Reference Book Refreshing Xros Wars Digimon with Levels & Attributes

Geode

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I wonder if the recent polls had anything to do with it too because I bet a lot of people were voting things like Shoutmon in the Rookie poll or Reapmon in the Ultimate poll etc and Bandai just thought "screw it!" and decided to retcon.

Unlucky for those last polls that this is happening now, but at least people can vote these guys in future polls now.

My main hope is that they make Shoutmon King a Champion. Then Shoutmon has a full line already with Shoutmon -> Shoutmon King -> OmniShoutmon -> Shoutmon DX
You and me both.
 

Sparrow Hawk

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to me this is their levels outside of Xros Wars universes as those universes seem to explicitly just not have levels
Hmm it doesn't feel that way for me. To be honest, I'm so insulted directly.
 

DragonicEmperor

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Please don't make Apollomon Whispered an actual acknowledged thing. Please don't make Apollomon Whispered an actual acknowledged thing. Please don't make Apollomon Whispered an actual acknowledged thing.
 

Deep Saver

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Please don't make Apollomon Whispered an actual acknowledged thing. Please don't make Apollomon Whispered an actual acknowledged thing. Please don't make Apollomon Whispered an actual acknowledged thing.
Do it Bandai, make him canon! Every time a recolor is added to the reference book I become more powerful.
 

Vande

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Do it Bandai, make him canon! Every time a recolor is added to the reference book I become more powerful.
This made me laugh more than it should have.

I'm glad they are doing levels for the Xros Digimon. It never felt right to me (sorta like Frontier) when levels were orignally ditched.
 

Chimera-gui

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Awesome news! I hope appmon are next since they can easily give them levels while keeping their grades. Some people will probably also want armors/hybrids to get new levels but I personally think that would be too big of a retcon.
I feel like you've got that backwards since Armor and Hybrid level Digimon have been given traditional Levels for some time whereas Appmon are explicitly treated as a separate life form from Digimon altogether so you really can't give them Levels while keeping Grade since Appmon's Grade is the analog of a Digimon's Level.

Converting Appmon into Digimon is going too far in my honest opinion.
 

e105zeta

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It’s not really if they decide to pass on doing more Appmon series, especially since so many Appmon are based on existing Digimon.
 

Rohan

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This certainly changes things - for me at least - when it comes to picking a Mega for the presumed future contest.

Tactimon all the way boyz!!! :giggle:
 

Mattman324

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It won't change my mind for sure since they one-shot'd all Ultimate levels with lower levels of "Xros" Fusions+ involved others with very lower level or random ones.
...and?
Just need to accept the idea that there may be tiers even within the same level
So, the same thing we've always done? That's literally how every single level in the franchise has always functioned.

Didn't Xros Wars manga kind of explained why digimons had no levels in that universe though?
Never read the manga, care to share the reason?
Don't need to, it's explained literally in the anime. Digimon in Xros Wars do not function or age in ways that are equal to any other part of the franchise - a Minervamon getting older became Mervamon, for example.

This discards the level system, but honestly forcing themselves to be 100% rigid to a system that is itself never perfectly rigid (quick question, is Minotaurmon an Adult or Perfect right now?) isn't something they should need to do, and it's not like Xros Wars was unsuccessful - it just got its successes pissed away or wasn't as much of a success as their unrealistic expectations.
Do it Bandai, make him canon! Every time a recolor is added to the reference book I become more powerful.
Shit, I've gotten power from the tears of the foolish many a time, but I'd never thought to mine it from that! What a brilliant scheme.
 

Tortoiseshel

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You know all this hand-wringing about "tiers" and matchups or whatever could be easily avoided, I think, if we acknowledged that Digimon evolutionary levels are more like life stages than Dragon Ball Z power levels. Lucemon can be super powerful and able to take down Perfect-level Digimon and still be a Child because... it's literally a child. A lad. A little boy.
 

Geode

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Is Digimon xross wars similar to gundam build fighters.
 

Theigno

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to me this is their levels outside of Xros Wars universes as those universes seem to explicitly just not have levels
Hmm it doesn't feel that way for me. To be honest, I'm so insulted directly.
No amount of rewritten DRB profiles are going to change what Xros Wars directly put on the screen, such as Shoutmon handily defeating multiple Perfects without much effort (and they are not going to make him perfect) or conversly XW Beelzebumon being pretty much on par with a Stingmon, even though he's clearly on track on being classified as a Perfect or Ultimate. Or just very basically Baalmon not evolving from another Digimon but just growing from a .... younger looking Baalmon (and also Shoutmon implicitly maturing into his King form over a few years). Because in the end it's not power that makes levels "levels", it is at the core about the presence of discreet steps in the natural evolution process, Xros Loader powered magical shenanigans notwithstanding.
[The difference between this and blast Evolution via Digivices in previous seasons being that, while the Digivices permitted evolution to occur much faster than usual, the normal natural Digimon in those settings do evolve into their higher forms just as suddenly and without any intermediary steps as the protagonist Digimon... once they do actually manage it]

But again levels in digimon became more and more irrelevant throughout the seasons (to a point where a human can one punch digimons regardless of their supposed level strengths...)
That's not levels being "irrelevant" that's just you ignoring vital context like how commonly something happens or if it is clearly treated as something special.
It's like arguing that it is irrelevant how much more deadly a gun is compared to a knife when people have nukes that could level the whole city. But the number of people capable of ordering a nuclear strike is so minimal that nuclear explosions in general are rare enough to not really figure into the equation. It's the same in fiction.
Extreme exceptions that the setting itself acknowledges as extreme exceptions are not an argument against a system that otherwise works pretty consistently.

Didn't Xros Wars manga kind of explained why digimons had no levels in that universe though?
It was kind of a weird semi explanation about how Digimon stopped evolving... but it could technically be read as Digimon just being stuck at their levels rather than levels not existing...it's not really a good explanation.

Converting Appmon into Digimon is going too far in my honest opinion.
Can't really imagine that it would bother anyone at Bandai to switch out a few terms. The integration of the XW Digimon could be setting up for a similar update bringing Appmon into the DRB, to get have everything unified. Appmon might even be easier to manage than XW Digimon, their integration with the other DRB entries is basically only one or two search-and-replace commands away.

I wonder if the recent polls had anything to do with it too because I bet a lot of people were voting things like Shoutmon in the Rookie poll or Reapmon in the Ultimate poll etc and Bandai just thought "screw it!" and decided to retcon.
I don't think "twitter polls" are a big decision factor in any context of the franchise.

You know all this hand-wringing about "tiers" and matchups or whatever could be easily avoided, I think, if we acknowledged that Digimon evolutionary levels are more like life stages than Dragon Ball Z power levels. Lucemon can be super powerful and able to take down Perfect-level Digimon and still be a Child because... it's literally a child. A lad. A little boy.
I don't think that suggestion would change anything, since I don't think anyone has ever made the argument that Lucemon somehow isn't a child level Digimon.
 

Yamato-san

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You know all this hand-wringing about "tiers" and matchups or whatever could be easily avoided, I think, if we acknowledged that Digimon evolutionary levels are more like life stages than Dragon Ball Z power levels. Lucemon can be super powerful and able to take down Perfect-level Digimon and still be a Child because... it's literally a child. A lad. A little boy.
Cyber Sleuth's memory requirements seem like a pretty good measure. Lucemon's considered a Child, but in that game, it's more analogous to a Perfect, where as the "Perfect" Lucemon Falldown Mode is clearly equivalent to an Ultimate (similarly, Magnamon and Rapidmon Armor have the Armor level, but act as Ultimates, while Fladramon, the only other Armor, acts as an Adult). Though, it wasn't without its own share of bullshit (clearly a bias towards "protagonist" Digimon when a LOT of Vaccines require more memory than the other Digimon of their level, not to mention Beelzebumon Blast Mode and Duftmon Leopard Mode having the highest requirement yet still not counting as Super Ultimate), but if it managed to continue into future games, it could be retconned and tweaked with little issue. But yeah, when the lowest-grade Ultimates like PlatinaNumemon can have a 16 requirement, and each "tier" adds 2 more memory until it reaches the likes of the Royal Knights and Demon Lords (22 memory), you can pretty much have 4 different tiers within the Ultimate level alone, with 25 memory being reserved for all the Super Ultimates.

This discards the level system, but honestly forcing themselves to be 100% rigid to a system that is itself never perfectly rigid (quick question, is Minotaurmon an Adult or Perfect right now?) isn't something they should need to do, and it's not like Xros Wars was unsuccessful - it just got its successes pissed away or wasn't as much of a success as their unrealistic expectations.
To be fair, they were already shying away a bit from Xros Wars's unique system halfway into the series itself. Amusingly enough, the moment OmegaShoutmon became a thing, Tactimon himself remarks on the troubles he went through to evolve to his current state, as if to further establish "yup, evolution is still definitely a thing in Xros Wars". Though it's not like they weren't trying to push DigiXros as a complete replacement. Case in point: Mugendramon fuses with a crapton of Scorpiomon, in a way that seems more like it's absorbing enough data to evolve...... except it doesn't evolve. It just fuses into its totally brand new and original fusion form, NOT Chaosdramon.
 

Neilandio

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I feel like you've got that backwards since Armor and Hybrid level Digimon have been given traditional Levels for some time whereas Appmon are explicitly treated as a separate life form from Digimon altogether so you really can't give them Levels while keeping Grade since Appmon's Grade is the analog of a Digimon's Level.

Converting Appmon into Digimon is going too far in my honest opinion.
Giving traditional levels to Armor and Hybrid digimon would require changing the information already established in the DRB (and in every profile ever produced for these).
Giving levels to appmon would require changing nothing, only adding extra information, which is exactly what Bandai is doing with xros digimon.
As for them being a separate lifeform from digimon altogether I don't think that has ever been explicitly shown. On the contrary we even got an appmon chip with agumon on it.
 

YongYoKyo

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There are significant differences between all the non-traditional cases.

Armor and Hybrids are additional options to the standard level system. They don't replace the traditional system, but they exist alongside the traditional system. After all, you have regular levels (Champion, Mega, etc.) that exist as a concept in 02 and Frontier.

Xros Wars
just didn't have a system in the first place. Levels and attributes are completely irrelevant. Giving levels and attributes to Xros Wars Digimon wouldn't really retcon anything, since there wasn't anything in the first place. It would be irrelevant within Xros Wars either way.

Appmon follows a completely different system with Apps, Grades, and Types. It's not a case of assigning a system to something that didn't have a system, but replacing a pre-existing system with a completely different system.
Some terms do have parallel counterparts, but there are several fundamental differences even between like-counterparts. For one thing, there isn't an advantage-triangle between Vaccine, Data, and Virus. It's an advantage-heptagon between Social, Navi, Tool, System, Game, Entertainment, and Life (and there's also still God). Even if you include the additional attributes like Free, Unknown, and Variable; there still aren't enough replacement terms, moreover, their advantage-interactions with each other would be completely different.
 

Mattman324

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You know all this hand-wringing about "tiers" and matchups or whatever could be easily avoided, I think, if we acknowledged that Digimon evolutionary levels are more like life stages than Dragon Ball Z power levels. Lucemon can be super powerful and able to take down Perfect-level Digimon and still be a Child because... it's literally a child. A lad. A little boy.
I mean, that was quite literally the original point. Start as a Baby, grow to a Child, then an Adult, and if you want to be better you better get good.
Because in the end it's not power that makes levels "levels", it is at the core about the presence of discreet steps in the natural evolution process, Xros Loader powered magical shenanigans notwithstanding.
Right. Xros Wars digimon don't properly evolve, or if they do it's not in the same way. But Xros Wars as a universe was already different from most other Digimon universes in a lot of ways.

EDIT:

As for them being a separate lifeform from digimon altogether I don't think that has ever been explicitly shown. On the contrary we even got an appmon chip with agumon on it.
That actually is the proof. Appmon past a certain point have higher level coding languages inscribed on their skin, and it gets more noticeable the higher they get. Agumon, manifested like an Appmon... had binary.
 

e105zeta

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It's an advantage-heptagon between Social, Navi, Tool, System, Game, Entertainment, and Life.
These would likely be totally replaced or be turned into species types like Dinosaur if a merge ever happened.
 

YongYoKyo

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It's an advantage-heptagon between Social, Navi, Tool, System, Game, Entertainment, and Life.
These would likely be totally replaced or be turned into species types like Dinosaur if a merge ever happened.
Except there is already an analogous counterpart to Digimon's Type (or "species"), which is Appmon's App. Level is analogous to Grade, and Attribute is analogous to Type. A bit confusing since some terms are re-used for different purposes.
 
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