Zero Two Plot Holes

DontStopPataPata

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I believe the only thing we had confirmed was changed in season 2’s preplanning was originally Oikawa was suppose to act independently as the series big bad before it was forced in to have Vamdemon pulling the strings. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong.I’m also not convinced jogress was planned in the beginning. The fact that we don’t find out the original Digimon can’t evolve to perfect anymore (including Tailmon who acted like she could multiple times before episode 26) until the same story arc that introduces jogress evolution is suspect. Makes me think the jogress evolution was a mandate Bandai forced on Toei.
I recall a fascinating theory that the intent was for Armour Digivolution to continue to be the big thing. That, rather that Digivolving into ExVeemon being Veemon's next stage, it would be Armour Digivolving with the Digi-Eggs of Courage and Friendship together, and ditto with Hawkmon and Armadillomon with combining their Armour forms. This is why Sagittarimon looks like Flamedramon and Raidramon combined - the design was completed before the change, and so re-purposed as Veemon + Hope. Presumably Hawkmon and Armadillomon's combined Armour forms were never finished. I also don't recall what the theory stated would happen to Patamon, Gatomon, or Wormmon. I think theywere always going to use natural Digivolution? After all, Wormmon is the only one of the Zero Two-introduced partners to have a canon Ultimate Level form from the card games and such - JewelBeemon. So maybe the whole 'giving up the Crests' thing was a rewrite, TK and Kari were going to use them to regain usage of MagnaAngemon and Angewomon, and Ken was to use his to get Wormmon to JewelBeemon?
That makes a lot of sense. Especially with how pointless the crest of kindness ultimately ended up being. IThe seams really showed in episode 26. Oh hey Gatomon can’t digivolve anymore? Even though she tried two episodes ago but somehow always she couldn’t? Did you know Angemon, who was used sparingly in Adventure because he was so strong, actually kind of sucks and is just really good against dark digimon? I fee like they should have found ways to keep TK and Kari out of the action until Davis, Yolei, and Cody’s Digimon reached an an equivalent to Ultimate. That way you could avoid “Why doesn’t MagnaAngemon and Angewomon just take care of everything?” issue without nerfing them. You
 

jetman91

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I believe the only thing we had confirmed was changed in season 2’s preplanning was originally Oikawa was suppose to act independently as the series big bad before it was forced in to have Vamdemon pulling the strings. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong.I’m also not convinced jogress was planned in the beginning. The fact that we don’t find out the original Digimon can’t evolve to perfect anymore (including Tailmon who acted like she could multiple times before episode 26) until the same story arc that introduces jogress evolution is suspect. Makes me think the jogress evolution was a mandate Bandai forced on Toei.
I recall a fascinating theory that the intent was for Armour Digivolution to continue to be the big thing. That, rather that Digivolving into ExVeemon being Veemon's next stage, it would be Armour Digivolving with the Digi-Eggs of Courage and Friendship together, and ditto with Hawkmon and Armadillomon with combining their Armour forms. This is why Sagittarimon looks like Flamedramon and Raidramon combined - the design was completed before the change, and so re-purposed as Veemon + Hope. Presumably Hawkmon and Armadillomon's combined Armour forms were never finished. I also don't recall what the theory stated would happen to Patamon, Gatomon, or Wormmon. I think theywere always going to use natural Digivolution? After all, Wormmon is the only one of the Zero Two-introduced partners to have a canon Ultimate Level form from the card games and such - JewelBeemon. So maybe the whole 'giving up the Crests' thing was a rewrite, TK and Kari were going to use them to regain usage of MagnaAngemon and Angewomon, and Ken was to use his to get Wormmon to JewelBeemon?
That makes a lot of sense. Especially with how pointless the crest of kindness ultimately ended up being. IThe seams really showed in episode 26. Oh hey Gatomon can’t digivolve anymore? Even though she tried two episodes ago but somehow always she couldn’t? Did you know Angemon, who was used sparingly in Adventure because he was so strong, actually kind of sucks and is just really good against dark digimon? I fee like they should have found ways to keep TK and Kari out of the action until Davis, Yolei, and Cody’s Digimon reached an an equivalent to Ultimate. That way you could avoid “Why doesn’t MagnaAngemon and Angewomon just take care of everything?” issue without nerfing them. You

All that considered I would be down with a remake of 02. It had so much potential, but suffered from too many cooks in the kitchen.
 

Fenrys

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I'm sure it has been mentioned before but I don't have time to go back and search for it. The fact that Tailmon is in this mode for the majority of her time in 02 makes no sense considering she is an adult/champion form during which the Czar/Emperor is in power with his dark towers blocking the evolution of champion or higher evolution forms. She also lost her holy ring that arguably would have protected her from the tower affects (theoretically, but not not established canon as far as I know). She should have been in Plotmon form for the majority of the first arc of 02, just without the holy ring collar.
not necessarily, remember that all of the season 1 digimon started season 2 as champions, having digivolved naturally during the time between season 1 and 2, even with control spires around
 

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remember that all of the season 1 digimon started season 2 as champions, having digivolved naturally during the time between season 1 and 2, even with control spires around
You must have been watching an alternate universe version of 02 because that never happened.
 

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I'm sure it has been mentioned before but I don't have time to go back and search for it. The fact that Tailmon is in this mode for the majority of her time in 02 makes no sense considering she is an adult/champion form during which the Czar/Emperor is in power with his dark towers blocking the evolution of champion or higher evolution forms. She also lost her holy ring that arguably would have protected her from the tower affects (theoretically, but not not established canon as far as I know). She should have been in Plotmon form for the majority of the first arc of 02, just without the holy ring collar.
not necessarily, remember that all of the season 1 digimon started season 2 as champions, having digivolved naturally during the time between season 1 and 2, even with control spires around
No they didn’t start as champions in season 2. They were all re-introduced as rookies.It was established the non-Gatomon Digimon couldn’t digivolve with control spires around. They apparently could do it without their human partners but it would still have to be in an area with no control spires. Gatomon could maintain her champion form because that was her default stage. No different than Leomon or Wizardmon.I do think they should have made Gatomon go back to Salamon as that would have made more sense than “Gatomon accidentally lost her tail ring and is now only as strong as a rookie but conveniently this digimental of light will make her as strong as a champion again” The problem is Toei still wants Gatomon to be Kari’s Digimon because that’s who kids associate Kari with but she can’t be as strong as a champion anymore because then she wouldn’t need to armor digivolve.
 

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my memory may be foggy, its admittedly been awhile since ive watched 02, but im certain the first time augumon pops up he is greymon and not augumon. again, its been awhile. i might be thinking of later in the season, i know there was a point where the season 1 partners stayed at the champion level for a stretch of episodes and thought it was the beginning of the season
 
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Chisana Minamoto

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That’s untrue. We’ve heard directly from the people involved that Konaka was just called in to do a one-off Lovecraftian episode.
I remember that Konaka and a few people threatened to leave. Even Konaka himself should have said it. And WK himself should have been involved. I read it years ago. So, the truth may be in the middle. Maybe Konaka was really supposed to work on more than one episode and maybe other people planned only one episode.
 

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my memory may be foggy, its admittedly been awhile since ive watched 02, but im certain the first time augumon pops up he is greymon and not augumon. again, its been awhile. i might be thinking of later in the season, i know there was a point where the season 1 partners stayed at the champion level for a stretch of episodes and thought it was the beginning of the season
No we see him as an Agumon first.
 

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my memory may be foggy, its admittedly been awhile since ive watched 02, but im certain the first time augumon pops up he is greymon and not augumon. again, its been awhile. i might be thinking of later in the season, i know there was a point where the season 1 partners stayed at the champion level for a stretch of episodes and thought it was the beginning of the season
No we see him as an Agumon first.
guess i need to brush up on 02 a bit :) just gives me more of a reason to rewatch the first 2 seasons
 

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That’s untrue. We’ve heard directly from the people involved that Konaka was just called in to do a one-off Lovecraftian episode.
I remember that Konaka and a few people threatened to leave. Even Konaka himself should have said it. And WK himself should have been involved. I read it years ago. So, the truth may be in the middle. Maybe Konaka was really supposed to work on more than one episode and maybe other people planned only one episode.
None of that ever happened, to any degree.
 

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For me most of the plot holes in 02 stem from Movie 3 and the first 2 CD dramas.

In Hurricane Touchdown:
- How do Patamon and Tailmon get to evolve to Ultimate without any outside help or a visible energy source of some kind when they've never been able to reach that stage before?
- Also, why is Chocomon reborn on the spot when it's been established that Digimon die permanently in the Human World?

In Michi e no Armor Shinka:
- How did Pukumon manage to transport a Dark Tower from wherever into the midst of freaking Ginza in Tokyo, when he was never shown as being to tap into the powers of darkness that the Kaiser presumably needed to do the same thing?
- Why were the Chosen suddenly able to use each other's Digimentals to evolve when they had not gone through the same process of self-realization that they previously went through early on in the series in order to activate their assigned Digimentals? For instance, when did Daisuke learn the true meaning of Hope so that Veemon could evolve to Sagittarimon?

In Natsu e no Tobira:
- Wallace and Gummimon saying that Chocomon was dead after all makes more sense, even though it contradicts the ending of Movie 3. So this was probably a retcon then?
- Why is Nat-chan reborn on the spot in the Human World - again! - after she dies? This part is probably what gets me the most. After making it absolutely CLEAR that a character in a previous movie didn't come back after dying in the Human World, now Nat-chan is shown as being reborn into an egg despite ALSO dying in the Human World - in the exact same circumstances! The internal consistency here is just something else...

Other than that, I didn't really have too many issues with the anime itself. A lot of the things we gripe about are either poorly written or just not explained but you can come up with a reasonable explanation for a lot of them. It's only when you throw in media outside of the anime that it gets all out of whack...
 

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For me most of the plot holes in 02 stem from Movie 3 and the first 2 CD dramas.

In Hurricane Touchdown:
- How do Patamon and Tailmon get to evolve to Ultimate without any outside help or a visible energy source of some kind when they've never been able to reach that stage before?
- Also, why is Chocomon reborn on the spot when it's been established that Digimon die permanently in the Human World?

In Michi e no Armor Shinka:
- How did Pukumon manage to transport a Dark Tower from wherever into the midst of freaking Ginza in Tokyo, when he was never shown as being to tap into the powers of darkness that the Kaiser presumably needed to do the same thing?
- Why were the Chosen suddenly able to use each other's Digimentals to evolve when they had not gone through the same process of self-realization that they previously went through early on in the series in order to activate their assigned Digimentals? For instance, when did Daisuke learn the true meaning of Hope so that Veemon could evolve to Sagittarimon?

In Natsu e no Tobira:
- Wallace and Gummimon saying that Chocomon was dead after all makes more sense, even though it contradicts the ending of Movie 3. So this was probably a retcon then?
- Why is Nat-chan reborn on the spot in the Human World - again! - after she dies? This part is probably what gets me the most. After making it absolutely CLEAR that a character in a previous movie didn't come back after dying in the Human World, now Nat-chan is shown as being reborn into an egg despite ALSO dying in the Human World - in the exact same circumstances! The internal consistency here is just something else...

Other than that, I didn't really have too many issues with the anime itself. A lot of the things we gripe about are either poorly written or just not explained but you can come up with a reasonable explanation for a lot of them. It's only when you throw in media outside of the anime that it gets all out of whack...
for the kokomon being reborn stuff, as far as i know that only happened in the dub, in the original version he's dead

if movie 3 is considered canon then the easiest explanation for patamon and tailmon reaching the ultimate level is that cherubimon was warping reality to the point where anything was possible
 

DontStopPataPata

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For me most of the plot holes in 02 stem from Movie 3 and the first 2 CD dramas.

In Hurricane Touchdown:
- How do Patamon and Tailmon get to evolve to Ultimate without any outside help or a visible energy source of some kind when they've never been able to reach that stage before?
- Also, why is Chocomon reborn on the spot when it's been established that Digimon die permanently in the Human World?
Movie 3 isn’t really canon so it doesn’t have to follow the rules. Besides at the time movie 3 came out (in between episode 14 and 15) nothing really said they couldn’t evolve to Ultimate. The only established rule was that the dark towers in the Digital World blocked normal evolution.

- How did Pukumon manage to transport a Dark Tower from wherever into the midst of freaking Ginza in Tokyo, when he was never shown as being to tap into the powers of darkness that the Kaiser presumably needed to do the same thing?
- Why were the Chosen suddenly able to use each other's Digimentals to evolve when they had not gone through the same process of self-realization that they previously went through early on in the series in order to activate their assigned Digimentals? For instance, when did Daisuke learn the true meaning of Hope so that Veemon could evolve to Sagittarimon?
Most of the drama cds are just for fun and I don’t think are meant to be taken seriously. Like Agumon dark evolving into Skullgreymon because nobody liking his comedy act.

In Natsu e no Tobira:
- Wallace and Gummimon saying that Chocomon was dead after all makes more sense, even though it contradicts the ending of Movie 3. So this was probably a retcon then?
Probably yeah
 

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i feel like tri at least supports the idea that movie 3 could be canon because of its use of holydramon as tailmons ultimate over ophanimon, not much of a case mind you, but they could have chosen to completely ignore it and decided not to.
 

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i feel like tri at least supports the idea that movie 3 could be canon because of its use of holydramon as tailmons ultimate over ophanimon, not much of a case mind you, but they could have chosen to completely ignore it and decided not to.
Eh until 2009 Holydramon was counted as Tailmon’s official canon Ultimate. Pretty sure the Wonderswan games also associated her with Holydramon. And the pendulum series that seemed the general basis for the Adventures kids Digimon also had Holydramon as Angewomon’s evolution.

I know Ophanimon as an Ultimate for the Tailmon line existed since 2002 but the PSP game was the first time Hikari’s Tailmon was given Ophanimon as an Ultimate.

I don’t think Tri giving Angewomon’s “official main series” Ultimate as Holydramon is some sort of acknowledgement that movie 3 happened in the main timeline. Just hey this form had been more associated with this Digimon.

I’m more surprised Toei decided to “canonize” Vikemon as Gomamon’s Ultimate. Most of the supplementary stuff gave him Plesiomon and pre-PSP Vikemon was associated as Shakkoumon’s Ultimate.
 

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i feel like tri at least supports the idea that movie 3 could be canon because of its use of holydramon as tailmons ultimate over ophanimon, not much of a case mind you, but they could have chosen to completely ignore it and decided not to.
Eh until 2009 Holydramon was counted as Tailmon’s official canon Ultimate. Pretty sure the Wonderswan games also associated her with Holydramon. And the pendulum series that seemed the general basis for the Adventures kids Digimon also had Holydramon as Angewomon’s evolution.

I know Ophanimon as an Ultimate for the Tailmon line existed since 2002 but the PSP game was the first time Hikari’s Tailmon was given Ophanimon as an Ultimate.

I don’t think Tri giving Angewomon’s “official main series” Ultimate as Holydramon is some sort of acknowledgement that movie 3 happened in the main timeline. Just hey this form had been more associated with this Digimon.

I’m more surprised Toei decided to “canonize” Vikemon as Gomamon’s Ultimate. Most of the supplementary stuff gave him Plesiomon and pre-PSP Vikemon was associated as Shakkoumon’s Ultimate.
thats kind of my point though, they changed one digimons "canon" ultimate, so if they wanted to distance themselves from movie 3 and clarify its canon/non canon status they could have. instead its left a bit ambiguous. like i said, its not much of a case for it, just kind of my own thinking on it. plus my idea of digimon canon is all sorts of screwy since im more dub based in my info which does treat movie 3 as canon
 

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i feel like tri at least supports the idea that movie 3 could be canon because of its use of holydramon as tailmons ultimate over ophanimon, not much of a case mind you, but they could have chosen to completely ignore it and decided not to.
i feel like tri at least supports the idea that movie 3 could be canon because of its use of holydramon as tailmons ultimate over ophanimon, not much of a case mind you, but they could have chosen to completely ignore it and decided not to.
Eh until 2009 Holydramon was counted as Tailmon’s official canon Ultimate. Pretty sure the Wonderswan games also associated her with Holydramon. And the pendulum series that seemed the general basis for the Adventures kids Digimon also had Holydramon as Angewomon’s evolution.

I know Ophanimon as an Ultimate for the Tailmon line existed since 2002 but the PSP game was the first time Hikari’s Tailmon was given Ophanimon as an Ultimate.

I don’t think Tri giving Angewomon’s “official main series” Ultimate as Holydramon is some sort of acknowledgement that movie 3 happened in the main timeline. Just hey this form had been more associated with this Digimon.

I’m more surprised Toei decided to “canonize” Vikemon as Gomamon’s Ultimate. Most of the supplementary stuff gave him Plesiomon and pre-PSP Vikemon was associated as Shakkoumon’s Ultimate.
thats kind of my point though, they changed one digimons "canon" ultimate, so if they wanted to distance themselves from movie 3 and clarify its canon/non canon status they could have. instead its left a bit ambiguous. like i said, its not much of a case for it, just kind of my own thinking on it. plus my idea of digimon canon is all sorts of screwy since im more dub based in my info which does treat movie 3 as canon
I also don’t think Toei and Bandai care about canon and continuity as much as we the fans do. Maybe Holydramon appearing in movie 3 influenced their decision to use Holydramon since there was a non-video game precedent. I just don’t think using Holydramon is a way of saying “Yes movie 3 happened in the series timeline!” especially since there are far more contradictions in movie 3.

Heck, since you mention it even though the Saban dub is canon to its series. It doesn’t work either. How did Angemon know they could digivolve to their mega forms? How can a Digimon be part virus if a 1/3rd of Digimon are virus types? If the thing that become Diaboromon infected Kokomon and was then destroyed by the golden armor digimon how was Diaboromon still on the net in “Revenge of Diaboromon” ?
 

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Generally… I think even among people who assume that movie 3 is canon not many would vouch for the Drama CDs being in-continuity in the first place so much of that is a moot point.

- Also, why is Chocomon reborn on the spot when it's been established that Digimon die permanently in the Human World?
I mean it’s kind of a dick move for claiming something to be a continuity error, when back then that didn’t contradict anything, as the lack of rebirth in the human world was only officially established in tri.

Why were the Chosen suddenly able to use each other's Digimentals to evolve when they had not gone through the same process of self-realization that they previously went through early on in the series in order to activate their assigned Digimentals? For instance, when did Daisuke learn the true meaning of Hope so that Veemon could evolve to Sagittarimon?
While the Drama itself has much more extreme reasons for being discounted (Daisuke literally evolves into the Digimon Kaiser for one), I don’t think them using each other’s Digimentals is a problem at all. After all they only needed those virtues to move and store the eggs initially, but after being activated and stored in the D-terminal they could have been completely usable by anyone. Sure, they didn’t do that in the anime, but we also didn’t see anyone try and fail to do it, so there’s no really any evidence to the contrary either.

for the kokomon being reborn stuff, as far as i know that only happened in the dub, in the original version he's dead
I don’t know how the dub handled it, but in the original we see a Digimon egg, which people assume to be Chocomon’s and from that they assume that he was reborn.
We don’t see that it is Chocomon, we don’t even see if it’s in the human world at all. And we don’t see it hatch. For all we know it never ended up hatching. Or maybe it hatched into something else. There’s no way to tell. But people wanted it to mean Chocomons 100% successful rebirth so desperately that they claim it to be canon despite there not being proof.
There’s no retcon in clarifying that something people merely wanted to happen didn’t happen.

if movie 3 is considered canon then the easiest explanation for patamon and tailmon reaching the ultimate level is that cherubimon was warping reality to the point where anything was possible
That argument never really made sense since in all other instances Cherubimon’s powers had literally the opposite effect.

Most of the drama cds are just for fun and I don’t think are meant to be taken seriously. Like Agumon dark evolving into Skullgreymon because nobody liking his comedy act.
The SkullGreymon CD drama is a different case, as its non-canonicity is established in-story.
While I wouldn’t count Michi e no Armor Shinka personally I wouldn’t fault anyone for not excluding it just because is silly because so is much of Zero Two.

I know Ophanimon as an Ultimate for the Tailmon line existed since 2002 but the PSP game was the first time Hikari’s Tailmon was given Ophanimon as an Ultimate.
Battle Spirit 1.5 already explicitly featured Hikari’s Tailmon with Ophanimon.

thats kind of my point though, they changed one digimons "canon" ultimate, so if they wanted to distance themselves from movie 3 and clarify its canon/non canon status they could have.
The question here is why the tri staff would feel the need to distance themselves from anything in the first place.
 

Fenrys

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The question here is why the tri staff would feel the need to distance themselves from anything in the first place.
they already distanced themselves from established material by making vikemon the ultimate of gomamon and they also had angewoman dark digivolve to ophanimon fallen mode, given that, it would have made more sense thematically if her pure ultimate was ophanimon, instead they chose to stay consistent with what was shown in movie 3. thats the only point i was trying to make with that
 

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, as the lack of rebirth in the human world was only officially established in tri.
I feel like Vamdemon and Wizarmon being ghost should have established Digimon who die in the real world don’t get reborn/sent to the dark world. Even if it took Tri to spell the rule out for people.

I don’t know how the dub handled it, but in the original we see a Digimon egg, which people assume to be Chocomon’s and from that they assume that he was reborn.
The dub had “Kokomon” hatch as Endigomon, it’s champion form. (Using footage from earlier in the movie) Which, setting aside the obvious issue with an adult stage Digimon hatching from a Digimon egg, according to the dub that’s not even suppose to be Kokomon’s champion stage but a mutation of the virus. Of course Saban really proved they don’t know their own series.

We don’t see that it is Chocomon, we don’t even see if it’s in the human world at all. And we don’t see it hatch. For all we know it never ended up hatching. Or maybe it hatched into something else. There’s no way to tell. But people wanted it to mean Chocomons 100% successful rebirth so desperately that they claim it to be canon despite there not being proof.
There’s no retcon in clarifying that something people merely wanted to happen didn’t happen.
Didn’t Lopmon appear in the end credits? I guess because it was only in the end credits it doesn’t count.

I will say though I’m pretty sure we did show in fact that the egg was in the river in the real world it didn’t have to be Chocomon. It could be a completely different Digimon for a completely different chosen child. Movie 3 was incredibly surreal as is.

That argument never really made sense since in all other instances Cherubimon’s powers had literally the opposite effect.
I never got that fan explanation either. Why would the warped reality representing the loneliness in Cherubimon’s heart make two other Digimon much stronger? As is Angemon and Angewomon just could evolve because the movie played by its own rules and hey at the time nothing said they couldn’t evolve to Ultimate. They had no way to in the Digital World at the time (dark towers and all) and the series hadn’t established the loss of the ability to super evolve yet. So theoretically, between Adventure and Zero Two they could have gained the ability.


Battle Spirit 1.5 already explicitly featured Hikari’s Tailmon with Ophanimon.
Ah. My mistake. Still there was a precedent for both. Tri just went with Holydramon. Both Ophanimon and Holydramon are still Hikari’s canon ultimate (canon in the sense anything officially released by Toei or Bandai is canon not in a continuity sense)
 
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