Will Appmon redefine the Digimon franchise as a whole?

Gigamon23

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First is that Appmon's monster design is not a major upheaval for the series, put Shoutmon, Gumdramon andGatchmon all in a row and they wouldn't look out of place next to each other.
At the same time the original, to quote Bogleech:... heavy emphasis on 'monster' ...“'grotesque' organic detail... “usually frightening looking...” design approach started being supplemented and slowly replaced as early as the Pendulums.


There's still lots of beastly and scarred looking Digmon in the Pendulums but you also have often gold colored, rather clean looking Megas; even Perfects were starting to look a lot cleaner*. And if Touma is right in his D-1 articles,vaccine Digimon, the nicest looking of the bunch were the ones who were the most popular so the move to “clean sleek details, with a 'shiny new sports care' feel.” was just Digimon going with the flow. It can be a bit of a shame for those of us who like the older approach and feel it's more distinct and unique but Appmon is just another step in what has been a long series of steps away from the earliest design ethos, not a revolution.
This is exactly the beef that I've had with the series since the change in designs started taking a more dramatic shift in Savers, and especially in Xros Wars. Thanks for explaining it so well! It's interesting to think that it probably started with the Mega/Ultimate forms, but it totally makes sense.
 

Devimon4000

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This is exactly the beef that I've had with the series since the change in designs started taking a more dramatic shift in Savers, and especially in Xros Wars. Thanks for explaining it so well! It's interesting to think that it probably started with the Mega/Ultimate forms, but it totally makes sense.

Interesting I'd say most people tend topoint to late Tamers or Frontier as where the new style really started clearly taking over. I suppose it would be a question of where you see the breaking point from the oldest style is since there’s been a few style changes at this point, each building on the last.


Like for example Wargreymon can be seen as being within the original style himself well inspiring the direction for what came after, or could be seen as just full on in the second style Digimon took on.
 

Tetra Seleno

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Interesting I'd say most people tend topoint to late Tamers or Frontier as where the new style really started clearly taking over. I suppose it would be a question of where you see the breaking point from the oldest style is since there’s been a few style changes at this point, each building on the last.

Like for example Wargreymon can be seen as being within the original style himself well inspiring the direction for what came after, or could be seen as just full on in the second style Digimon took on.
Personally I thought the style changes in Savers and Xros Wars were more pronounced, with the emphasis on the digital (i.e., the mouse in Kamemon's stomach, the circuit designs on Kudamon's back) rather than the monstrous aspects of the characters, if that makes any sense.

I do think the character designs in Tamers and Frontier (particularly the humans) are more of an evolution of designs seen in Adventure/Zero Two, but I'm not an artist by any means so I could be blowing smoke here.
 

Devimon4000

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Interesting I'd say most people tend topoint to late Tamers or Frontier as where the new style really started clearly taking over. I suppose it would be a question of where you see the breaking point from the oldest style is since there’s been a few style changes at this point, each building on the last.

Like for example Wargreymon can be seen as being within the original style himself well inspiring the direction for what came after, or could be seen as just full on in the second style Digimon took on.
Personally I thought the style changes in Savers and Xros Wars were more pronounced, with the emphasis on the digital (i.e., the mouse in Kamemon's stomach, the circuit designs on Kudamon's back) rather than the monstrous aspects of the characters, if that makes any sense.

I do think the character designs in Tamers and Frontier (particularly the humans) are more of an evolution of designs seen in Adventure/Zero Two, but I'm not an artist by any means so I could be blowing smoke here.
Well that kind of brings up what I mean by lots of gradual changes have been going on all the time. Like Pegasmon vs Unimon, both are winged horses and both have a natural look to them, but Unimon has almost shrink wrapped skin and is covered in scars, well Pegasmon is very clean and healthy looking.


That's why I brought War Greymon up; compare him to the beastly but humanoid shaped goodly warrior of the original V-pets, Leomon. Well War still has some of the bulging veins there are fewer of them, and he has no scars. He's also wearing a lot more, and all his armor is in pristine shape. By later Tamers well maintained clothing will have started to become normal (just look at many of the devas) it will have become fully the norm by Frontier, along with the almost complete disappearance of bulging veins.


Sever takes that and builds the next change, digital like details is one, the others are even smother integration of cyborg parts and flesh (compare the very first pictures of Metal Greymon with Rize Greymon), child levels are softer and rounder, well higher levels are more angular and artificial,rather then the general organic lumps, for lack of a better phrase,that existed from Baby I to even early Megas in the V-pet and Pendulum days. But the modern Gundam looking Megas we tend to get from Royal Knights have their clear starting point in War Greymon even if you see him still being in the original style.

And again none of this is to say the changes are bad, its a cliche but Tamers is my favorite Digimon anime, and for me a lot of art style changes have already accumulated at that point. So I don't view "my personal preference in art style" as the end all be all of quality in well anything.
 
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flintlock

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Interesting I'd say most people tend topoint to late Tamers or Frontier as where the new style really started clearly taking over. I suppose it would be a question of where you see the breaking point from the oldest style is since there’s been a few style changes at this point, each building on the last.

Like for example Wargreymon can be seen as being within the original style himself well inspiring the direction for what came after, or could be seen as just full on in the second style Digimon took on.
Personally I thought the style changes in Savers and Xros Wars were more pronounced, with the emphasis on the digital (i.e., the mouse in Kamemon's stomach, the circuit designs on Kudamon's back) rather than the monstrous aspects of the characters, if that makes any sense.

I do think the character designs in Tamers and Frontier (particularly the humans) are more of an evolution of designs seen in Adventure/Zero Two, but I'm not an artist by any means so I could be blowing smoke here.

I feel like the biggest reason for the change in monster design was to turn them into toys. So MetalGarurumon and WarGreymon look the way they do because toys, Armours look the way they do because toys, etc. Also if they make them for the anime they ended up going away from the super detailed kaiju/godzilla thing because it was easier to animate. The Frontier Digimon had a lot in common with previous toy related anime, like Saint Seiyaa and even some SD Gundam toys. Now Appmon looks the way it does with SD forms and stuff because toys too, and IIRC there was a Gundam Toy that had a similar gimmick. It really depends on the gimmick they want to push.

I'm sure Appmon will end up with monsterous dinosaur Digimon, like we've seen Raidramon already. Xros Wars had Greymon which does look pretty detailed in its official art. MetalBirdramon and their fused form kind of ruin it though.

Also I had no idea Kamemon had a trackball in his stomach and a mouse shell. His tail is even the wire. That kind of just blew my mind. lol.
 
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Unknown Neo

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Oh hey, turning stuff to look easier to turn into toys is what they're doing to Ben 10. So that makes sense. Plus depending on the budget they can be easier to animate too.
 

Devimon4000

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I feel like the biggest reason for the change in monster design was to turn them into toys. So MetalGarurumon and WarGreymon look the way they do because toys, Armours look the way they do because toys, etc. Also if they make them for the anime they ended up going away from the super detailed kaiju/godzilla thing because it was easier to animate. The Frontier Digimon had a lot in common with previous toy related anime, like Saint Seiyaa and even some SD Gundam toys. Now Appmon looks the way it does with SD forms and stuff because toys too, and IIRC there was a Gundam Toy that had a similar gimmick. It really depends on the gimmick they want to push.

I'm sure Appmon will end up with monsterous dinosaur Digimon, like we've seen Raidramon already. Xros Wars had Greymon which does look pretty detailed in its official art. MetalBirdramon and their fused form kind of ruin it though.

Also I had no idea Kamemon had a trackball in his stomach and a mouse shell. His tail is even the wire. That kind of just blew my mind. lol.
I can defiantly see it with War Greymon given how well his Agumon to War Greymon toy lines up. Though it would have been only just starting to influence things towards the end of the Pendulum era*. Still I think the general popularity of shiny knight Digimon and the more human and clean demons along with the Mega level in general played a larger role in shaping things (Not to say we still don't get more monstrous designs, guys like Rust Tyranomon at least once per a new batch). The needs of the toys would have its greatest influence at the individual design level, popularity would shape things at the higher level. Though as always its hard to say where Appmon will end up given how we've only seen low level Appmon. Probably will keep the cleaner look but they might break away from knights and demons.






*Though speaking of the Pendulum era; I can't believe I just noticed what might be it's most unique aspect, how many of the designs are just derived from plain plants or animals rather creatures of myth or folklore and the like, with Nightmare Soldiers being the big exception. In the original V-pets many of the Adults have roots in the supernatural, well Perfects were again mostly cyborgs or just weird. In the Pendulums the supernatural design moves up to Perfects and Megas, but Perfects also have good number of plants and animals, and even in the first two Pendulums Megas can also be plain old beasts.
 
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flintlock

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" Probably will keep the cleaner look but they might break away from knights and demons."

Looking at the toys it looks like Raidramon, who is more of a Greymon/Vdramon/horned dinosaur/dragon type seems like he might be an evolution or something one of the main protagonists Digimon. No matter how weird Digimon gets they always find a way to add a big dinosaur/dragon like Greymon somehow. So yeah there's hope for more monsters as opposed to "AI" themed Digimon.
 

Gigamon23

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Wow. I took a look at some of the other designs for the Appmon monsters on Wikimon, and I'm liking them even less. :/ And the names aren't much better... So far Hackmon is still the best design out of the bunch.
http://wikimon.net/Category:Appmon
 

flintlock

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Wow. I took a look at some of the other designs for the Appmon monsters on Wikimon, and I'm liking them even less. :/ And the names aren't much better... So far Hackmon is still the best design out of the bunch.
http://wikimon.net/Category:Appmon

Yeah I prefer superior names like Demon the demon, Dogmon the dog and Tyranomon the Tyrannosaurus, Angemon the angel, etc. etc. etc. /s
 

Gigamon23

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Wow. I took a look at some of the other designs for the Appmon monsters on Wikimon, and I'm liking them even less. :/ And the names aren't much better... So far Hackmon is still the best design out of the bunch.
http://wikimon.net/Category:Appmon

Yeah I prefer superior names like Demon the demon, Dogmon the dog and Tyranomon the Tyrannosaurus, Angemon the angel, etc. etc. etc. /s
Careful--if your comment was any drier it would be a fire hazard. :p (Point taken, though.)
 

flintlock

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lol too be fair I am leaving out all the Japanese sounding Digimon names. It probably just sounds better to Japanese kids. Like when they randomly insert English into anime openings.
 

Gigamon23

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lol too be fair I am leaving out all the Japanese sounding Digimon names. It probably just sounds better to Japanese kids. Like when they randomly insert English into anime openings.
They do seem to have a fascination with using English words like that. ^^'
 

iara

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I seriously hope it doesn't.
And I seriously cannot understand people who unironically defend this.

Defending Xros Wars? I can accept that. First season would be good if it didn't introduced gender, sex, fanservice and got rid of power levels as well (like, you know... Try to at least keep the Digimon like DIGITAL MONSTERS and not just monsters). But this? This is literally a reskinned Yokai Watch.
 

Gigamon23

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I seriously hope it doesn't.
And I seriously cannot understand people who unironically defend this.

Defending Xros Wars? I can accept that. First season would be good if it didn't introduced gender, sex, fanservice and got rid of power levels as well (like, you know... Try to at least keep the Digimon like DIGITAL MONSTERS and not just monsters). But this? This is literally a reskinned Yokai Watch.
I tend to agree with you. It feels like an attempt to keep current with the newer monster franchises while sacrificing a lot of the aesthetic (among other things) that makes Digimon what it is. It even goes so far as to call the things by a different name because they are so different from the main franchise. I don't think I would be as annoyed with it if it weren't trying to fit in with the rest of the Digimon franchise. But it depends on where they take it, too. We could see that it has more in common with the rest of the franchise than just a name. If it goes the other way, though, I might go so far as to say that the differences between Appmon and Digimon are almost as prominent as those between Digimon and Pokemon.

(On an unrelated note, I like your avatar! The art style is great! :D)
 

iara

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I seriously hope it doesn't.
And I seriously cannot understand people who unironically defend this.

Defending Xros Wars? I can accept that. First season would be good if it didn't introduced gender, sex, fanservice and got rid of power levels as well (like, you know... Try to at least keep the Digimon like DIGITAL MONSTERS and not just monsters). But this? This is literally a reskinned Yokai Watch.
I tend to agree with you. It feels like an attempt to keep current with the newer monster franchises while sacrificing a lot of the aesthetic (among other things) that makes Digimon what it is. It even goes so far as to call the things by a different name because they are so different from the main franchise. I don't think I would be as annoyed with it if it weren't trying to fit in with the rest of the Digimon franchise. But it depends on where they take it, too. We could see that it has more in common with the rest of the franchise than just a name. If it goes the other way, though, I might go so far as to say that the differences between Appmon and Digimon are almost as prominent as those between Digimon and Pokemon.

(On an unrelated note, I like your avatar! The art style is great! :D)
I am waiting for Word of God to tell us all that this is a spin-off. That this has nothing to do with Digimon lore, and it's "its own thing". Then it won't make me go bananas.
I used to pinpoint all of the differences between Digimon and other series or franchises of its genres, but with the advent of Xros Wars and Appmon, this gets harder and harder as they try to desperately try to turn it into a cash cow. A cash cow that Digimon IS NOT.

And yeah, The Loud House is bretty gud. Give it a shot if you can.
 

Gigamon23

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I am waiting for Word of God to tell us all that this is a spin-off. That this has nothing to do with Digimon lore, and it's "its own thing". Then it won't make me go bananas.
Totally agree. It does baffle me that not as many people see this as a different thing. The one thing I can say for it is that it seems to be drawing a little more on the science fiction aspect of Digimon, which is one of the main reasons I was drawn to the series over other monster games. But almost everything else just seems so different...
 

Neilandio

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Totally agree. It does baffle me that not as many people see this as a different thing. The one thing I can say for it is that it seems to be drawing a little more on the science fiction aspect of Digimon, which is one of the main reasons I was drawn to the series over other monster games. But almost everything else just seems so different...
I still don't see what's so different about the appmon. Digimons based on real world data have existed for a long time (bakumon and superstarmon come to mind), the appli gattai is just a jogress with a new name, and at worst, it'll be a digixros with a new name (which is at the same time just a jogress on steroids). The new level system appears to be a renamed version of the old one. The uplink is the only new concept really. And what other difference is there? Is it the designs? The chips? How do those matter? Designs change all the time in digimon and the way humans interact with digimon changes as much.
Please do tell me what other difference there is.
 

Gigamon23

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I still don't see what's so different about the appmon. Digimons based on real world data have existed for a long time (bakumon and superstarmon come to mind), the appli gattai is just a jogress with a new name, and at worst, it'll be a digixros with a new name (which is at the same time just a jogress on steroids). The new level system appears to be a renamed version of the old one. The uplink is the only new concept really. And what other difference is there? Is it the designs? The chips? How do those matter? Designs change all the time in digimon and the way humans interact with digimon changes as much.
Please do tell me what other difference there is.
Probably the most interesting and confusing thing is how much we all don't see how the "other side" (for lack of a better term) views things. We all just seem to be baffled by each other's reactions. :p

Honestly, it's hard to explain if you don't already see it yourself. (Lots of practice trying, there.) One thing I thought about while iara and I had this exchange is that, when you strip it all down, Digimon can be compared to any other monster series and you could say it's the same. Especially since Digimon has gone all over the board in different series. yet they have all had something (that I don't know if I can really define at the moment) that seemed to tie them together. Xros Wars is probably one of the most divergent of the series, right up there with Frontier. You could almost argue that Xros Wars Hunters was really just Pokemon with a digital theme. The overall character design got more colorful, with monsters sporting more simple, shape-driven designs. (That's a trend that's been building since Savers.) And really all they did was go around catching more Digimon. Aside from the Digital-themed world and the Digi-xros, what's the difference between it and Pokemon? Very little.

And yet, what worked for me about Hunters in particular (and to some extent seasons 1 & 2 of Xros Wars) was that it actually used Digimon that we hadn't seen in a while. (Not only that, but I actually like the Tamers(or Pokemon)-esque setup of the plot, which I just described.) It didn't feel out of place when compared to the rest of the franchise. What Appmon looks like at this point, when compared to the rest of the franchise, is a total shift in style and mechanics. Now, these new mechanics and somewhat drastic style shift are not bad in and of themselves. But when your material is so different from the parent franchise that you actually have to give them a different name, then in my mind, it's a totally different thing.

It's irksome to some of us that this new series is pushing itself under the Digimon umbrella. It's like if Monster Rancher, or Dragon Quest Monsters, or even Pokemon suddenly was considered Digimon just because the canon was changed a little and now all those other games/franchises take place in a "Digital World" of sorts, and that's all the justification that was given. And then they decide to ignore all the rest of the original Digimon franchise and just marketed those other games as Digimon. (If that makes sense.)

(Now, admittedly, this sort of thing did sort of happen with the Magical Witches brand of Virtual pets, but that was more to use a couple of character designs from that property rather than to continue a product under the Digimon IP. Overall, it had such little impact on the series as a whole, that I don't know that it really is comparable to what I'm describing, but it was bound to come up at some point, so I'm addressing it in advance. )

Now, we don't know if they will actually ignore the rest of the "classic Digimon", but if they do, then that's not a good sign for the rest of the franchise. If that turns out to be the case, then really all Appmon will amount to is Bandai trying to market a new series under a property that's already established, so as to give the new series a leg up. It's been said that this is sort of what Digimon has done all along with it's various series, but I cannot accept that as being the case. The extent of the differences (from mechanics, to art style, and pretty much all those things you mention) are too different from what has come before. It is frankly astonishing that so many people can't seem to see the differences that are obvious to some of us.

So here's a counter question: What exactly makes Appmon so similar to the rest of the Digimon franchise, that it seems like the same thing?
 

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I'm vaguely curious if this thread should even continue to be quite honest.

It's largely turned into a handful of people just agreeing with eachother, or demanding explanations that have already been given by multiple people.


Lines like this seem to prove my point:

So here's a counter question: What exactly makes Appmon so similar to the rest of the Digimon franchise, that it seems like the same thing?
At this point if you are asking this on page 6 after there has been quite a bit of discussion on the matter, it really makes me wonder if there is a point to the discussion really continuing.

It's effectively 'you and others believe this' and you won't move an inch, and 'others believe something else' and they won't move an inch and repeat over and over again with basically no new content.



If 'something' new or relevant doesn't happen in the conversation I expect it won't continue much longer, especially as various bits are starting to sound insulting to anyone who doesn't agree with a specific point of view (toning down the hyperbole about people who don't agree with a point of view would likely help.)

I mean... half of this page is basically just two people 'agreeing' back and forth.
 
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