Pendulum Z Folder Continent Report #12?- Virus Busters

e105zeta

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Is it the V-Pets? Probably should be, right? That's where it all started. That's what they're consistently churning out. I have my own opinions on why that's not an ideal thing to build a brand on, but if they do I'd love it if they built it more...substantially. Less like a generic chachki and more something you can market globally. I love the lore and character design of Digimon, but you can't even experience the latter in their core product line. Would you be able to pick out one V-pet sprite from another? If I gave you 4 sprites would you be able to correctly match them to their names? Maybe? Probably not, because it would be a trick question and one of the 4 provided names wouldn't be there.
I think the problem with the pets is that there’s a fundamental disconnect between the pet art and the lore art. The pet art does a good job of making you feel like it’s a creature that needs to be nurtured while the official art and lore portrays sentient beings that wouldn’t need a human for care and that looks like they could and would easily kill you.

This disconnect doesn’t happen in Tamagotchi where all the sprites save early Mametchi look exactly like the concept art.

I’ve often wondered if the sprite forms most Digimon have should be canonized as official alternate voxel forms every Digimon has ala Dot Agumon, with the Dot forms potentially replacing the overuse of Child Digimon in most media.

To another extent, Bandai cannibalized it virtual pet audience in the west. In Japan, Tamagotchi is marketed almost exclusively towards girls with Digimon filling in the space of an “Otokochi” or “Boys Tamagotchi”. But in Europe and America Tamagotchi was re packaged as a more gender neutral toy in the early years with American Tama art being redesigned in a chalk art style to look more like a child’s notebook drawing instead of girlier pets.

I think this made Digimon virtual pets seem unnecessary in the west. Even if like Japan Tamagotchi’s rare us releases eventually relented and adopted Japanese art which had hyper focused even more on girls over the decades (early Tama characters were gender neutral and more animal like, later Tama are basically Bratz dolls and all their biographies now talk about how they all love fashion, shopping, and chasing after boys).
 

Nightwing

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I just want to add, I'm not sure where the idea that the Pokemon franchise is in a bad place is coming from. The games are selling better than they have in decades lol. That's not a point for or against the idea that Digimon needs consistency or should be centered around one arm of the franchise, but that's just something to keep in mind.

That said, I think Digimon has regained the consistency that it lost years ago. With the reboot anime leading the way, the V-pets and the card game are all lining up really well with each other and the anime. Not to mention the merchandising like figures that lines up as well, they each do a good job in working in tandem to target the right customer bases for each product from what I've seen. The actual sales and profits, that's something we'd need to see from Bandai and Toei of course.
 

e105zeta

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I just want to add, I'm not sure where the idea that the Pokemon franchise is in a bad place is coming from. The games are selling better than they have in decades lol. That's not a point for or against the idea that Digimon needs consistency or should be centered around one arm of the franchise, but that's just something to keep in mind.
Sales ain’t everything and it’s hard not to argue for Sword and Shield not being the worst games in the series. They not only have overall the worst critical reception, they’re also objectively light on content and have the graphics of a ps2/GameCube game. Digimon Cybersleuth is light on exploration and heavy on fetch quests but it’s a port of a vita game and it looks like it has 2 or 3 times the graphical content of Sword and Shield and nearly the same amount of obtainable monsters.

People are also (somewhat correctly) noting that the newer Pokemon under James Turner look more like American cartoon characters that don’t really mesh well with the Sumi ink anime style of the first four generations. It’s not quite as stark as the difference between (Zoids-Esque) X Digimon, classic (Todd Macfarline-esque ) Digimon, and modern Sentai (dragon knight tokusatsu) Digimon, but Pokémon’s universe is supposed to be more cohesive with less alternate universes so it sticks out more.
 

Nightwing

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I just want to add, I'm not sure where the idea that the Pokemon franchise is in a bad place is coming from. The games are selling better than they have in decades lol. That's not a point for or against the idea that Digimon needs consistency or should be centered around one arm of the franchise, but that's just something to keep in mind.
Sales ain’t everything and it’s hard not to argue for Sword and Shield not being the worst games in the series. They not only have overall the worst critical reception, they’re also objectively light on content and have the graphics of a ps2/GameCube game. Digimon Cybersleuth is light on exploration and heavy on fetch quests but it’s a port of a vita game and it looks like it has 2 or 3 times the graphical content of Sword and Shield and nearly the same amount of obtainable monsters.

People are also (somewhat correctly) noting that the newer Pokemon under James Turner look more like American cartoon characters that don’t really mesh well with the Sumi ink anime style of the first four generations. It’s not quite as stark as the difference between (Zoids-Esque) X Digimon, classic (Todd Macfarline-esque ) Digimon, and modern Sentai (dragon knight tokusatsu) Digimon, but Pokémon’s universe is supposed to be more cohesive with less alternate universes so it sticks out more.
This is a whole lot of words to say “I don’t like it.”

Feel however you want to feel, but the numbers are right there: the franchise as a whole is doing better than it has in years and the games are selling just under what they did 20 years ago, a point that the subsequent games have never been able to replicate. What does that tell you? For every one of you, there was at least one or or more people who lined up to buy the games. That’s purely from the numbers.

It’s not unlike tri. People will swear to you it ruined Digimon, but here we are in 2020, where we got the first ever, properly theatrical Digimon movie. We have a new card game. We had the X3, and now the Z. And so on.

Sales isn’t everything, and it doesn’t indicate quality. But it’s obviously an indication of success or failure. What you or others might think about the quality of either franchise is one thing, but to think either is in poor health is frankly delusional.

That said, if people want different products, that’s cool. I’d love a phone V-pet app, for example (I’ve been wanting that ever since I read the Re Digitize manga one-shot). Not arguing against that talk, just want to clarify that.
 

e105zeta

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I just want to add, I'm not sure where the idea that the Pokemon franchise is in a bad place is coming from. The games are selling better than they have in decades lol. That's not a point for or against the idea that Digimon needs consistency or should be centered around one arm of the franchise, but that's just something to keep in mind.
Sales ain’t everything and it’s hard not to argue for Sword and Shield not being the worst games in the series. They not only have overall the worst critical reception, they’re also objectively light on content and have the graphics of a ps2/GameCube game. Digimon Cybersleuth is light on exploration and heavy on fetch quests but it’s a port of a vita game and it looks like it has 2 or 3 times the graphical content of Sword and Shield and nearly the same amount of obtainable monsters.

People are also (somewhat correctly) noting that the newer Pokemon under James Turner look more like American cartoon characters that don’t really mesh well with the Sumi ink anime style of the first four generations. It’s not quite as stark as the difference between (Zoids-Esque) X Digimon, classic (Todd Macfarline-esque ) Digimon, and modern Sentai (dragon knight tokusatsu) Digimon, but Pokémon’s universe is supposed to be more cohesive with less alternate universes so it sticks out more.
This is a whole lot of words to say “I don’t like it.”

Feel however you want to feel, but the numbers are right there: the franchise as a whole is doing better than it has in years and the games are selling just under what they did 20 years ago, a point that the subsequent games have never been able to replicate. What does that tell you? For every one of you, there was at least one or or more people who lined up to buy the games. That’s purely from the numbers.

It’s not unlike tri. People will swear to you it ruined Digimon, but here we are in 2020, where we got the first ever, properly theatrical Digimon movie. We have a new card game. We had the X3, and now the Z. And so on.

Sales isn’t everything, and it doesn’t indicate quality. But it’s obviously an indication of success or failure. What you or others might think about the quality of either franchise is one thing, but to think either is in poor health is frankly delusional.

That said, if people want different products, that’s cool. I’d love a phone V-pet app, for example (I’ve been wanting that ever since I read the Re Digitize manga one-shot). Not arguing against that talk, just want to clarify that.
pokemon is basically a victim of its own success in that they were so reluctant to change the formula that each sequel was “the same but with a little more content and polish” until they gave up and it’s turned into “the same but with a little less content and polish”.

On the other hand for the first several Digimon world games, Digimon probably experimented too much. We went from vpet adventure game to dungeon crawler to traditional Jrpg to a gauntlet clone. Habu has helped focus the brand which is why Survive would concern me even without the colossal dev time screw ups they’re making.

That’s kind of why I can get annoyed with people complaining about the cybersleuth models and vpet sprites.

We’re hitting a wall in graphical fidelity where developers of b list titles (and defend pokemon all you want but pokemon titles, like Digimon, has a surprisingly small staff and budget for being the worlds highest grossing media franchise) where Developers have to choose between content and pretty graphics.

Inevitably they’re choosing graphics every time for major a and b list games. Personally I think that’s not sustainable. I don’t know how $70-80 games are going to fly in a global market with what seems like the least job security in the history of the planet.

And we’re seeing a lot of indie developers Put a lot more content and replayability and their games by using cheaper graphics or retro graphics.

You can also have the worst of both worlds, which I kind of feel like these new pendulums are. $40 for 26 raisable characters is pretty steep if you think of it in terms of a game. I know that they’re also hybrid toys and games. But there is so few things you can do with the pet.If there was some kind of connectivity between the Pets and the games which has been shown to be an idea in some of the manga, you might be able to raise the value of the pet without actually increasing a lot of the cost or hopefully the price by too much.

I also think they might be making marketing mistakes by revealing the content of these pets piecemeal. I probably would have bought three of the Z pendulums if I had known that was gonna be in each one of them to begin with. Now I probably won’t be getting any of them.
 

Lord Bearmon

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None of the Ultimates are random. They had to include AncientGreymon/Garurumon as the last two 10 Legendary Warriors, Qinglongmon as the last 4 Holy Beasts and Goddramon as the last 4 Great Dragons.
That leaves 2 more slots and they decided to give Agumon and Guilmon their full line instead of Shoutmon since they're more popular.
Marine Angemon is pretty random . It’s from the original wave of pendulums but doesn’t belong to any groups or is in any way special. They should’ve had Vikemon in its place.
I thought it was pretty obvious that we're only talking about Virus Busters here.
 

Chimera-gui

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At least Appmon were actually introduced as a new lifeform altogether with its own classification system that already has this consistency with itself hence why they shouldn't be retconned into Digimon as they can and more importantly should be allowed to exist as their own lifeform distinct from Digimon.
Aside from Rookies being able to jogress, Appmon already follow all the same rules as Digimon, though. And there are several games where Child Digimon are able to do that, too. And Appmon have nearly the same four stage leveling system (with the caveat that Baby 1 and Baby 2 mostly exist for lore in Digimon).

All Appmon did was make the designs a bit more chibi/super deformed than usual and renamed Child, Adult, Perfect, and Ultimate into Standard, Super, Ultimate, and God.
Do Digimon link with each other using cables sprouting from somewhere on their body? Didn't think so. What about storing into chips when not realized which is involved in the Applink process and by extension App Fusion? Again, didn't think so. And perhaps most importantly, do Digimon represent mobile applications? Again, didn't think so. What's more the Grades are not 1:1 with Digimon Levels as evidenced by Appmon such as Musclemon.

Appmon's rules are superficially (and that's the key word here) comparable to Digimon's because they had Digimon's rules to draw from during Appmon's development just as Digimon drew from Tamagotchi's rules during its development, that is not the same thing as actually following the same rules. Duel Masters and its reboot Kaijudo have rules comparable to Magic the Gathering because WotC used the latter's rules as the starting point for the former two during their development but that change the fact that all three are very different universes from each other.

If you tried to pull your so-called "logic" by playing Rothos the Destroyer in a Magic game, you'd rightly get a beating for being a moron. Just because two lifeforms have comparable anatomy does not make them the same damn thing, it's called convergent evolution and it's kind of recurring thing in nature.
 
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Bartz

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People are also (somewhat correctly) noting that the newer Pokemon under James Turner look more like American cartoon characters that don’t really mesh well with the Sumi ink anime style of the first four generations. It’s not quite as stark as the difference between (Zoids-Esque) X Digimon, classic (Todd Macfarline-esque ) Digimon, and modern Sentai (dragon knight tokusatsu) Digimon, but Pokémon’s universe is supposed to be more cohesive with less alternate universes so it sticks out more.
Ironic, back in the day people complained about both Gen 3 and 4 not fitting the aesthetic of the original generations, and they've been saying that for each generation since so it's not new at all. Additionally, looking at the Google PotY poll from a few months back most fans don't seem to be nearly as put off by the new designs as you're implying as they've done about as well as most of the other sets. Your point is not supported by any actual data and is instead derived from a vocal minority that doesn't speak for the entirety of the fanbase, they fit just as well as any Gen 3, 5 or 7 Pokemon did, whether you agree is up to subjective opinion.
 

e105zeta

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Do Digimon link with each other using cables sprouting from somewhere on their body? Didn't think so. What about storing into chips when not realized which is involved in the Applink process and by extension App Fusion? Again, didn't think so. And perhaps most importantly, do Digimon represent mobile applications? Again, didn't think so. What's more the Grades are not 1:1 with Digimon Levels as evidenced by Appmon such as Musclemon.
Digimon have been stored in Digital Devices when not realized since Savers, depending on the needs of the story. Xross Wars literally had Digimon stored on chips, lol.

Any DigiXross that doesn’t result in complete fusion like Musou Knightmon, Shoutmon x Dorulumon, and Shoutmon xSparrowmon is functionally similar to Applink, and many Digimon such as Pipismon are born from programs, which are the exact same thing as Apps (applications weren’t invented byApple for the iPhone, lol).

You might as well argue that all of the Xross Wars Digimon weren’t real Digimon because they didn’t have attributes, levels, and only evolved by DigiXross for most of the franchise.

You could actually make a case that Gaossmon, Cutemon etc. were less Digimon than all of the Appmon until the recent retcons.

Or that DORUmon and Ryudamon can’t be real Digimon because of the glass Digital interface ports on their heads, if you want to bring up the silly cable thing.

Certainly doesn’t help that the anime abandon most of the stuff that you claim made application monsters unique later in the season to make it more like a traditional Digimon season, with the partner Appmon starting to evolve and fight without Applink.

Everythin Appmon can do or be was done by Digimon first. The name change, as I said before, was clearly an attempt to market two different brands of the same franchise. Shin Megami Tensei tried this with the Devil Children franchise - separating it into a kids line and a teenager/adult line by design differences. It’s still fundamentally the same thing.

Marketing, not deep lore.

If they wanted Appmon and Digimon to coexistas distinct beings they shouldn’t have made the Appmon chibi Digimon withcables. Literally in the cases of Jetmon, Gomimon, Resshamon, Mirrormon. Probably shouldn’t have stuck mon on all their names, too.
 
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Vande

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Ok, as we are not getting reports on this. This round in circles stops now. People have made it clear more than once on their feelings towards this V-Pet.

Also what I will also say, there is no need to be rude in the reports that people make either. Cause that is just as bad, if not worse than the bickering.
 

Youkomon

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Is Baluchimon a pre evolution of SkullBaluchimon?
 

Muur

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Is Baluchimon a pre evolution of SkullBaluchimon?
They're not in the vpet together (same for Piranimon and MetalPiranimon) but that'll probably be what future media will do.
 

e105zeta

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Is Baluchimon a pre evolution of SkullBaluchimon?
Skull Baluchimon is made from Baluchimons mismatched bones, if you want to count that as an evolution.
 

Tetsuya Suoh

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So, I noticed yesterday that Digimon.net recently did put up the first ecology report for Vi Busters. Not sure if I should post it or just let the mods take a look, but it's there.
 

e105zeta

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It was posted but the post seems to be in some sort of limbo where sometimes I can see it and sometimes not.
 

Tetsuya Suoh

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It was posted but the post seems to be in some sort of limbo where sometimes I can see it and sometimes not.
Do you mean here, or on Digimon.net. Because I never see it here, but it appears on consistantly on digimon.net for me.

EDIT:Okay, I see. They did a weird thing there they linked it here instead of just adding it to this post, but it doesn't seem to want to appear on the main page for some reason.
 
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