Unpopular opinions and rants about the Digimon franchize.

JR9386

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In defense of Kizune Tai mentioned that he would see Agumon again.
But that's really more of a rejoinder to tie-in the 02 epilogue. If the 02 epilogue didn't exist, I highly doubt that would have been included. I think a more powerful way to have ended it, would have been a glimpse into the future AFTER the credits rolled with Tai prepping his son for school, and our seeing an adult Tai and hearing the familiar voice of Agumon saying "Tai!" and then it fading to black.That would have made it a lot more memorable. A voice that he NEVER expected to hear again.


. As for angels and demons the Digimons are made up of what people have put online any real deity before the creation of the Digital World does not influence it directly. As for Angemon having adventage over Devimon, that is debatable. Yes, Devimon made himself stronger through the black gears however Etemon made himself stronger via his dark network jet was able to be defeated by an Ultimate(or Perfect) level Digimon that did not use up his energy to the point of becoming an egg. Sure you could say that it is not comparable since Etemon did not die but keep in mind that aside from Angemon using pretty much all his energy to defeat Devimon he also took enery from the rest of the seven Digidestineds Digimons.
It's been SO many years since I've seen that fight that I had forgotten Angemon did that. but that seems to be a feature of angel digimon. They're able to provide power boosts, healing, and combine attacks. We see that in the Myotismon arc, and in A2020. Still, what I had in mind pertained to the lore you hear in the Digimon profiles. Raguelmon, LadyDevimon etc. were all some class of female angel Digimon that fell/were corrupted by a virus (I guess since they're digital that makes more sense.).Perhaps they were the first virus types? It just doesnt' make sense to me if they're just digital life forms with only a portion of that lore having any real impact on the story.


Also I don't think I have stated this before but since I am one a controversial opinion thread I might as well. I do not think that it is really a problem if a lower level Digimon can defeat a higher level Digimon. Trust me before there was the original animated series there was the Digimon World video game and as somebody who has played a bit of it I can tell you that being a higher level is far from guaranteeing your Digimon to win against a lower level Digimon.

Not saying that it should not have any effect at all but to qoute Piedmon from the dub ''Your Megadigimon are newly evolved did you really expect them to compete against an experienced and might I boast superior Digimon''.
This actually bothered me in the second part of Tri. How did Gomamon manage to survive being buffeted by a corrupted Jogress partner Digimon? It boggled my mind. Perhaps, because he was somehow "digitally older" than Imperialdramon? I honestly don't know.
 

TheMatrix

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Is it an upopulare opinion to say that I would not really mind more adventure material in the main timeline? Kizune was good but it was honestly not Toy Story 3 level of closure. In fact Adventure 02 feelt as just as much if not more of a closure then Kizune.
 
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JR9386

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Kizune was good but it was honestly not Toy Story 3 level of closure.
Off topic, but... FINALLY!
Someone else who agrees with me!

Toy Story 4 was superfluous and completely did away with everything we had learned regarding a toy's purpose. There were SO MANY better ways for it to have ended, but the way it did was a complete disservice to the franchise.


In fact Adventure 02 feelt as just as much if not more of a closure then Kizune.
I'm not really one to defend Kizuna, in spite of the feels, but there are two different issues with each. I'll begin with Kizuna, because that one is shorter. The issue with Kizuna ultimately boils down to it having been written in light of the 02 epilogue. There was no reason it shouldn't have done more to adequately resolve the dilemma it poses regarding the nature of digimon partnerships in light of the epilogue. The rejoinder at the end with Tai saying something to the effect of "We'll see each other again, I know it!" was a weak way of addressing the plot of the film in relation to the epilogue of 02.

The epilogue of 02 can't be blamed for not having Kizuna in mind when it was created (Unless Kizuna were somehow the abandoned alternate ending intended after the events of 02...), but the problem boils down to the general rushed pace of 02 as a whole. Sure 02's epilogue left the door open for all of TK's cited adventures between the final battle and the epilogue, but frankly with everything that went on in 02, they should have ended a la Kizuna. The ending IMO was intended to, as you said, be the final goodbye. They did not intend to revisit Adventure. By that point everything was geared towards Tamers (Gosh, I remember the hype in those days when most of us relied on Megchan's Digimon Encyclopedia!), so they just wanted to finish off Adventure in the most rushed manner possible.
 
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AquaKai

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Not sure if it's unpopular, but I liked Kizuna. Sure, it's no masterpiece, and the ending is in contrast with 02's one, but I feel some of the detractors just didn't get the meaning of the movie. Maybe it just hit too close to home with me due to personal experiences.
Speaking of the ending, is someone able to cite the exact line said by Taichi and Yamato? Because I think I missed that.

(On a side note, not to restart a quenched discussion, but I'm sure in the same Kizuna movie we see some international chosen's Digimon evolve to Perfect: Otamamon > TonosamaGekomon and Kiwimon > Blossomon)
 

e105zeta

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Not sure if it's unpopular, but I liked Kizuna. Sure, it's no masterpiece, and the ending is in contrast with 02's one, but I feel some of the detractors just didn't get the meaning of the movie. Maybe it just hit too close to home with me due to personal experiences.
Speaking of the ending, is someone able to cite the exact line said by Taichi and Yamato? Because I think I missed that.

(On a side note, not to restart a quenched discussion, but I'm sure in the same Kizuna movie we see some international chosen's Digimon evolve to Perfect: Otamamon > TonosamaGekomon and Kiwimon > Blossomon)
I think people got the meaning of the movie, but if it violated established lore and the core theme of symbiosis . . . it probably would've been more accepted as the end to Adventure: . . . That's kind of how I interpret it these days.

You have no idea how much the random Perfects bothered me.
 

JR9386

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Not sure if it's unpopular, but I liked Kizuna. Sure, it's no masterpiece, and the ending is in contrast with 02's one, but I feel some of the detractors just didn't get the meaning of the movie. Maybe it just hit too close to home with me due to personal experiences.
Speaking of the ending, is someone able to cite the exact line said by Taichi and Yamato? Because I think I missed that.

(On a side note, not to restart a quenched discussion, but I'm sure in the same Kizuna movie we see some international chosen's Digimon evolve to Perfect: Otamamon > TonosamaGekomon and Kiwimon > Blossomon)
I think people got the meaning of the movie, but if it violated established lore and the core theme of symbiosis . . . it probably would've been more accepted as the end to Adventure: . . . That's kind of how I interpret it these days.

You have no idea how much the random Perfects bothered me.

I mean, I guess they figured while they were at it, might as well.

Mind you, nothing internally within the anime has ever hinted at them being unable to achieve Ultimate/Perfect. As much as I am a proponent of the thesis that it is unique to the core Chosen Children of Virtue, the producers/writers probably shrugged it off, just like they did with the rest of established lore.

I wonder though, if Kizuna had been written as part of Tri, whether the outcome may have been different.

Omnimon Merciful Mode seems the appropriate send off, though I *do* like the idea of the Bond forms. It just seems like for a last adventure, ALL of them should have been involved in a substantial way if they truly wished to pay homage to both the ending of the first and second seasons. Ignoring the 02 Children, because at this point they were thrown in, just because, I believe whatever threat they were to face should have been an actual epic showdown.

Morphomon Mega was so boring. She was large, but not much else. Perhaps this would have been one of those times where they should have gone with a smaller Mega that packed a punch. Getting off topic, sorry.

Kizuna really only works in so far as it keeping the audience hooked on nostalgia. The series could have just ended with Tri, or alternatively, picked up where the epilogue left off. Adult digidestined with families. It would have probably been a more realistic take, given that by that point in their lives many of them wouldn't be available for the final battle.

Of course Matt and Tai would be available, and theoretically Sora... Joe became a doctor (vet?), so the malady affecting Chosen Children the world over would have occupied his time, and Izzy being Izzy would have been tracking and investigating the development. This just leaves TK, Kari, and Mimi. I don't have a resolution for the former two, though I think Kari would have probably made for a better nurse than teacher. TK would have made for either a good lawyer, or journalist. The former doesn't quite explain why he wouldn't be available, and the latter would at least have him occupied with Izzy (As a side, I wouldn't have been against TK becoming a monk, or priest...). Mimi, quite honestly, she should have been a reporter. So to tie this in, their chosen careers at the end of 02 were poor choices, for the most part.

Revamped careers:

Tai: Counselor?
Matt: Musician?
Sora: Therapist-Housewife?
Kari:Nurse
Joe: Doctor-Vet (I mean, some Digimon are closer to animals...)
Izzy: Programmer
TK: Monk/Priest?
Mimi: Reporter

02 for good measure...

Davis: ?
Ken: Teacher
Cody: ?
Yolei: Lawyer?
 

e105zeta

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Tai: Counselor?
Matt: Musician?
Sora: Therapist-Housewife?
Kari:Nurse
Joe: Doctor-Vet (I mean, some Digimon are closer to animals...)
Izzy: Programmer
TK: Monk/Priest?
Mimi: Reporter

02 for good measure...

Davis: ?
Ken: Teacher
Cody: ?
Yolei: Lawyer?
One of my main problems with the ending is that we see in the games/other materials and even episodes of Adventure 01 with stuff like DigiTamamon: Digimon can have careers! The kid's partners should have interests and dreams outside of freeloading off their humans and acting as pets.

If they'd just given the eight partners their own goals they could've achieved in the Digital World like Monochromon's shop or Burgemon's restaurants, I would've felt the ending being more powerful/true to life.

Agumon could've run for Mayor of File Island, Gabumon could've become an explorer, Tentomon could've opened up his own school ala Kabuterimon in World 1 . . . just such a patronizing view of the Digimon themselves tbh.

They're not pets or imaginary friends, in the context of the Adventures lore, but Kizuna treated them that way.
 

TMS

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I mean, they were literally engineered to be nothing but partner Digimon.

TK: Monk/Priest?
That would be random, especially if you mean a Christian priest. None of the Chosen Children have been depicted as particularly religious.
 

JR9386

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I mean, they were literally engineered to be nothing but partner Digimon.

TK: Monk/Priest?
That would be random, especially if you mean a Christian priest. None of the Chosen Children have been depicted as particularly religious.

In part, because of his partnership with a mostly strictly angel line, I may have veered towards a Christian monk/priest, but given the culture, I suppose an equivalent office.

But thematically, I was looking for a way for them to all be involved in my reimagined Kizuna amidst/post 02's epilogue.

I can't really think of a scenario where TK could be involved, without being on the frontlines in the Digital World. Obviously they're going to afford those roles to Tai and Matt, so his being a writer doesn't seem like something which would keep him from the battle.

Joe treating patients in my remained Kizuna works, because he's still aiding against the threat, even if Gomamon and him aren't actively engaging in a battle. The same with Mimi covering the story etc.

The only other scenario I could see would be TK being a wildlife photographer/anthropologist. Something which would put him in contact with the global population.
 

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Also I don't think I have stated this before but since I am one a controversial opinion thread I might as well. I do not think that it is really a problem if a lower level Digimon can defeat a higher level Digimon. Trust me before there was the original animated series there was the Digimon World video game and as somebody who has played a bit of it I can tell you that being a higher level is far from guaranteeing your Digimon to win against a lower level Digimon.

Not saying that it should not have any effect at all but to qoute Piedmon from the dub ''Your two Megas are newly evolved how can you expect them to compete against an experienced and might I boast superior Digimon''.
Really, I think the idea's been there ever since the original V-pets. Being at a higher evolutionary stage doesn't guarantee a win, though it does increase your odds of winning (winning and losing itself being a completely randomized process due to how simplified the battle system is). This applies more so to the video games, which often use RPG-style mechanics. Can't win a fight? Don't evolve to next stage, just grind more levels and/or stats. In fact, jumping into an evolution is often times disadvantageous, at least at first, since it'll usually reset your level all the way back to 1 (albeit while also significantly raising your maximum potential).
 

Muur

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I mean you could go with the "we came to the agreement of getting our Digimon back but we're not allowed to evolve them" with Stingmon now Wormmon's default form to explain seeing him in the final episode
 

JR9386

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I mean you could go with the "we came to the agreement of getting our Digimon back but we're not allowed to evolve them" with Stingmon now Wormmon's default form to explain seeing him in the final episode

I don't follow. We see a leveled down Wormmon in the episode:



I know this was probably a non-intentional design choice, but why does Sora's child holding the Tsunomon look SO much like Kari and is standing next to Tai's son? I have so many questions now...
 

Muur

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Yeah but you gotta pretend one of them didn't happen. Stingmon helping Ken be a cop seemed more fitting
 

AquaKai

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I think people got the meaning of the movie, but if it violated established lore and the core theme of symbiosis . . . it probably would've been more accepted as the end to Adventure: . . . That's kind of how I interpret it these days.

You have no idea how much the random Perfects bothered me.
Maybe I just need a revision of Adventure and 02, it's been 20 years afterall, but how exactly does it violate estabilished lore? If you will, I'd really appreciate if you elaborated more on this (in the appropriate thread, of course).


Unrelated rant: the Crest of Reliability doesn't exist, it's actually Sincerity. Then there is Purity (mistranslated as Sincerity), which would be fine if it weren't for the ambigous Light (that one could interpret as purity, like that of a child). And it's a pity, because I liked the idea of Reliability.
Also, it seems many fans ignore this, either because they don't know or because they prefer to (but that would count as headcanon, wouldn't it?).
 

Muur

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I think people got the meaning of the movie, but if it violated established lore and the core theme of symbiosis . . . it probably would've been more accepted as the end to Adventure: . . . That's kind of how I interpret it these days.

You have no idea how much the random Perfects bothered me.
Maybe I just need a revision of Adventure and 02, it's been 20 years afterall, but how exactly does it violate estabilished lore? If you will, I'd really appreciate if you elaborated more on this (in the appropriate thread, of course).


Unrelated rant: the Crest of Reliability doesn't exist, it's actually Sincerity. Then there is Purity (mistranslated as Sincerity), which would be fine if it weren't for the ambigous Light (that one could interpret as purity, like that of a child). And it's a pity, because I liked the idea of Reliability.
Also, it seems many fans ignore this, either because they don't know or because they prefer to (but that would count as headcanon, wouldn't it?).
Japan has translated it as Reliabilty before though. Same for Mimi with Sincerity. So they're not mistranslated.





these are from the japanese exclusive Megane Ichiba glasses promotion, where you cant even get the glasses unless you live in japan

joe's is Seijitsu no Monshou, meaning "To be faithful, sincere, honest, and reliable. " so there are four options you can go for. the dub went for reliability, toeis official translation went for one of the other ones. reliability isnt incorrect

and until toei translated it as crest of sincerity didnt most people fan translate it to crest of innocence?
 
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e105zeta

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I think people got the meaning of the movie, but if it violated established lore and the core theme of symbiosis . . . it probably would've been more accepted as the end to Adventure: . . . That's kind of how I interpret it these days.

You have no idea how much the random Perfects bothered me.
Maybe I just need a revision of Adventure and 02, it's been 20 years afterall, but how exactly does it violate estabilished lore? If you will, I'd really appreciate if you elaborated more on this (in the appropriate thread, of course).
Everything to do with partnerships!

1) Over 3 seasons we've never been told that Digivices are powered by "childishness" and we've seen both in flash forwards and from Owikawa that adults can have partner Digimon.

2) There's no incentive to separate Digimon and Chosen Children even if the partnership ran out because Digimon can exist independently in the real world just like humans can exist independently in the Digital World.

3) If anything, it would be safer for Agumon, Gabumon et al to live in the real world after the partnership ran out because they wouldn't be able to evolve and cause property damage anymore.

4) In the three series, Digimon typically grow stronger as the child ages and develop their characteristics. To go "Whoops! You developed too much now you're garbage" doesn't make any logical consistency and if you follow the Kizuna's logic through to the end the "best" Chosen Child of all would be a newborn with so much potential they could blink their eyes and create Jesmon GX Ultra Power Light Holy Mega OmegaGodmon. Which isn't what we typically see in the series.

There's a lot more, but let's just say that it took a big Scumon all over the canon and themes of the series.

joe's is Seijitsu no Monshou, meaning "To be faithful, sincere, honest, and reliable. " so there are four options you can go for. the dub went for reliability, toeis official translation went for one of the other ones. reliability isnt incorrect
Now this is something that actually does bother me. From the traits we see him display when his crest activates, Joe's crest would best be translated as the "Crest of Loyalty". His whole thing is that he's loyal and puts aside his cowardice and selfishness to always put others first.

"Reliability" also makes him sound like a geyser or something like that.

Similarly, Mimi's crest should be the "Crest of Truth", since her whole thing is that her always saying what's on her mind gives her a kind of endearing childish innocence that inspires people. But it's not quite the same thing as the "Crest of Innocence" it's more like a "The Crest that Abhors Deception and Artifice".
 

JR9386

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But it's not quite the same thing as the "Crest of Innocence" it's more like a "The Crest that Abhors Deception and Artifice".
Innocence works in this case. The term you're looking for is Guileless. I actually made a thread about this yesterday regarding whether the Crests/Digimentals correspond to each Tamer and Digimon partnership. I personally think Cody should have gotten Sincerity.

3) If anything, it would be safer for Agumon, Gabumon et al to live in the real world after the partnership ran out because they wouldn't be able to evolve and cause property damage anymore.
Says who?

the "best" Chosen Child of all would be a newborn with so much potential they could blink their eyes and create Jesmon GX Ultra Power Light Holy Mega OmegaGodmon. Which isn't what we typically see in the series.
Which is why higher forms of evolution were limited to a select few. The presence of Ultimates in Kizuna is something I would personally ignore, because in most other incarnations of the anime, a stark distinction between The Chosen Children ™️ and everyone else across the globe with a digimon partner has always been present.

Better question is, where does their data go if they died in the Real World? Isn't that defacto game over?

They had the mechanic of the Wish Realm to toy with in this film, but completely ignored it. That was a surefire way to resolve all of this.
 

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Is it an unpopulare opinion to say that Tri is the best sequel to the original Adventure season since old short films? Season 2 is really stacked with plotlines that don't really serve the story so much as it gives an exuse to introduce more new Digimons and bring Vamdemon back in a move that have always feelt quite fanservice giving his popularity. I will stand by my previous statement tho that season 2 is the darkest Digimon cartoon so far for what that is worth. Kizune as some people have pointed out does kinda make up a plot that does not fit well with what we know about the Digimons and there existance.

People find Meiko annoying fine, but calling her a Mary Sue just because she has an interest in Tai! Sorry Taioras your fanfiction is not offical canon. Speaking of Sore people have a problem with Dark Gennai licking Sora, well here is a little secret he is the bad guy. Besides I find Dark Gennai really enterteining in a Batman 1966 villain kind of way.
 

JR9386

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I will stand by my previous statement tho that season 2 is the darkest Digimon cartoon so far for what that is worth.
Go on...

I've never quite heard that. I agree with your previous statement that 02 threw everything but the kitchen sink at the plot, but I've never heard it expressed that it was the darkest season.

Curiously, I remember more about Adventure than I do 02. I remember the high points of 02, but everything just blurred after the introduction of Arukenimon and Co. I *personally* do not care for BlackWarGreymon, though storyline-wise,I see how it could have been improved upon. I just found it boring to have yet another Greymon in the story, though I actually like Tai and Agu/Greymon. If they wanted to engage in a Digimon contemplating its existence, they should have done that with a composite creature like Chimeramon, or something similar. Why that didn't warrant a segue into Jogress forms I do not know.

I like Oikawa, but I found his introduction into the series too late to make it worth it, which is a shame. His story had the most potential out of them all when taken in tandem with Ken's. IF they ever consider doing an 02 reboot, I would like Menoa's story to be combined with that of Oikawa, where he features more prominently in the series. They could still keep Ken and the mechanism of Armor evolution if they wanted, but feature Oikawa's plot sooner. I also don't care for Myotismon, so they could nix him too.


I sincerely doubt people harp on Meiko purely because of shipping. Please don't generalize.
I don't get how she's a Mary Sue. I think people are too quick to claim anyone pigeonholed into the plot at the last minute is a Mary Sue.

I haven't personally seen many claims that Kari is a Mary Sue, but she fits the bill more than does Meiko.

I think Meiko's problem in the course of Tri is that we don't spend enough time with her as a character in the past. Sure we get flashbacks, but there were better ways to properly integrate her character into the narrative showing her place amidst The Chosen Children™️ in accord with Homeostasis' design. She suffers from the same character development that Ken does.
 
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