Reference Book Refreshing Xros Wars Digimon with Levels & Attributes

Deep Saver

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I'd rather have Appmon turned into Digimon than leave them to be forgotten. It wouldn't be a 1 to 1 adaptation obviously, some things would need to be changed, but I wouldn't mind.

I see some people bringing up if Armor and Hybrid Digimon should be changed to main evolution levels, but I don't think it is as necessary as it is for the No Level Digimon. They've existed happily alongside the main levels for a long time, and generally have pretty clear power levels, occasional strangeness like Perfect-equivalent Armors or Child level Duskmon notwithstanding.
 

Tortoiseshel

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I personally don't want them to retcon Appmon. I think Applimonsters work just fine as similar-but-distinct artificial lifeforms to Digital Monsters. Not to mention both Appmon card games had a couple of Digimon cards so we already have examples of the two coexisting with their unique classification systems intact. In fact, now that I'm thinking about it, the Appli Monsters Card Game cards have basically the same layout as the Hyper Colosseum cards. I wonder if it would be possible to play with both of them at once...?
I don't think that suggestion would change anything, since I don't think anyone has ever made the argument that Lucemon somehow isn't a child level Digimon.
Not Lucemon specifically, no, but I think it's a good counter-example for when people say things like, "Why does it take a bunch of Perfects to take down Eyesmon if it's just an Adult??" Also, this is why I hate the dub terms because In-Training, Rookie, Champion etc. do in fact imply tiers/power levels, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were what caused a lot of this confusion for the fandom. And just the fact that they sound way too "x-treme 90's", and not in the fun way.
 

Chimera-gui

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Sorry but I fully agree with YongYoKyo and Tortoiseshel on this, while it might be possible to convert Hybrid and Armor level Digimon into a traditional level, and in fact this has done multiple times such as with the X-Antibody subspecies, Appmon and Digimon are too different at the fundamental level for conversion to be viable.

As Mattman324 rightly noted, Appmon are not even formed from the same coding language as Digimon. It'd be like discovering and alien species with a radically different genetic structure from our own only to demand that they be converted into humans.

What's more the appmon chip with agumon on it was a Gatchmon chip, Agumon's presence on it was purely aesthetic and promotional.

And as Tortoiseshel noted, you can have Digimon and Appmon coexisting as distinct life forms without stripping away all that made the latter unique in order to arbitrarily shoehorn them into the former.

The fact that Appmon's card games outright segregate Digimon and Appmon as distinct life forms with separate classification systems should be the biggest indication that Appmon and Digimon are separate, distinct digital life forms now and likely forever.
 
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Mattman324

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the Appli Monsters Card Game cards have basically the same layout as the Hyper Colosseum cards. I wonder if it would be possible to play with both of them at once...?
It would, the Appmon card game was set up as basically a 1 to 1 remake ruleswise to try to attract older fans, and some of the cards are even 1 to 1 remakes as well. Trouble is that Hyper Colo is a dinosaur of a game by modern standards so it got kind of ignored.

It's not for no reason that the current card game basically ignores all the old card game setup.
 

Strontium

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As a Digimon fan with an especially large soft-spot for Appmon, I also do not mind if they are left separate from the traditional Digimon level rankings (I also headcanon that Appmon power levels are on the whole a bit higher than Digimon equivalents.) I hope that the Digimon team will come back to Appmon someday and do another entry in the franchise, but I won't hold my breath.
 

e105zeta

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I think people forget that the Agumon in Appmon wasn’t a real Digimon, it was just a character from a Digimon mobile game.
 

Mattman324

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I also headcanon that Appmon power levels are on the whole a bit higher than Digimon equivalents.
Depends on whether there's an Applidrive Duo involved or not, doesn't it?

I think people forget that the Agumon in Appmon wasn’t a real Digimon, it was just a character from a Digimon mobile game.
Honestly I wasn't going to say anything in that regard because I've only seen clips of that episode, I'm still watching through that show.
 

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Consider this though. There are non-Digimon entities in the Reference Book, such as NEO and Death-X-mon and they can evolve from Digimon. I think Appmon could be incorporated too, and the Grade system lines up nicely with Digimon levels, so I'd be fine with Appmon evolving to Digimon and vice versa in a game. I just don't want Appmon to never be touched again. Maybe classify them as a special Digimon subspecies with unique characteristics or a Digital Lifeform with many similarities to Digimon. There are lots of ways this could work.

Also things can be programmed in multiple languages, and in fact many are, so this wouldn't make Appmon and Digimon fundamentally incompatible.
 

e105zeta

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I also headcanon that Appmon power levels are on the whole a bit higher than Digimon equivalents.
Depends on whether there's an Applidrive Duo involved or not, doesn't it?

I think people forget that the Agumon in Appmon wasn’t a real Digimon, it was just a character from a Digimon mobile game.
Honestly I wasn't going to say anything in that regard because I've only seen clips of that episode, I'm still watching through that show.
Basically a game Appmon summons a bunch of characters from game apps and one of them is Agumon from a Digimon Links analog. He’s not a lifeform or from another universe, he’s fiction. So any conclusion drawn from his interaction with the Appmon is moot.
 

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If the Appmon aren't eventually brought into line with proper Digimon, we'll probably never see them again. Not a huge loss, in my opinion, since most of the designs were pretty poor, but it's something to consider for those who are fans.
 

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As Mattman324 rightly noted, Appmon are not even formed from the same coding language as Digimon
If you think that binary is a "coding language" you have no idea what you are talking about. Binary it is an encoding that can express arbitrary information. This includes of course any logic expressed by programming languages, which is literally the point of their entire existence.

If you want to convert a program in any programming language to binary logic, simply execute it. One way or another it'll end up binary because that's how computers work.

Not Lucemon specifically, no, but I think it's a good counter-example for when people say things like, "Why does it take a bunch of Perfects to take down Eyesmon if it's just an Adult??"
It's not really a fitting argument because being unnaturally strong is part of Lucemon's design. A Digimon based on Satan himself masquerading bratty cupid has all the reasons in the world to hide surprising amounts of power, it fits his theme.
If it would fit Eyesmon's theme is questionable, but even that is kind of besides the point. I see the situation with Eyesmon as basically based on people not really paying attention to what's happening on screen. Because there wasn't anything "strong" about Eyesmon himself.
He kept summoming random barriers and distractions to keep the other Digimon back, barriers which had zero connection to any physical toughness on his part, none of his attacks ever managed to actually lay a single scratch on any of Partner Digimon, at most preventing them from flying (Even their Adult forms weren't actually damaged at all after shielding their partners from the first laser barrage) and the moment they got through to him, he was killed with a single blow exactly like you would expect it from an adult Digimon.

Also, this is why I hate the dub terms because In-Training, Rookie, Champion etc. do in fact imply tiers/power levels, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were what caused a lot of this confusion for the fandom.
What is the point in getting angry about implicit assumptions in terminology when the rest of the franchise is very explicit about the power difference between levels?
Child Level Digimon are less powerful than Adult Level Digimon. As a general statement about groups this is provably true from any number of sources like any of the card games, video games or basically any quantifiable statement of power throughout the franchise.
Lucemon proves very little because it's comparing a single specific outlier to a claim about averages... and that's just not how statistics work.
Realistically, even if Bandai introduced ten more Child Level Digimon around Lucemon's level it probably still wouldn't be enough to bridge the gap.
 

Chimera-gui

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Consider this though. There are non-Digimon entities in the Reference Book, such as NEO and Death-X-mon and they can evolve from Digimon.
Pretty sure that was largely a gameplay conceit and I'm already rant at length about why you shouldn't base canon purely on gameplay conceits, gameplay mechanics can be useful as starting point but there's a reason Pokémom's non-game media doesn't follow the main series games' rules 1:1 especially in regard to Pokémon types.

And conversely you have stuff like Yggdrasil that's likely never going to appear in a playable form unless they make a TTRPG with it as the GM's avatar.

Maybe classify them as a Digital Lifeform with many similarities to Digimon.
Isn't that what Appmon canonically are though? A Digital Lifeform with similarities to Digimon? If a lifeform is not a Digimon, it is not Digimon and Bandai has been pretty clear about Appmon being a separate lifeform from Digimon. Maybe they'll contradict themselves later down the line but I personally don't see it happening.

Transformers has already shown that you have multiple similar lifeforms occupying the same universe without being the same lifeform. Hell, the fucking Quintessons got toys in Earthrise.

And while the Judge having a prison alt mode is head tilting since Sharkticons and Allicons are the only known Quintessons canonically capable of transforming, it was likely a toyline conceit since both Alpha Q and Cybervere's Judge don't transform and the alt mode is fitting for the Judge as a character even if they are the epitome of the Hanging judge archetype.

Also things can be programmed in multiple languages, and in fact many are, so this wouldn't make Appmon and Digimon fundamentally incompatible.
True but generally that's do to programming languages having very distinct purposes with little to no overlap which would be more in line with Digimon and Appmon being distinct lifeforms with their own niches rather than them being the same lifeform, think plants vs animals.

Binary it is an encoding that can express arbitrary information. This includes of course any logic expressed by programming languages, which is literally the point of their entire existence.

If you want to convert a program in any programming language to binary logic, simply execute it. One way or another it'll end up binary because that's how computers work.
Fair enough, I'm not super well versed in the terminology and it's not like the franchise has used the terminology 100% right either.
 

Lhikan634

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Just to note, there are still issues of definitions. Binary is a machine language and, as such, is still considered a programming language. In fact, it's outright defined as a low-level programming language. This originates way back in the age of computer punch cards. We just don't ever actually write code directly in machine language anymore as that's just too dang cumbersome now and is fairly user-antagonistic. Instead, we use high-level programming languages (see Python, Visual Basic, Java, etc.). So the intended distinction above is between low-end and high-end languages, not whether it actually is a language.

If we want to get into the question of whether Digimon and Appmon even are compatible, we'd first have to determine whether Appmon are using true machine language, an assembly language, or what. If Appmon are intended to be a more modern take on Digimon, it's worth considering that most mobile apps aren't programmed in binary - iOS will use either Swift or Objective-C, while Android will use either Java or Kotlin. These are high-level programming languages. These can be expressed in terms of binary, but why would you? So long as Appmon are using a binary-compatible assembly or high-level language, they could hypothetically be compiled as Digimon if we go with the notion that Digimon are pure binary. However, a different machine language would be problematic, as seen with the trinary (or ternary) code in Digimon Adventure tri. Should that end up being the machine language of the Dark World, that could certainly explain its negative effect on the Digital World. I'd have to pull up Appmon sometime to see more about what it seems to be. Digimon get a bit interesting. In some worlds, they're seemingly just binary code, but I'd even question that a bit. We also know of the existence of both DigiCode and Fractal Code. We also have whatever allows Digimon to be rendered in the real world. It could seem to suggest some sort of high-level language. That could end up making them incompatible, much like how iOS apps and Windows exe files are incompatible. It also depends on whether the writers ever want it to happen… if they want it to happen, it will, regardless of complexities.

In contrast, those from XW are still Digimon, using the same language. It could be suggested that their Digital World simply didn't render their level or attribute. Another Digital World should, so long as the data's present. So that's a much less convoluted situation.

This thought just came to me… with this round of updates, the DRB should be able to finally give a more prominent correction to a certain note that Mervamon is only considered at the Perfect (Ultimate) level. Yay.
 

e105zeta

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The Appmon are, in business terms, victims of their own success. If the line was a failure they’d be free to be added quietly. If the series was a true success there’d be sequels. As a moderate success Bandai is paralyzed about what to do with them.

If it were up to me both the Appmon and the Legendz would be folded into Digimon.
 

Dharakjoo

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Digimon and Appmon are different digital lifeforms and have different mechanic.
 

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Awesome news! I hope appmon are next since they can easily give them levels while keeping their grades. Some people will probably also want armors/hybrids to get new levels but I personally think that would be too big of a retcon.
my personal preference would actually be the other way around with Appmon remaining their own level system and the armors getting traditional Digimon levels

Please don't make Apollomon Whispered an actual acknowledged thing. Please don't make Apollomon Whispered an actual acknowledged thing. Please don't make Apollomon Whispered an actual acknowledged thing.
as somebody who has Coronamon -> Apollomon as their partner Digimon and has Xros Wars as their least favorite Digimon anime, I really like Whispered. It takes the Digimon recolor trope and makes it a mode change rather than a seperate individual and I love that, especially since it has context as a corruption that Apollomon can't get rid of that naturally creates conflict as a result, giving a lot of depth to his character
 

McGann

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On Appmon, I'd either have them listed in the levels as established, with Standard correlating to Rookie, Super to Champion etc. but when you actually view their profile, they're listed by their Appmon terms,
or,
just have an entire section for Apps as you do for Armour and Hybrids, and on Level have App (Kiwami) and such.
 

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This is good. Now we have a clear example to use in evo charts. Instead of us guessing.
 

Peppermon

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I Wonder If the Idea behind Appmon was tô present more different digital live forms in the Digimon Universe or If this concept was Just to present appmon
 

e105zeta

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I Wonder If the Idea behind Appmon was tô present more different digital live forms in the Digimon Universe or If this concept was Just to present appmon
The idea was to cash in on Yokai Watch,
 
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