Zero Two Plot Holes

[jetman91]

my memory may be foggy, its admittedly been awhile since ive watched 02, but im certain the first time augumon pops up he is greymon and not augumon. again, its been awhile. i might be thinking of later in the season, i know there was a point where the season 1 partners stayed at the champion level for a stretch of episodes and thought it was the beginning of the season

No we see him as an Agumon first.

guess i need to brush up on 02 a bit just gives me more of a reason to rewatch the first 2 seasons

Yeah I think Agumon is one of the first characters we saw in the premiere episode of 02.

 

[Fenrys]

my memory may be foggy, its admittedly been awhile since ive watched 02, but im certain the first time augumon pops up he is greymon and not augumon. again, its been awhile. i might be thinking of later in the season, i know there was a point where the season 1 partners stayed at the champion level for a stretch of episodes and thought it was the beginning of the season

No we see him as an Agumon first.

guess i need to brush up on 02 a bit just gives me more of a reason to rewatch the first 2 seasons

Yeah I think Agumon is one of the first characters we saw in the premiere episode of 02.

there is a point though where he evolves to greymon and stays for a bit right? or am i misremembering that too? its been years since ive seen that season

 

[DontStopPataPata]

^iirc he evolved into Greymon at the end of episode 4, the same episode that established they could evolve if the dark tower in the area was destroyed. He’s still Greymon the next time we see him in episode 9.

 

[Fenrys]

^iirc he evolved into Greymon at the end of episode 4, the same episode that established they could evolve if the dark tower in the area was destroyed. He’s still Greymon the next time we see him in episode 9.

ok, thats what i was thinking of then, thanks for helping to clear the cobwebs haha

 

[jetman91]

^iirc he evolved into Greymon at the end of episode 4, the same episode that established they could evolve if the dark tower in the area was destroyed. He’s still Greymon the next time we see him in episode 9.

This^^

Not only is it established that the original 8 could not Digivolve to champion due to the dark towers, but their children gave up their crests prior to 02 to heal the digital world. Thus they couldn't digivolve to ultimate or mega before 02. So the only thing left to prevent is digivolving to champion.

 

[Fenrys]

^iirc he evolved into Greymon at the end of episode 4, the same episode that established they could evolve if the dark tower in the area was destroyed. He’s still Greymon the next time we see him in episode 9.

This^^

Not only is it established that the original 8 could not Digivolve to champion due to the dark towers, but their children gave up their crests prior to 02 to heal the digital world. Thus they couldn't digivolve to ultimate or mega before 02. So the only thing left to prevent is digivolving to champion.

i honestly never liked that retcon in the middle of 02, the end of season 1 established that the crests were a part of them, not something that could be taken or destroyed, so it makes even less sense to me that that power, which is an inherent part of them not given by homeostasis or the digital world (the crests were meant to draw power from the childs dominant personality trait), so it makes no sense to me that that power could be given away

 

[Xadhoom]

i honestly never liked that retcon in the middle of 02, the end of season 1 established that the crests were a part of them, not something that could be taken or destroyed, so it makes even less sense to me that that power, which is an inherent part of them not given by homeostasis or the digital world (the crests were meant to draw power from the childs dominant personality trait), so it makes no sense to me that that power could be given away

That the power of the Crests which serves for fuel for partner evolutions can also be used to fuel another thing (a magical barrier) is not that weird, though.

 

[Fenrys]

i honestly never liked that retcon in the middle of 02, the end of season 1 established that the crests were a part of them, not something that could be taken or destroyed, so it makes even less sense to me that that power, which is an inherent part of them not given by homeostasis or the digital world (the crests were meant to draw power from the childs dominant personality trait), so it makes no sense to me that that power could be given away

That the power of the Crests which serves for fuel for partner evolutions can also be used to fuel another thing (a magical barrier) is not that weird, though.

no, the weird part is that what is essentially an inherent part of the childrens soul/personality/being/whatever you want to call it could be removed to act as said power source. the power of the crests wasn't some outside power source given to the children, it was the children themselves

 

[jetman91]

i honestly never liked that retcon in the middle of 02, the end of season 1 established that the crests were a part of them, not something that could be taken or destroyed, so it makes even less sense to me that that power, which is an inherent part of them not given by homeostasis or the digital world (the crests were meant to draw power from the childs dominant personality trait), so it makes no sense to me that that power could be given away

That the power of the Crests which serves for fuel for partner evolutions can also be used to fuel another thing (a magical barrier) is not that weird, though.

no, the weird part is that what is essentially an inherent part of the childrens soul/personality/being/whatever you want to call it could be removed to act as said power source. the power of the crests wasn't some outside power source given to the children, it was the children themselves

It was a moot point anyhow. Tri shows they can go into those forms without much explanation as to why. And Azulongmon gifting them the powers makes no real sense, and they gave them up to Imperialdramon anyhow. So their ability to reach ultimate and mega in Tri is nothing but because they can. I like 02, but the more I think about the more likelihood this has done to tarnish Digimon's IP more than anything that came after grows as an opinion of mine.

 

[Theigno]

I feel like Vamdemon and Wizarmon being ghost should have established Digimon who die in the real world don’t get reborn/sent to the dark world. Even if it took Tri to spell the rule out for people.

Ghosts don't establish anything, especially if it's a ghost of something that (as the novelization clarifies) wasn't even originally a Digimon in the first place and the ghost of a Digimon of which it was implied that at least part of its data did find its way back to the digital world, as he was part of Apocalymon's collection of dead villain data.

Didn’t Lopmon appear in the end credits?

A general title card visual is something that I don't really think impacts continuity just as general events shown in openings and endings don't (Like the vague reunion of Greymon and Taichi at the end of movie 1)

no, the weird part is that what is essentially an inherent part of the childrens soul/personality/being/whatever you want to call it could be removed to act as said power source. the power of the crests wasn't some outside power source given to the children, it was the children themselves

They explained in the very same episode that that wasn't what happened though. They still have the crests, they just sacrificed the ability to activate them. Think of it as a system reallocating resources from a process that's no longer used to another one.

Tri shows they can go into those forms without much explanation as to why. And Azulongmon gifting them the powers makes no real sense, and they gave them up to Imperialdramon anyhow. So their ability to reach ultimate and mega in Tri is nothing but because they can.

...That they eventually might regain the powers of Super Evolution over time was also pointed out in zero two, so this is just a contradiction that never existed.

 

[Xadhoom]

no, the weird part is that what is essentially an inherent part of the childrens soul/personality/being/whatever you want to call it could be removed to act as said power source. the power of the crests wasn't some outside power source given to the children, it was the children themselves

To try reiterating what I just said for clarity:

Think of the Crests as a mana meter where they use 50/100/200 MP to cast Champion/Perfect/Mega, then all of it to cast Barrier.

It was a moot point anyhow. Tri shows they can go into those forms without much explanation as to why.

Accordingly, Tri is a point where their mana's replenished enough for this, as 02 explained it would.

 

[Fenrys]

no, the weird part is that what is essentially an inherent part of the childrens soul/personality/being/whatever you want to call it could be removed to act as said power source. the power of the crests wasn't some outside power source given to the children, it was the children themselves

To try reiterating what I just said for clarity:

Think of the Crests as a mana meter where they use 50/100/200 MP to cast Champion/Perfect/Mega, then all of it to cast Barrier.

It was a moot point anyhow. Tri shows they can go into those forms without much explanation as to why.

Accordingly, Tri is a point where their mana's replenished enough for this, as 02 explained it would.

that explaination does make sense

 

[Chisana Minamoto]

That’s untrue. We’ve heard directly from the people involved that Konaka was just called in to do a one-off Lovecraftian episode.

I remember that Konaka and a few people threatened to leave. Even Konaka himself should have said it. And WK himself should have been involved. I read it years ago. So, the truth may be in the middle. Maybe Konaka was really supposed to work on more than one episode and maybe other people planned only one episode.

None of that ever happened, to any degree.

You mean the news about it was kind of like a fan fake?

 

[DontStopPataPata]

...That they eventually might regain the powers of Super Evolution over time was also pointed out in zero two, so this is just a contradiction that never existed.

Not only that, but if you count Diablomon’s Counterattack they must have regained the ability a few months after the battle with BelialVamdemon because Tailmon is able to super evolve into Angewomon again and Gabumon is able to warp evolve to Metalgarurumon.


“We’ll be able to super evolve again someday” always seemed like an open acknowledgment that they were only being nerfed to justify a need for jogress evolution. Since Tri was refocusing on the 1999 team of course they were gonna have full access to their Digimon evolutions. They didn’t need to be knocked down to make the 2002 team seem needed.

 

[TMS]

@Chisana
Yeah, basically. People making up explanations for things they found confusing.

 

[VanChizzle]

for the kokomon being reborn stuff, as far as i know that only happened in the dub, in the original version he's dead

if movie 3 is considered canon then the easiest explanation for patamon and tailmon reaching the ultimate level is that cherubimon was warping reality to the point where anything was possible

In the original version of the movie Chocomon was shown as being reborn as well, hence the confusion.

Movie 3 isnÂ’t really canon so it doesnÂ’t have to follow the rules. Besides at the time movie 3 came out (in between episode 14 and 15) nothing really said they couldnÂ’t evolve to Ultimate. The only established rule was that the dark towers in the Digital World blocked normal evolution.

Whether it's canon or not is sort of subjective I feel... I mean, it's not like any of the creators have ever come out and said it wasn't, plus the fact that they referred to one of the characters again (Wallace) in a CD drama later feels that it wasn't meant to be just a one-time bizarro world happening.

What gets me is just that there was really no plausible explanation for how they were able to evolve to Seraphimon and Holydramon out of the blue, other than maybe "Cherubimon's alternate reality makes anything possible".

Most of the drama cds are just for fun and I donÂ’t think are meant to be taken seriously. Like Agumon dark evolving into Skullgreymon because nobody liking his comedy act.

I feel that the end part of that CD drama was definitely just for fun, what with them evolving into all sorts of fake Digimon... Just that the tone of the CD drama mostly felt like it was for real overall.

 

[DontStopPataPata]

Whether it's canon or not is sort of subjective I feel... I mean, it's not like any of the creators have ever come out and said it wasn't, plus the fact that they referred to one of the characters again (Wallace) in a CD drama later feels that it wasn't meant to be just a one-time bizarro world happening.

The creators don’t need to come out and say its non-canon.

1. Wallace simply doesn’t exist in the tv series. He’s in one audio drama but those tend to be just for fun or not too concerned about continuity. All that means is that audio drama takes place in whatever timeline movie 3 takes place in. There is no mention of Wallace (outside the dub which tries so hard to fit in with the main timeline) even when Daisuke travels to his home state of New York in the Christmas World Tour campaign.

2. Assuming this movie takes place around its release date (between episode 14 and 15) then Daisuke and company should know what the golden digimental is in episode 20. If it takes place between episode 21 and 22 then Daisuke should know what the golden digimental is in the movie (he says “these are ours?” But we are to assume, if movie 3 is canon and between episode 21 and 22 he’s just recently used it). Both times are treated as the first time. At any rate Quinlongmon in his exposition dump episode only bothers to explain the one in the series and never thinks to explain this holy phenomenon.

3. Angemon and Angewomon know they can evolve to Ultimate. And no Cherubimon’s lonely heart warping reality and causing time to go back would not make them stronger. That has always been a terrible fanwank of the highest order.

What gets me is just that there was really no plausible explanation for how they were able to evolve to Seraphimon and Holydramon out of the blue

The explanation of course is that the movie wasn’t beholden to what the tv series did. The movie was its own independent side story roughly based on what was going on in the show at the time (kids on summer vacation, new kids can only armor evolve, Takeru and Hikari had access to their Digimon evolutions outside dark tower area) Angemon and Angewomon could probably evolve to Ultimate in the movie because at the time nothing said they couldn’t, the series was focused on armor evolutions at the time.


Movie 3 has its own plot holes (the writers seem to have no clue how far Colorado is from New York, Wallace keeps calling Terriermon the wrong name, this American kid keeps speaking Japanese to his American mother) but anything it contradicts or the series later contradicts is just a byproduct of the movie being made as an independent standalone story that wasn’t bogged by what the show was doing or would do.

 

[The Chaos Entity]

Whether it's canon or not is sort of subjective I feel... I mean, it's not like any of the creators have ever come out and said it wasn't, plus the fact that they referred to one of the characters again (Wallace) in a CD drama later feels that it wasn't meant to be just a one-time bizarro world happening.

The creators don’t need to come out and say its non-canon.

1. Wallace simply doesn’t exist in the tv series. He’s in one audio drama but those tend to be just for fun or not too concerned about continuity. All that means is that audio drama takes place in whatever timeline movie 3 takes place in. There is no mention of Wallace (outside the dub which tries so hard to fit in with the main timeline) even when Daisuke travels to his home state of New York in the Christmas World Tour campaign.

2. Assuming this movie takes place around its release date (between episode 14 and 15) then Daisuke and company should know what the golden digimental is in episode 20. If it takes place between episode 21 and 22 then Daisuke should know what the golden digimental is in the movie (he says “these are ours?” But we are to assume, if movie 3 is canon and between episode 21 and 22 he’s just recently used it). Both times are treated as the first time. At any rate Quinlongmon in his exposition dump episode only bothers to explain the one in the series and never thinks to explain this holy phenomenon.

3. Angemon and Angewomon know they can evolve to Ultimate. And no Cherubimon’s lonely heart warping reality and causing time to go back would not make them stronger. That has always been a terrible fanwank of the highest order.

What gets me is just that there was really no plausible explanation for how they were able to evolve to Seraphimon and Holydramon out of the blue

The explanation of course is that the movie wasn’t beholden to what the tv series did. The movie was its own independent side story roughly based on what was going on in the show at the time (kids on summer vacation, new kids can only armor evolve, Takeru and Hikari had access to their Digimon evolutions outside dark tower area) Angemon and Angewomon could probably evolve to Ultimate in the movie because at the time nothing said they couldn’t, the series was focused on armor evolutions at the time.


Movie 3 has its own plot holes (the writers seem to have no clue how far Colorado is from New York, Wallace keeps calling Terriermon the wrong name, this American kid keeps speaking Japanese to his American mother) but anything it contradicts or the series later contradicts is just a byproduct of the movie being made as an independent standalone story that wasn’t bogged by what the show was doing or would do.

Calling Terriermon Gummymon isn’t a plot hole - he doesn’t understand how evolution works, so he just goes with the names they’ve had when he met them. That’s why he only uses Kokomon too.

 

[DontStopPataPata]

Terriermon has words that comes out of his mouth. As some point he would of had to say “Yo Wally it’s Terriermon now”

 

[Theigno]

Terriermon has words that comes out of his mouth. As some point he would of had to say “Yo Wally it’s Terriermon now”

Again, that he doesn't do that is not a plot hole, but a character trait.