Unpopular opinions and rants about the Digimon franchize.

Bancho

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as somebody who greatly enjoys Ghost Game, I fully agree. The 9/10 split (I know it's even lower than that) of episodic vs. larger story makes me want a split closer to 50/50 or just fully one or the other. I enjoy the media but I'm not blind that it could bebetter without this glaring fault
 

McGann

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The real problem with Ghost Game is it is trying to be a 'monster-of-the-day' and teasing a 'larger story' at the same time in a very clumsy fashion. They'd have been better at picking just one or the other.
as somebody who greatly enjoys Ghost Game, I fully agree. The 9/10 split (I know it's even lower than that) of episodic vs. larger story makes me want a split closer to 50/50 or just fully one or the other. I enjoy the media but I'm not blind that it could bebetter without this glaring fault
I love episodic shows, and even I started to feel like Ghost Game was testing my patience towards the end.
So I can see how it would be a big wind-up for people who like a leaner plot, with bigger things being teased,

It's weird to see a show with such a huge episode count, have such a delicate touch to any form of arcing narrative.
It's there, but it's spread across approximately twice the ideal amount of episodes (good as the episodes themselves may be).
 

Yamato-san

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The real problem with Ghost Game is it is trying to be a 'monster-of-the-day' and teasing a 'larger story' at the same time in a very clumsy fashion. They'd have been better at picking just one or the other.
as somebody who greatly enjoys Ghost Game, I fully agree. The 9/10 split (I know it's even lower than that) of episodic vs. larger story makes me want a split closer to 50/50 or just fully one or the other. I enjoy the media but I'm not blind that it could bebetter without this glaring fault
I love episodic shows, and even I started to feel like Ghost Game was testing my patience towards the end.
So I can see how it would be a big wind-up for people who like a leaner plot, with bigger things being teased,

It's weird to see a show with such a huge episode count, have such a delicate touch to any form of arcing narrative.
It's there, but it's spread across approximately twice the ideal amount of episodes (good as the episodes themselves may be).
It's all the worse when you take outside media into account. Now I guess Gammamon gets a bunch of Perfects that are just never gonna appear at all (further showcasing what a complete waste his branching evolutions were in the long run). Meanwhile, Gulus is supposed to get an entire line to himself, but it's looking like, at best, any development on that front is gonna be crammed into the last two episodes.
 

Muur

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If all seasons of Digimon would have put a single protagonist instead of more was better
how would you nerf agumon each time? or does it get to where mega is nothing and theres like 25 levels after that
 

Bancho

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Now I guess Gammamon gets a bunch of Perfects that are just never gonna appear at all (further showcasing what a complete waste his branching evolutions were in the long run).
that's just not true, they got a ton of mileage out of the adult form branches to where Wezen and Kaus got quite a lot of memorable moments in stories where they felt like the ideal forms to use over the other two when they really could have just shilled Betel and Gulus and sidelined Wezen and Kaus instead. They even went out of their way to showcase that all three adult Gammamons (other than Gulus) can become Canoweismon and the end result honestly feels so nice as non of the branches in the anime feel wasted. Also, Gulus is still relevant in the last three episodes
 

Yamato-san

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Now I guess Gammamon gets a bunch of Perfects that are just never gonna appear at all (further showcasing what a complete waste his branching evolutions were in the long run).
that's just not true, they got a ton of mileage out of the adult form branches to where Wezen and Kaus got quite a lot of memorable moments in stories where they felt like the ideal forms to use over the other two when they really could have just shilled Betel and Gulus and sidelined Wezen and Kaus instead. They even went out of their way to showcase that all three adult Gammamons (other than Gulus) can become Canoweismon and the end result honestly feels so nice as non of the branches in the anime feel wasted. Also, Gulus is still relevant in the last three episodes
It's still just the Adult forms that get any variation, though. They're pretty much glorified Armor evolutions, albeit seeing a bit more usage after Perfects came into the picture (possibly since, as you mentioned, they're all able to evolve into said Perfect instead of being a bunch of dead-end branches).
 

Kamotz

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Digimon needs a single, guiding, creative vision to really develop its brand outside of being "pokemon, but not."

Pokemon builds everything in their empire off of the games. It informs the manga, the TCG, the Anime, and whatever else I'm forgetting.

I don't feel like Digimon has a central dogma beyond the "Reference Book" -- which is really just a sporadically-updated Pokedex. Product releases seem to happen at random. Products themselves seem random as well. Is it a V-Pet? A comic? An anime? What is SEEKERS?

All of a sudden - BAM 3 new Reference Book Entries for Digimon we've never seen, or just been introduced to.

The Vital Bracelet felt like it for a while, because they seemed to be redesigning how they structured their VPet arm (in color, for one). But V-Pets are such a niche -- and the VB really wasn't very popular outside Japan from what I can tell (which admittedly is anecdotal). But is it really enough to structure the IP around? I've been a Digimon fan since 1999 and I don't think I've owned a single VPet.
 

Chimera-gui

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Pokemon builds everything in their empire off of the games. It informs the manga, the TCG, the Anime, and whatever else I'm forgetting.
You do realize that the virtual pet is to Digimon what the games are to Pokemon and have been so since its inception right? Like literally one of the defining characteristics of the franchise, Digivolution not being fixed, comes from the fact it's a v-pet.

Keep in mind the Japanese franchises are always concerned about their home market first and foremost, especially since attempts to appeal to the west have historically backfired.
 

Kamotz

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Pokemon builds everything in their empire off of the games. It informs the manga, the TCG, the Anime, and whatever else I'm forgetting.
You do realize that the virtual pet is to Digimon what the games are to Pokemon and have been so since its inception right? Like literally one of the defining characteristics of the franchise, Digivolution not being fixed, comes from the fact it's a v-pet.

Keep in mind the Japanese franchises are always concerned about their home market first and foremost, especially since attempts to appeal to the west have historically backfired.
Right - but Vpets are not equivalent to a main-console game. Or even a Handheld-console game in terms of appeal or reach.

Does the appeal to western markets fail because their attempts are V-Pets, which havent been a widespread since 2000? If that? Or have their attempts failed regardless so they only stick with what works in their home market?

Other franchises show that a good IP has a lot of legs as long as the core is strong.

A Vpet that you have to replace multiple times per year and has no connectivity to past iterations (until recently I suppose?) and has limited/specific roster of characters is hard to build a franchise around.
 

Chimera-gui

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Right - but Vpets are not equivalent to a main-console game. Or even a Handheld-console game in terms of appeal or reach.

Does the appeal to western markets fail because their attempts are V-Pets, which havent been a widespread since 2000? If that? Or have their attempts failed regardless so they only stick with what works in their home market?
But the thing is that the western video game market has a history of volatility as evidenced by the original crash of 1983 which many have predicted a coming repeat of.

Also I meant that video game companies, namely Capcom, have tried to appeal to the western market during the 2000s and said attempts backfired badly. To the point that the only franchise to be succeed in this was Monster Hunter with World.

Other franchises show that a good IP has a lot of legs as long as the core is strong.

A Vpet that you have to replace multiple times per year and has no connectivity to past iterations (until recently I suppose?) and has limited/specific roster of characters is hard to build a franchise around.
And yet Digimon has succeeded despite that, because one of the defining characteristics of a strong core is flexibility and we've seen how flexible the structure of the virtual pets is by just how many ways it's been adapted over two decades.

Hell, I believe the characteristics of the virtual pets that have allowed for so many interpretations could form the basis of a tabletop RPG if Bandai had the inclination to do so.
 

Agent Z

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Wendigomon being corrupted by the virus that created Diaboramon makes more sense than it being corrupted out of nowhere by some weird unknown force that is never explained.
 

TMS

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Maybe, but only with the changes the dub made to the timeline and Wallace’s character.
 

JR9386

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If all seasons of Digimon would have put a single protagonist instead of more was better
I could actually see this working out with a series like Adventure, especially 02, and Frontier. As much as I love all the characters, at times the series was a bit bloated trying to develop stories for each character.

Personally, I think 02 would have been ideal if lead by TK and Kari as protagonists for a Digital World different from the one they left, with Armor evolution having been the means to level up.

This is veering off topic, so I won't go too far on this, but Digimon Adventure has struck me as inspired by the Narnia series for QUITE some time. Sora is our Susan.
 

e105zeta

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This is veering off topic, so I won't go too far on this, but Digimon Adventure has struck me as inspired by the Narnia series for QUITE some time. Sora is our Susan.
On a related note Sora’s character arc is one of the most infuriating in the entire series.
 

xm0c

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Digimon needs a single, guiding, creative vision to really develop its brand outside of being "pokemon, but not."

Pokemon builds everything in their empire off of the games. It informs the manga, the TCG, the Anime, and whatever else I'm forgetting.

I don't feel like Digimon has a central dogma beyond the "Reference Book" -- which is really just a sporadically-updated Pokedex. Product releases seem to happen at random. Products themselves seem random as well. Is it a V-Pet? A comic? An anime? What is SEEKERS?

All of a sudden - BAM 3 new Reference Book Entries for Digimon we've never seen, or just been introduced to.

The Vital Bracelet felt like it for a while, because they seemed to be redesigning how they structured their VPet arm (in color, for one). But V-Pets are such a niche -- and the VB really wasn't very popular outside Japan from what I can tell (which admittedly is anecdotal). But is it really enough to structure the IP around? I've been a Digimon fan since 1999 and I don't think I've owned a single VPet.
I'd definitely say that the V-Pets are the main element of the franchise in the same way the core series video games are for Pokémon. The anime for both are pirmarily used to promote those products. The problem is, there isn't a lot you can do with V-Pets, as there's no story, and they're a really niche thing so most people don't even bother getting them. But Digimon has expanded itself in terms of video games, and a lot of them tie back into the V-Pet mechanics, mostly the World series, the Wonder Swan RPGs and the Story series, so they've at least expanded it.

I actually kinda like that Digimon isn't limited to only introduction new creatures in V-Pets and Video Games like Pokémon is, as there have been plenty of Digimon introduced in anime, manga, and the trading card game series. But it's like you said, the Reference Book is the closest thing to the Pokédex the franchise has, and it is far from complete. There are Digimon that have been around for years, even appearing in video games and anime, that have never gotten included for some reason.
 

JR9386

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This is veering off topic, so I won't go too far on this, but Digimon Adventure has struck me as inspired by the Narnia series for QUITE some time. Sora is our Susan.
On a related note Sora’s character arc is one of the most infuriating in the entire series.

I'm unsure that it's unpopular, but most people feel the same way about Susan's arc as well.

Please do tell.
 

Yamato-san

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So it's more recently become apparent to me that 02 actually didn't have a troubled production, and that was more than likely just a bunch of rumors being spread by fans who weren't satisfied with the way that series turned out. Still, I do wonder if there is any validity to some of them. I particularly like the idea that BelialVamdemon was only thrown in because they had qualms about having a human be the final villain (between the Digimon Kaiser, Archnemon's initial appearance, and Oikawa, it sure feels like this was the direction they were headed in, and it would've been a massive distinction from the first Adventure). But whether that was true or not, the lack of a true human villain for so long sure makes me appreciate Kurata in Savers that much more.

I actually kinda like that Digimon isn't limited to only introduction new creatures in V-Pets and Video Games like Pokémon is, as there have been plenty of Digimon introduced in anime, manga, and the trading card game series. But it's like you said, the Reference Book is the closest thing to the Pokédex the franchise has, and it is far from complete. There are Digimon that have been around for years, even appearing in video games and anime, that have never gotten included for some reason.
Also unlike the Pokedex, the Reference Book isn't numbered, which makes it a bit trickier as to how you even organize this huge catalogue of critters. I will say, the Wonderswan RPGs had a good idea by organizing Digimon by their V-pet debuts...... though even those bestiaries get kinda screwy (D-1 Tamers list some of the Digital Monster debuts by their more recent Pendulum appearances, Ver.S and Ver.Wonderswan get placed after the Pendulums, nobody can seem to figure out where the Pendulum .5 debuts go, and Patamon and Tailmon get thrown in with the rest of the 02 Partners), and also not helping is the placement of recent anime promotions, like Terriermon, or Digimon debuting within the game itself. Cyber Sleuth listing Digimon in Japanese kana order and evolution stages also kinda works, though the numbering can't stay consistent that way (we even see this when Cyber Sleuth's bestiary got updated for Hacker's Memory).
 

e105zeta

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This is veering off topic, so I won't go too far on this, but Digimon Adventure has struck me as inspired by the Narnia series for QUITE some time. Sora is our Susan.
On a related note Sora’s character arc is one of the most infuriating in the entire series.

I'm unsure that it's unpopular, but most people feel the same way about Susan's arc as well.

Please do tell.
It depicts the typical Japanese view that any deviation from gender norms is just childish rebellion and your parents know best that the true path is to become a Yamato nadeshiko perfect flower woman.

It also makes no sense for the group dynamic since Hikari already fulfilled that role making Sora a completely redundant character. Thus she quietly fades off screen instead of actually continuing to matter like the rest of the cast.

Just ugh.
 

TMS

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This is veering off topic, so I won't go too far on this, but Digimon Adventure has struck me as inspired by the Narnia series for QUITE some time. Sora is our Susan.
On a related note Sora’s character arc is one of the most infuriating in the entire series.

I'm unsure that it's unpopular, but most people feel the same way about Susan's arc as well.

Please do tell.
It depicts the typical Japanese view that any deviation from gender norms is just childish rebellion and your parents know best that the true path is to become a Yamato nadeshiko perfect flower woman.

It also makes no sense for the group dynamic since Hikari already fulfilled that role making Sora a completely redundant character. Thus she quietly fades off screen instead of actually continuing to matter like the rest of the cast.

Just ugh.
Which actually makes Sora sort of the opposite of Susan, who represented people who outgrow their religious beliefs, which Narnia's author considered a bad thing. Sora, on the other hand, the writers considered fully developed and lost interest in once she started wearing skirts instead of jeans (a "positive" development).
 
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