Unpopular opinions and rants about the Digimon franchize.

Starrynight

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Some of the threadstarter's points and personal opinions are agreeable with mine. I find the new digimons after 4.0 (ie; Frontier) to be too gundam-like (which i don't like).

In 1.0 , which my fave season of all, i like the idea that powerful digimons need not be big to be powerful nor have metallic body, eg; MarineAngemon, Rosemon, Piedmon and Puppetmon. (In 4.0, i like that powerful digimons need not be mega levels, eg; Lucemon.)

In 4.0, Frontier, i like the idea of elemental spirits which is very refreshing and creative to me. If any company re-release Susanoomon cheaply like "digivolving spirits "toys , i will buy it.

In contrast, digimon 2.0, 3.0 and 5.0 onwards don't click with me.
 

Quinlan58

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Some of the threadstarter's points and personal opinions are agreeable with mine. I find the new digimons after 4.0 (ie; Frontier) to be too gundam-like (which i don't like).

In 1.0 , which my fave season of all, i like the idea that powerful digimons need not be big to be powerful nor have metallic body, eg; MarineAngemon, Rosemon, Piedmon and Puppetmon. (In 4.0, i like that powerful digimons need not be mega levels, eg; Lucemon.)

In 4.0, Frontier, i like the idea of elemental spirits which is very refreshing and creative to me. If any company re-release Susanoomon cheaply like "digivolving spirits "toys , i will buy it.

In contrast, digimon 2.0, 3.0 and 5.0 onwards don't click with me.
What do you think of the new Pendulum Z digimon, which are clearly in the style of the first digimon designs?
 

Yamato-san

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I would probably like X Evolutions a lot more if they weren't treated as strictly better versions of preexisting Digimon. A Temporary mode change like Burst Evolution or a trade off such as "this gets better but it doesn't become as good at that" would have been more cool to see but instead having it where every X evolution is by default just better than the normal Digimon in every way makes me want to keep the normal Digimon and X Evolutions in seperate worlds as to not see every design I'm used to be power creeped and made redundant
Agreed. Flavor text be damned, I like to think of the X forms as simply alternate versions that are better in some areas but worse in others (in fact, lorewise, it's meant to be little more than a vaccine, an immunity to a purge that doesn't even happen in most media, but of course they couldn't sell what's essentially Pokerus without having some radical design changes). The Hyper Colosseum card game even had an X-Eraser card, making it seem like the two were about on equal footing.

When Savers rolled around, I was quite pleased to see that the whole X stuff turned out to be a passing phase and the original Digimon were becoming relevant once again (even if I did love the X-Evolution movie). But now that X forms are returning to the spotlight, it is a worrying possibility that power-creep could happen. Hell, it's already sounding like all the Seven Great Demon Lords' X-Antibody forms could be viable contenders for the Super Ultimate level (or "surpassing Super Ultimate" in Demon's case), but again, flavor text should be taken with a grain of salt.
 

VanChizzle

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Don't know how unpopular an opinion this is but I've never really cared for the X-Antibody Digimon. Don't see what's the big deal or why Bandai keeps pushing them out. Especially when they've barely had any media in which they actually feature.
 

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new Pendulum Z digimon, which are clearly in the style of the first digimon designs
I feel this argument comes up a lot and people completely oversell it. It is true in some respects but the parallels break down pretty fast.
They have cut back (so far) on armored cyborgs and humanoid monsters. But there really isn't that much of a "return to old designs" going on.
The designs are more of a conceptual throwback than a stylistic one. If you put the new artwork next to the old ones it stands out like a sore thumb, everything from the shading, the common proportions and the amount of detail is completely different and you really can't get from point A to B without taking those two decades of evolving designs into consideration.

Yes, we're back to "Variations on animals" but the approach has changed over time. You look at the earlier animal based Digimon like Birdramon, Coelamon, and Hanumon for example and you see that the designs are made monstrous only in a very limited way. Of course there's stylized, more savage looking anatomy, and there's more fantastical influences but they were very straightforward and obvious, focused on very common associations and generally non-organic design elements like weapons clothing and armor parts were used sparingly unless it was the whole point of the particular design itself. Likewise, mutants and monsters based on more fantastical concepts were always more varied but that was their privilege thanks to their source.

But by now, designs have grown much more detailed and busier looking, references can be far more obscure and I do like that development, the simple stuff would just have become redundant after a while.
Anyway even if we take a look at one of the plainer designs of the set, we can see that progress. Take Tobiumon for example, for modern Digimon standards, an extremely straightforward rendering of a flying fish, but even he has Organic missiles metal armor and big humanoid arms. If we look for this sort of Design among the animal Digimon in the original Pendulums, the closest we get is Pukumon.
And that's exactly the point: Those designs have a level of complexity and "weirdness" that back in the day was reserved for Ultimates.

And again this sort of "complexity" creep is natural, and it is fascinating how concepts evolve over time.
For example, I think Armor Evolution played a part in introducing more layered and more accessory based designs into the lower levels; Many of them were animalistic but they were inherently "layered" designs because besides adapting some animal or other design into the monstrous they also had to include stylistic references to their Digimentals. That meant a lot of, well... armor, insignias, and generally themed details a lot repeating continuous design elements even between different species, all to a degree that wasn't that common before.
And they were a big batch of designs too. So when they were introduced into the general design pool of Digimon, future designs needed to match them even if they didn't have the direct stylistic influence of the Digimentals behind them.
So over time we got designs packed with more details and more specialized themes allowed for more niche visual references and so on and so forth. And with the Pendulum Z Digimon we are getting an interesting meta aspect in that many designs reference earlier Designs without being explicit sub-species.

Long story short, arguing that Pendulum Z "goes back to the roots of early Digimon" is missing at least part of the point.

It's like saying the VW Beetle produced since 2012 is the same as the original Beetle from the 30s; Even through it's a throwback in some ways, if you actually took it back to that time period people would be looking at you as if you were driving a spaceship.
 

e105zeta

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And again this sort of "complexity" creep is natural, and it is fascinating how concepts evolve over time.
For example, I think Armor Evolution played a part in introducing more layered and more accessory based designs into the lower levels; Many of them were animalistic but they were inherently "layered" designs because besides adapting some animal or other design into the monstrous they also had to include stylistic references to their Digimentals. That meant a lot of, well... armor, insignias, and generally themed details a lot repeating continuous design elements even between different species, all to a degree that wasn't that common before.
And they were a big batch of designs too. So when they were introduced into the general design pool of Digimon, future designs needed to match them even if they didn't have the direct stylistic influence of the Digimentals behind them.
So over time we got designs packed with more details and more specialized themes allowed for more niche visual references and so on and so forth. And with the Pendulum Z Digimon we are getting an interesting meta aspect in that many designs reference earlier Designs without being explicit sub-species.
When the armor Digimon were first shown there was debate in the fandom about whether they had Adult equivalent power or Perfect equivalent power due to how complex their designs were and that one sixth of them evolved from Tailmon and Rapidmon green being a thing. Even the games waffled on this with them occasionally being Perfect equivalent.

I was on the side that they should all eventually be incorporated into the series as Perfect stages and was annoyed that they were all adults, with the exception of Magnamon.
 

Starrynight

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What do you think of the new Pendulum Z digimon, which are clearly in the style of the first digimon designs?
Still on the complicated design side and hard to relate to. 1.0 is classic without being over the top.
 

Yamato-san

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And again this sort of "complexity" creep is natural, and it is fascinating how concepts evolve over time.
For example, I think Armor Evolution played a part in introducing more layered and more accessory based designs into the lower levels; Many of them were animalistic but they were inherently "layered" designs because besides adapting some animal or other design into the monstrous they also had to include stylistic references to their Digimentals. That meant a lot of, well... armor, insignias, and generally themed details a lot repeating continuous design elements even between different species, all to a degree that wasn't that common before.
And they were a big batch of designs too. So when they were introduced into the general design pool of Digimon, future designs needed to match them even if they didn't have the direct stylistic influence of the Digimentals behind them.
So over time we got designs packed with more details and more specialized themes allowed for more niche visual references and so on and so forth. And with the Pendulum Z Digimon we are getting an interesting meta aspect in that many designs reference earlier Designs without being explicit sub-species.
When the armor Digimon were first shown there was debate in the fandom about whether they had Adult equivalent power or Perfect equivalent power due to how complex their designs were and that one sixth of them evolved from Tailmon and Rapidmon green being a thing. Even the games waffled on this with them occasionally being Perfect equivalent.

I was on the side that they should all eventually be incorporated into the series as Perfect stages and was annoyed that they were all adults, with the exception of Magnamon.
I think the biggest issue with Armors is that, for the most part, they don't seem to have complete (canon) evolution lines of their own (though there have been exceptions, like Oppossumon becoming ChoHakkaimon, and I liked the idea the card game had going where all the Devas could derive from an Armor, and in turn become one of the Four Holy Beasts). Personally, I think they could've countered this by making it seem like Armors, which seem to count as a completely separate category of "growth stage" all their own, have high strength potential (enough so that they could be comparable to an Ultimate), yet being difficult to utilize and/or raise. But no, instead they all just seem to be glorified Adults, with some indications that they could at least stand up against a Perfect (mainly Lighdramon, Shurimon, and Submarimon). What really gets to me is that, in the anime, they seemed to have dropped them the moment the Dark Towers were no longer an issue. They didn't even accomplish Jogress yet, they were just running around with their Adult forms, and that was already more worthwhile than the Lighdramon who could take out Taichi's MetalGreymon. I guess to be fair, they did kinda establish right from the beginning that these were sorta weaker evolutions that were only really needed due to a convoluted plot reason, but still, that's a hell of a way to go about introducing over 60 different Digimon that were doomed to be hit like crazy by power-creep.

Also, if Magnamon's apparently Ultimate-class, then it leaves me to wonder about the other Miracles Armor Digimon. Granted, we've hardly seen any of them, but from what little was shown..... I think Kongoumon was a sort of area boss in Xros Wars (not that levels even matter much in that series), but what really gets to me is Maildramon. Not only is it instantly taken out by a newly-evolved MetalTyranomon in Tamers, but its official profile even says that it's Knightmon's stead. So basically, it's submitting to, not LordKnightmon (or really, any kind of Royal Knight), but just a regular, Perfect-level Knightmon. I've got a troubling feeling that, even if the other Armor forms do appear more often, Magnamon will always be the one outlier to their strength. Because main protagonist bias, apparently (hell, such bias is essentially what formed half of the Royal Knights in the first place).
 

Leoil01

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I don't like it when the partners have to split like you spend 50 some episodes building a relationship only to be like because the world is safe now you can no longer see your friend again that why i like hunters ending
 

e105zeta

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I don't like it when the partners have to split like you spend 50 some episodes building a relationship only to be like because the world is safe now you can no longer see your friend again that why i like hunters ending
Agreed. It’s the shallowest of growing up metaphors.
 

e105zeta

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Actual unpopular opinion:
Partner Digimon in most series have little to no personality and usually no character arcs. Even though they're speechless, a lot of the Pokemon in the Pokemon anime have more character than the partner Digimon from the Digimon anime.

Digimon Adventure: Gomamon and Tailmon were the only partner Digimon with distinct characteristics and Tailmon had most of her personality slowly drip away after she joined up with Hikari.

02: V-mon and Wormmon were the only partner Digimon with real personality and Wormmon was the only one out of six with an arc.

Tamers: All four main Digimon (Guilmon, Renamon, Terriermon, and Impmon) all have distinct personalities and all of them save for Terriermon went through a character arc.

X-Evolution: Dorumon has a character and a character arc but since there's no humans, he'd better damn well have one. Sadly, since Digimon are meant to be a reflection of human technology/culture/folklore/mythology/science the Digital World seems like nonsensical randomness without a human to give it context.

Savers: Not only did none of them have arcs or personalities, but Lalamon was even more of a cipher than usual.

Xros Wars: All of the Digimon had distinct personalities since (save for Blue Flare's Greymon and MailBirdramon) the Digimon were all treated as distinct entities in their own rights and most of them had arcs.

Tri: Exactly the same as Digimon Adventure. Once again, Gomamon, Tailmon (and now) Meicoomon are the only Digimon with independent personalities. Patamon at least got an arc, but sadly it was mostly a copy of Meicoomon's already-established and more well-written arc instead of something original to him.

2020: Yet to be seen, but it sadly looks like most of the Digimon's personalities are copy-pastes from Adventure 01, though I do notice Agumon/Greymon having a bit more identity than in the original Digimon Adventure.
 

TheMatrix

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After having watched Tamers for the first time at the age of 30 I can safely say that the argument that Tri is slow could just as well apply to Tamers.

I like both of them by the way.
 
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If you've ever wondered why Japanese monster series use "Shinka" (Evolution) to describe what is clearly "Metamorphosis" (what with caterpillar monsters literally "evolving" into butterflies), the Japanese word for metamorphosis is "変態", which is pronounced "Hentai". Can't have a bunch of kids running around telling their monsters to "Hentai".
Is this legit, because if so, it pretty hilarious.
EDIT: Google Translate says its legit.
 

MarcFBR

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If you've ever wondered why Japanese monster series use "Shinka" (Evolution) to describe what is clearly "Metamorphosis" (what with caterpillar monsters literally "evolving" into butterflies), the Japanese word for metamorphosis is "変態", which is pronounced "Hentai". Can't have a bunch of kids running around telling their monsters to "Hentai".
Is this legit, because if so, it pretty hilarious.
EDIT: Google Translate says its legit.
Which means nothing about the actual term that's been chosen or 'why' it was chosen considering there are dozens and dozens of terms that 'could' have been used instead of shinka.

People need to stop listening to random nonsense on the internet.
 

Yamato-san

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Yeah, I don't really buy it either. For one thing, "evolution" (or "shinka") can refer to an individual's growth and not strictly change in a species over hundreds of generations (though I did find it amusing that Koushirou specifically refers to that definition in the second episode of Adventure). If I had to guess, though, Digimon (and other monster-raisers like Pokemon) probably just went with the term for the coolness factor or something.

To those of us actually learning Japanese, the idea of "hentai" having a hononym isn't that unusual, especially because, in spite of how us English-speakers have adapted the term, it really just means "pervert" to a Japanese-speaker. Actual pornography is referred to as something else, typically some combination of the phrase "ero" (short for "erotic"), like eroge (erotic game), ero-manga, ero-hon (erotic book), etc. Suggesting that children's media can't use the phrase "hentai" because it can also mean something else would be like English kids' media refraining from teaching kids how to count to "six" or commanding a dog to "sit" because they sound too similar to certain other words (not to mention, it's blatantly untrue; I have heard "hentai" used in the context of metamorphosis quite a few times in anime and games targeted towards children).

X-Evolution: Dorumon has a character and a character arc but since there's no humans, he'd better damn well have one. Sadly, since Digimon are meant to be a reflection of human technology/culture/folklore/mythology/science the Digital World seems like nonsensical randomness without a human to give it context.
On that note, I just wanna say that X-Evolution had what was probably the best portrayal of Omegamon to date. It was great to see the guy as a conflicted anti-hero rather than simply being the savior who comes into existence because "miracles" or whatever (as I recall, Savers had a similar portrayal, though his focus wasn't near as heavy). Though I will admit, I enjoyed the way Cyber Sleuth played with the idea, with Nokia pretty much being like "Whatever..... WILLPOWER!!!!" (though speaking of which, the Cyber Sleuth games would be another example of how weak Partner Digimon are as characters, with the majority of them not even having so much as a speaking role.... it's little wonder why the Hackers had a tendency to view Digimon as simple programming tools and little more).

Xros Wars: All of the Digimon had distinct personalities since (save for Blue Flare's Greymon and MailBirdramon) the Digimon were all treated as distinct entities in their own rights and most of them had arcs.
Eh, I thought Blue Flare's main Digimon displayed some sort of personality, especially MailBirdramon (just a shame he's never the base in the DigiXroses, effectively erasing him from almost all the battle sequences). Now, the assortment of other Digimon that were in Blue Flare from the start, such as Golemon, the disposable herds of Gaossmon, and Cyberdramon, those are more arguable cases of total non-characters (honestly, I was pleasantly surprised to see that the Golemon even got to appear again later in the series, because an early episode gave the impression that it was just something to be used up and thrown away after MailBirdramon expressed displeasure at Xrosing with it).
 
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e105zeta

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On that note, I just wanna say that X-Evolution had what was probably the best portrayal of Omegamon to date. It was great to see the guy as a conflicted anti-hero rather than simply being the savior who comes into existence because "miracles" or whatever (as I recall, Savers had a similar portrayal, though his focus wasn't near as heavy). Though I will admit, I enjoyed the way Cyber Sleuth played with the idea, with Nokia pretty much being like "Whatever..... WILLPOWER!!!!" (though speaking of which, the Cyber Sleuth games would be another example of how weak Partner Digimon are as characters, with the majority of them not even having so much as a speaking role.... it's little wonder why the Hackers had a tendency to view Digimon as simple programming tools and little more).
That was most disappointing in regards to Arata given that it would have been interesting to see how a good version of Keramon/Diablomon would have been written. Though we might eventually see that if Jesmon GX’s son ever pays off.
 

DragonicEmperor

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The Veemon evo line used in 02 is an absolute abomination. UlforceVeedramon and AeroVeedramon on their owns are way cooler and way better designed than the entire 02 Veemon line combined.

The Royal Knights are boring. Their designs are very same-ish with the exception of Examon. (who is also kinda eh because there is also some sort of dragon-theme going on within the RKs as well.)

SaintGalgomon should get a Perfectly Ultimate form akin to Crimson Mode, Miko Mode and Blast Mode.

Frontier actually isn't as bad as people made it out to be.

We have too many knight/armour/humanoid Ultimates/Megas.
 

Sparrow Hawk

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Well good news, since Royal Knights managed to be completed as Jesmon and Gankoomon appeared and they gotten game appearances often so I'm sure they will focus on other special groups. Re-Arise finally introduced Holy Beasts you know? Even Devas, too! Not sure about Banchou...

I have unpopular opinion... I want Asuramon to shine even more. In mystical Hindu focused anime but with Gurren Lagann anime style. For his new Ultimate form to stay true to his name origin, the destruction god, the Vaccine type. As for Herissmon. Gurren Lagann animation reference for Rasenmon's attack will be so much greater to make somebody drool to fill the lake.

Damn I want Sengoku warriors with Digimon designs inspired if possible because of Three Muskeeters. Also I wonder how popular is this "Robin Hood" in Japan? I have some research and surprised about his popularity. I thought he'd be popular if King Arthur is so popular.... I need some confirmation. Oh yeah Japan have some manga got some inspirations from some certain folklores but nobody drew Pinocchio? Snow White, too...
 

TheMatrix

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Well good news, since Royal Knights managed to be completed as Jesmon and Gankoomon appeared and they gotten game appearances often so I'm sure they will focus on other special groups. Re-Arise finally introduced Holy Beasts you know? Even Devas, too! Not sure about Banchou...

I have unpopular opinion... I want Asuramon to shine even more. In mystical Hindu focused anime but with Gurren Lagann anime style. For his new Ultimate form to stay true to his name origin, the destruction god, the Vaccine type. As for Herissmon. Gurren Lagann animation reference for Rasenmon's attack will be so much greater to make somebody drool to fill the lake.

Damn I want Sengoku warriors with Digimon designs inspired if possible because of Three Muskeeters. Also I wonder how popular is this "Robin Hood" in Japan? I have some research and surprised about his popularity. I thought he'd be popular if King Arthur is so popular.... I need some confirmation. Oh yeah Japan have some manga got some inspirations from some certain folklores but nobody drew Pinocchio? Snow White, too...
Well, Japan loves Disney.
 
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