Will Appmon redefine the Digimon franchise as a whole?

Gigamon23

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It seemed to get fairly heated over in the main thread about the new Appmon series coming out. There are a fair amount of us that seemed to be concerned that this new series is taking the brand one step too far from the rest of the franchise, based on what we currently know. Whether that fear is entirely founded, I suppose we will have to see, but to me it looks and feels totally different.

It isn't just the Appmon, though. To be clear, and to get it out of the way first: Digimon has been an inherently fluid franchise from the start. Digimon Adventure was a dramatic break from it's Vpet roots, to the point of pretty much re-interpreting it's source material. Frontier wasn't quite as drastic, mainly because it didn't stick around for long, but if it's impact had been bigger, it could have been as big a landmark in the franchise as Adventure in terms of change.

Acknowledging the ever-shifting nature of the franchise, the question that I think it might be interesting to discuss is whether Appmon signals a change on the scale of Digimon Adventure. (Or even larger...)


Admittedly, I'm not super fond of what has been presented thus far with Appmon, but I'm willing to hope that it might grow on me for it's own reasons. I also think, of course, that Appmon is different enough in mechanics, style, and base concept that it only bears a passing resemblance to the rest of Digimon.

I also think, however, that Appmon is really just an evolution of a trend that's been happening throughout the past decade. For one thing, monster designs have been shifting from organic-like designs to designs that are more toy- or plastic-like. Moreover, Xros Wars broke with many of the conventions of the way Digimon work--even more so than frontier. Rather than monsters that grew and evolved into ever more powerful stages/levels, we had creatures who could fuse, and whose levels were defined more by the amount of monsters involved in a fusion than the power of individual monsters. In Hunters, we were treated to a little bit of a throwback to classic evolution, but whose levels were again thrown into question by some of the older generation Digimon digivolving in ways that only added to the confusion. (i.e. Psychemon --> Astamon, Dracmon-->Yasyamon) This lack of attention to the classic ground rules for evolution sort of broke that mechanic.

But while these previous series pushed the basic mechanics of how Digimon work, they did maintain the basic concept of Digimon being creatures born from data in the network. Appmon, on the other hand, not only disregard the classic mechanics of Digimon in favor of what at this point seems to be it's own class and level system, but they change the basic concept of what these creatures are. Appmon, rather than being creatures born in the net, are creatures born from moblie apps.

I would like to make a point here, though: Appmon are by their very nature different from Digimon as we have known them. They seem to operate by entirely different principles from Digimon. But this DOES NOT rule out the possibility that they could fit into the larger Digimon universe. As it stands, however, it seems to me that a difference aesthetic, different rules, and different underlying concept point to the possibility of this series totally redefining Digimon if they choose to run with it for more than just this series.

I guess my question for all of you is, do you think this new turn in the series could herald a permanent change in the franchise as a whole?
 
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MarcFBR

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Honestly, I find the very question flawed because by the basics of the question it has an issue.

Every franchise is redefined anytime there is something new, and certainly Digimon has been redefined in various ways each and every time.


Appmon isn't really any different than any of the other times the franchise had done it, minus that this 'type' of creature doesn't have 'Digimon' in the name (in the way Spirit Digimon, or X-Antibody Digimon did.)


Of course, I'm not sure how you define these as 'not' creatures from data in the network. In fact, as I recall... most of the earliest Digimon were specifically (roughly?) defined as 'programs' come to life. This is literally what Appmon are, apps come to life. It's pretty literally a new generation version of the original concept.

And the truth of the matter is, we don't even fully know the origins of these things specifically. We know they are (or are representative) of apps, but we have no actual idea if we will get an answer on 'how' this came to be.)


I fully know plenty of people consider it a spinoff, or something different because of all the changes, but frankly, even if you'd consider it a spinoff, I'm not sure how people keep defining certain bits as 'very different' from a franchise that (as you even say) changed things CONSTANTLY.


I just find the base concept that people want things to be the 'same' strange, when it's never really been something we've ever really wanted. V-Tamer isn't the same as Adventure. Tamers isn't the same as 02. Frontier isn't the same as X-Evolution, and so forth.

I think somehow people are confusing wanting things staying the same to wanting things to 'feel' the same.


There's already a dozen asterisks next to nearly any detail about how 'anything' in the franchise works. I'm not particularly bothered by another one next to a few things.
 

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I don't see that it's anything more different from what we've had before. Whether born from the internet or born from mobile apps, they're digital monsters.
 

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I guess I'm just thrown by the idea that many people say they want the franchise to try new things, but then we see something new in any way and people freak out.

Especially when it's a franchise that more often than not tries tons of different things.


It reminds me of an old Simpsons scene...

 

Gigamon23

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Honestly, I find the very question flawed because by the basics of the question it has an issue.
So you have said. Many times.

Every franchise is redefined anytime there is something new, and certainly Digimon has been redefined in various ways each and every time.
I disagree that the franchise is redefined "each and every time" a new series comes out. There is certainly a new flavor for each series, but my point is that the changes are much more extensive and glaring than in previous series. Also that Xros wars in particular seems to have been the conceptual predecessor for lots of things present in Appmon.

What I find surprising is how so many people DON'T see how this is different. They even gave these things a DIFFERENT NAME. You usually don't do that unless there is something significantly different about the thing in question so that it deserves a name distinguishing those differences. The differences between all the series you mentioned don't really compare to the base conceptual difference there is between monsters that behave and grow like living creatures, and apps that have suddenly come to life. Like I said in the other thread, I'm admittedly very biased in that I am more a fan of the virtual pets than of any one series in this franchise. I've been able to enjoy some of those aforementioned series mainly because there were some obvious ties to other things I was nostalgic about in earlier series. (My hope is that there will be some of that in Appmon, too. We'll have to see.)

I think somehow people are confusing wanting things staying the same to wanting things to 'feel' the same.
I personally don't feel confused about it. When you come down to it, Digimon is owned by a company that will keep trying to put a new spin on it's property so that it can make money. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, it needs to happen. But it is disconcerting to see something put under a brand you love that, at the same time, has shown no signs of retaining any of the familiar monsters, mechanics, or even the same name as the thing that started it all. The question for speculation is whether this new iteration might take over all future series, so that we will no longer have any of the old Digimon, and only the new Appmon. Do you think it's just a phase like always, or not? The thing that some of us are nervous about is whether this will be the new status quo and we won't see any of the old things we love. (Rational or not, I think this is the thing people are worried about.)

I guess I'm just thrown by the idea that many people say they want the franchise to try new things, but then we see something new in any way and people freak out.
Again, though, this is not just "in any way". These are some fundamental differences.
 

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Honestly, I find the very question flawed because by the basics of the question it has an issue.
So you have said. Many times.
And you've said the opposite many times.

If you don't want to have a conversation about it, I'm not sure why you opened a thread to have a conversation that you've had before.

Not responding to the rest for the time being since if you're just going to complain about HAVING the conversation in the first place, it doesn't make sense to have it, despite you literally asking to have it.
 

Gigamon23

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If you don't want to have a conversation about it, I'm not sure why you opened a thread to have a conversation that you've had before.

Not responding to the rest for the time being since if you're just going to complain about HAVING the conversation in the first place, it doesn't make sense to have it, despite you literally asking to have it.
Sorry. Please forgive the moment of irritation in the first bit of my reply. It wasn't called for, and wasn't the way I'd intended to start the thread.
 

Vice

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Every thing after Digimon Adventure is completely different, even Adventure 02 which took place in the same universe discarded certain things about the first series which made absolutely no sense, and the Digimon Universe series itself is still going to have "Digimon" in the title, the Appmon are still Digimon just a different type of Digimon just like Armor Digimon, Spirits, X-Antibody Digimon, etc. I like to think of Appmon or Application Monsters as Digital Monsters who were born from the data of mobile phone applications, rather than the internet.
 
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MarcFBR

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Sorry. Please forgive the moment of irritation in the first bit of my reply. It wasn't called for, and wasn't the way I'd intended to start the thread.
Appreciate the apology, I just felt I needed to point it out since it seemed a bit odd you wanted to have a conversation about it, but seemed upset I had actually done so.

I'll comment on the rest in a bit since I'm about to head off to eat.



But overall...

I guess I just don't see many of the 'big' changes as quite so big because tons of franchises have done it before.

Having Maximals instead of Autobots didn't bother me, nor was I ever that bothered that Klingons entirely changed after TOS.
 

MasterOfTartarus

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well they triy to build on the sucess of Cyber Sleuth, going into that direction while targeting the younger audience, which is good they need to get in new fans and aslong as they keep a good story and interesting characters i don´t see to much of a problem.
if you don´t like it, well there is still Tri aimed at us, the older audience.

though as for now i say let´s wait and see till we actually have seen a couple episodes.
 

Lhikan634

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Well, Xros Wars didn't spell the end for levels and, unlike initially thought, wasn't the end of evo. Frontier wasn't Things change and things stay the same. So while "the franchise" is moving toward these Appmon, this really doesn't say much about the future. I figure it's like when Marvel had the whole female Thor recently. Sometimes changes aren't as drastic as they seem, and fandoms quite often jump to conclusions based on minimal information. They work a lot more like familiar Digimon than Shoutmon did…

As far as Adventure versus V-Pets, you might should read V-Tamer and C'Mon Digimon. Adventure was the first major world-building event in the anime, but V-Tamer preceded Adventure by 4 months. These already deviated in many design aspects from the earlier C'Mon Digimon from a bit over a year before V-Tamer.

We really don't know what will be next. I mean, after XW, we got tri. going back to the first animated universe. Heck, Marvel and DC have had stranger universes than the Appmon and even an amalgam-verse. Digimon's had a multiverse for a long time, so it's really only a matter of time before some universe looks quite different than what we see as "Digiverse Prime". There will be other universes that look more like the familiar, based on probability.
 

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I disagree that the franchise is redefined "each and every time" a new series comes out. There is certainly a new flavor for each series, but my point is that the changes are much more extensive and glaring than in previous series. Also that Xros wars in particular seems to have been the conceptual predecessor for lots of things present in Appmon.
I would certainly agree that they are at the very least 'looking' at changes made for Xros from a conceptual point of view.

The franchise has been redefined each and every time a new series comes out though. We have the advantage of looking back at a franchise as a whole.

While I tend to not agree Tamers is as dark or mature as people claim it is, look at the first episode (or even just getting bits of info about the series) in the context of when it came out.

For us, 02 was still running, we weren't even sure how it would end at that point (as it hadn't ended in Japan yet either) and the next series is... an entirely new universe? And there are only 3 kids? And some sort of evil Digimon with a neckerchief? And they use the card game in battles? And they're already showing and hinting high level Digimon in the first intro? And they even completely changed the logo? And Rapidmon is green?!


Many of these types of changes we are used to at this point, but in context when it came out... Tamers was extremely different (I won't go into the other ones in detail as I think Tamers sort of makes my point without me going into each show in detail.)


What I find surprising is how so many people DON'T see how this is different. They even gave these things a DIFFERENT NAME. You usually don't do that unless there is something significantly different about the thing in question so that it deserves a name distinguishing those differences.
We do see the difference, we just don't give it as much importance, because we've had name changes before... They aren't called Digimon... but they are digital monsters called Appmon... it's close enough for me.

The differences between all the series you mentioned don't really compare to the base conceptual difference there is between monsters that behave and grow like living creatures, and apps that have suddenly come to life.
...Do we actually know that's how it happens in the show/games for Appmon? I'm seriously asking. Plus... the 02 Digimon and Guilmon sort of just did 'come to life' (and then the context of the Frontier heroes not having DIgimon at all...)



But it is disconcerting to see something put under a brand you love that, at the same time, has shown no signs of retaining any of the familiar monsters, mechanics, or even the same name as the thing that started it all.
See, I guess I find it refreshing. I mean starting off... Tamers had very little familiar except throwing in the card game and Terriermon. Frontier had nothing familiar. Savers tossed in an Agumon that was completely different than any Agumon we had seen before (with a new design at that.) and Savers tossed out the very concept of evolution, and had some basic cameos from characters who looked similar to ones we knew. But none of these are really anything substantial. It's not like Taichi handed his goggles to Taiki. They were basic elements tossed in for one reason or another.


I mean, Star Trek the Next Generation was generally different from TOS. Minus Worf, early on it went out of it's way to avoid having recognizable Star Trek elements show up. It had a nice cameo at the beginning from DeForest Kelley... but would the show have been realistically different without it?

Of course, that didn't stop them from doing a sequel to a TOS episode half a dozen episodes into TNG.

The question for speculation is whether this new iteration might take over all future series, so that we will no longer have any of the old Digimon, and only the new Appmon. Do you think it's just a phase like always, or not? The thing that some of us are nervous about is whether this will be the new status quo and we won't see any of the old things we love. (Rational or not, I think this is the thing people are worried about.)
Many franchises when they enter a new iteration will try and make their own mark early. Old elements invariably will show up, even if they aren't quite as we remember (Xros didn't even use evolution until episode 30 for example.) The fact various Appmon (not including Hackmon) are clearly taking reference from existing Digimon shows they are looking at stuff at the very least.)


Again, though, this is not just "in any way". These are some fundamental differences.
This is the type of thing that's probably going to have a different answer person to person... so I guess the question is... Do you see it as much a fundamental difference as say, tri. being more of a character drama than a kids action/adventure battle series?



Saw your post after I posted Lhikan... so adding on to this one...

Well, Xros Wars didn't spell the end for levels and, unlike initially thought, wasn't the end of evo. Frontier wasn't Things change and things stay the same. So while "the franchise" is moving toward these Appmon, this really doesn't say much about the future.
This is roughly on point. We are VERY early in Appmon. For all we know the 'rules' as defined in Appmon could change a year in, half a season in, or who knows?

As far as Adventure versus V-Pets, you might should read V-Tamer and C'Mon Digimon. Adventure was the first major world-building event in the anime, but V-Tamer preceded Adventure by 4 months. These already deviated in many design aspects from the earlier C'Mon Digimon from a bit over a year before V-Tamer.
I feel like for raw 'differences' V-Tamer is often swept under the rug because certain bits (a main character named Taichi, etc.) make it APPEAR familiar enough that other differences are seen as 'flavor'


We really don't know what will be next.
Yep. And if it's terrible... we can complain about it. If it's good, we can be happy. But thus far.... it appears like Digimon to me. Gatchmon fits pretty well in a line of main character Digimon we've had I think.


Of course, also... look at the last half decade alone... We were in the midst of Xros, which then became Hunters. And Xros had it's own manga that was quite different.
We hadn't had Re:Digitize, the Adventure game, Cyber Sleuth, Next Order.
tri. wasn't anywhere close to being announced.


As for being 'just' more recent.y

Next Order just came out in Japan, we are only a bit over a year out from CS. We are still in the middle of tri., Appmon is starting up soon. No doubt we will get more 'Digimon' games outside of just the Appmon stuff. A mobile game launched outside of Japan, a new mobile game launched in Japan (to say nothing of all the various other products.)

Plenty is happening, Appmon is just one part of that.
 

B-mon

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It seems like everyone's beef with Appmon(and Xros Digimon, and the Legendary Ten) is they don't evolve traditionally. Frontier will never shake the stigma of not having partners, another thing seen as "tradition," on top of that. It bothers people that they can't look at one and go "Adult level." Outside of the fact that they aren't practical in video games, there's nothing wrong with these concepts other than they are different. Plus, Appmon is early; it won't surprise me if A) They can eventually evolve without Fusion, or B) they'll eventually get swallowed up into the fold and be able to evolve into older Digimon. Impmon was created in 2001. He couldn't evolve into Wizarmon until 2006 in the Sunburst/Moonlight games. There was a brief moment in Digimon history that Tyranomon could only become Mamemon. I'm absolutely not worried that Bandai is going to retire 1000+ Digimon, including the 50 or so that are iconic fan favorites.

I guess the only thing that might worry me is that we tread too close to the "spin-off" category and Appmon do not interact with Digimon. Again, this isn't to say the older Digimon will never be used in any media ever again; that is absurd. But I guess there is a possibility they could attempt to co-exist as two franchises, which I wouldn't be fond of because I don't see the point in separating. Hell, people have pointed out the clear nods to Gumdramon, Hackmon, Garbemon, and (the not-so-clear nod to)Parasimon. The Appmon that looks like Garbemon... is essentially a tiny Garbemon. The difference between Hackmon the First and Appmon Hackmon is the same difference between Gabumon and Psychemon. It would be weird to have these clear parallels and then to never comment on them.

At the end of the day, though, Agumon is not going anywhere. The topic creator's main concern seems to be asking "How will you tame Gatchmon in a virtual pet scenario?" Perhaps you just don't for this one. And yet, Digimon Collectors came out and basically gave Elecmon a "true" family-line in Jupitermon. RustTyranomon and Titamon were specifically be designed to be Ultimates for Tyranomon and Ogremon, repsectivley. They've found many ways to conceive "traditional" Digimon and I can't see where that's stopping or being threatened. According to Wikimon, the last batch of new Digimon with no "gimmicks" were, as I pointed out, the bundle of Digimon Collector monsters.
 

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Yeah -- I'm excited for Appmon and the new perspective it will bring. It's a little juvenile, but so what? This franchise started out as a kids' show and what's wrong with going back to that market if it works? We're still getting content and Toei isn't bankrupt yet. What's the harm? The adults who pay attention to Digimon are getting a 6-part movie series aimed directly at us too so it's not like they're throwing their old fanbase out the window

I also think Appmon is a little segregated from the other seasons in my own mind, anyways, since there's no chance for Haru and Gatchmon to be in Hunters. I'm well aware Hunters isn't a governing figure in Digimon "legislature" (I use that term very loosely hahaha), but there are 7 goggle boys and 7 Digimon protagonists in the Hunters' finale. Haru and Gatchmon will never be a part of that so, Appmon as a whole, stands out for me. Granted there could be more seasons in future works that won't be in Hunters, but seeing as though it's the first season not accounted for in Hunters, there's no tradition to follow yet (also not having our protagonist with the "ta" or "da" in his name is a mould breaker, further segregating it)

Appmon is still Digimon in my mind, despite this though. They're just trying something new, which is totally fine. They gave the creatures a new name, sure, but technology is evolving in our world too and things have all sorts of different names. Appmon are lifeforms created from data that live in smartphones and Digimon are digital monsters. If you take out the "live in smartphones" of my last sentence, they're basically the same definition. The team in charge was looking for a new perspective on Digimon and it makes a lot of sense for Appmon to be housed in smartphones, which are such an integral part of our ever-evolving society. Put two and two together and you have a new series idea. It might work, it might not, but only time will tell and it's way too early to get change anxiety over this new season imo
 

Tetra Seleno

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When I think about how the franchise has evolved (pun intended) over the years, I always come back to the history of the franchise's early years, covered extensively in Touma's 3-part series, D-1 Grand Prix. I really recommend reading it in its entirety. As someone who exclusively consumes the Digimon franchise through the anime adaptations (full disclosure: never played the video games or V-Pets), it was a really eye opening read that illustrated how different the classic Adventure anime that I loved as a child was from the V-Pets that introduced the concept of Digimon.

Appmon is going to be different from its predecessors, but history suggests that the Digimon franchise evolves constantly. A lot of what fans of the original Adventure series love about Digimon (i.e., the partner mechanics, evolution being a temporary transformation) are far cries from the (admittedly minimal) amounts of worldbuilding information that was provided to players of the original V-Pets.

On a more personal note, I'm just happy that between Appmon and tri., we have new Digimon content to discuss and enjoy at all. I'm willing to give Appmon the benefit of the doubt and be cautiously optimistic until the anime and games actually release. If they prove to be subpar or inferior products, than I will despair about the brand. For now, I'm just glad that the franchise still lives.
 

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On a more personal note, I'm just happy that between Appmon and tri., we have new Digimon content to discuss and enjoy at all.
This is totally what it comes down to, in my perspective. We have more material! Why not get excited about what could potentially be?
If Appmon is a dud, then Digimon will just go back to the perspective I held before Appmon
 

frankenfran

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To be entirely honest, I'm more excited for Appmon than I am for Tri. It's weird to see people so against Appmon but so into Tri. I haven't seen Tri yet but from everything I've seen it's just a high school drama with Digimon in the background, which is the exact opposite of what I look for in Digimon. Appmon seems to be more along the lines of a fun kids and monsters shounen show and to top it off the writer (or was it director? I can't remember) from the Youkai Watch anime is involved. I'm not sure how many people here are into Youkai Watch as well but the whole series is just a lot of fun, and it's pretty evident they're trying to take cues from their success and apply it to Digimon. I just hope they actually put a little bit of thought and heart into it rather than blindly copying and hoping it turns out alright. Part of the reason why YW was so successful in the first place is because it was genuinely fun and creative... On top of having a ridiculous marketing budget of course but still. You can advertise the hell out of something but if it's not that good it wouldn't get the constant support YW has. It didn't get that success by taking a handful of gimmicks from successful series and applying it to their own then farting out some cheap toys for a quick buck, they made sure it was good and THEN started farting out cheap toys for a quick buck.

I want Appmon to be successful and I want it to be good, that way Digimon won't have to go back to being on life support. Different doesn't always mean bad, and even if it ends up being kinda lame all that matters is that kids like it really. Worst case scenario I'll just play Digimon World or something and watch it after it's done airing.
 

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I knew thought of it like that. I said; "Apps? Ok. Sure. Now which ones have they used and which haven't they" Like I do for every season of PR/KR.

It reminds me of an old Simpsons scene...
They have a quote for everything don't they.
 

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If you've been a fan of the series for a very very long time, then something like Appmon which are creatures in the new Digimon anime not the name of the series itself shouldn't be much of a surprise. Like I said in my previous post, and others have said, Digimon re-invites itself all of the time and it does so without abandoning old concepts. Just because Xros Wars got rid of power levels and traditional evolution does not mean that the entire franchise as a whole did the same. I mean look at all of the media that's been released after Xros Wars, a lot of does not follow Xros Wars concepts heck many follow their own concept but still have things like levels and traditional evolutions. This has happened many times before in Digimon, this is not something new.

I think what you and other people seem to be worried about is whether or not the Digimon franchise as a whole will be rebooted as Appmons. Sure Digimon Universe; Applimonsters is going to spin off toys, anime, cards, games, and mangas that follow its formula, but at the same time you will have Digimon media that will not follow the Digimon Universe series. The Appmon will be no different from the Armor Digimon, Spirits, X-Antibody Digimon, or the Xros Wars Digimon.

Will it have impact on the franchise? Yes, it's once again reintroducing a new Digimon concept that will attract new generations and old ones alike. Will it impact the franchise as a whole? No, there's way to much Digimon media that isn't Appmon being released for creators to just give up on them and focus solely on this brand new hype train. If there wasn't anything new Digimon related being released, and Appmon was the last thing to come out of the franchise in years, I'd probably say yes but that's not the case.
 
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Devimon4000

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Everything changes but there aredegrees. For example in Transfromers IDW abounding the “twowarring factions” is a far bigger change than what BW did. Of allthe changes Adventure has had the biggest impact largely because ofhow successful it was. Outside of


It also easy to look back and see howthing shacked out and believe that was how it had to be, for examplethat Frontier's abounding of partners was never going to completelyredefine the franchise. But I'd argue that Frontier's very poorratings had more to do with partners showing back up in Savers then“well it always meant as one off thing.”


It's hard to say anything about whatAppmon will or won't do, but that has more to do with how little weknow about it, much less how successful it is. It may nevercompletely kill off older elements but if a huge success it can verymuch consign them to the edges of the franchise if its poplar enough. In much the same way that Adventure ended up making Digimonsynonymous with evolving and de-evolving but never completely killedoff the idea one way evolution. For example well Xros wars has beena huge success it would seem that it's reworking of combining fromjorgress was been as successful enough to be transferred over as amajor feature in Appmon.


Desgin wise the its not set to be anykind of revolution just another step that Digimon has ended up goingdown for a long time, well possibly the point that the change in artstyle starts to become really obvious is late Tamers, and is fullythe norm by the time you hit Frontier I'd argue it has its roots allthe way back in the Pendulums with it's cleanly dressed Vamdemon andgallant almost knightly looking War Greymon are the basal ancestorsof Bagramon and Shoutmon X4 respectfully. And almost all of theShoutmon forms are the bases for the Appmon's desgins.
 
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