Ophanimon Rant *Spoilers*

[Muur]

The posters aren't misleading at all to the important stuff in tri.

What counts as "important stuff" can sometimes depend on the viewer, though.

He Digimon becoming evil is pretty dang important.

 

[MarcFBR]

The posters aren't misleading at all to the important stuff in tri.

What counts as "important stuff" can sometimes depend on the viewer, though.

He Digimon becoming evil is pretty dang important.

I understand the point they are trying to make, but it's not insanely relevant overall when the posters are rather minimal as the tri. posters have been. The general usage of elements in the tri. posters has been focused enough that yes, the elements on the posters have been important to each part of tri. thus far.


I mean, there is nothing on the poster itself that 'says' Ophanimon Falldown Mode is going to act as a villain character (the poses of the Digimon don't lead to figuring out if one is an enemy in the fashion other posters did for example.) It's just the conclusion we all draw from the Digimon used, how Hikari appears, etc.

 

[SharpeBB]

It's not that the posters are misleading, but rather that they are more ambiguous, and thus open for interpretation. Simply having a character(s) on a poster doesn't explain what's going to happen. We didn't inherently know Patamon was going to be infected in Confession. We didn't know we'd only see Ophanimon Falldown Mode for 20 seconds in Symbiosis. I get why people can feel that they've been misled, but it's really down to misinterpretation.

Personally, I think the ambiguity of the posters has been, and is good in keeping interest and discussion. I mean, the Symbiosis poster has spawned this 33 page thread.

 

[Kingbeemon]

Ehhh I think all the posters till now have been pretty accurate in depicting what will happen in the end of the movie and build anticipation on what to expect.

I agree with marcfbr that people only consider the posters misleading because whatever they expected to happen or whatever assumptions a person superimposed on the poster didn't happen.

Most of the posters been clear cut on a fight that would occur, movie 5 didn't have raguelmon and ophanimon fall down mode fighting but they were in the movie.

The latest poster for movie 6 is most ambiguous but we at least have a guarantee all poster characters will appear in the movie.

 

[SharpeBB]

I agree that the posters have been accurate. They have in no way lied about anything that's happened. They've showed the major evolutions of the films, and some major enemies. But my point was just showing some predominant characters doesn't give anything major away, and is thus ambiguous. SO I was agreeing with Marc that people feel mislead it's on them, and what they interpreted.

 

[Kon]

The tri. posters may have elements that lend themselves to suggestions (or even speculation) but they are accurate to the elements in each part.

This is true. That's why I said, these posters didn't lie us.

I used the word "misleading", but it seems this doesn't fit (English isn't my main language).

I just want to say the same thing that you, the posters had certain elements that lend themselves to suggestions that didn't happen at the end.

Hikari had a number of elements in Part 5 that were important, perhaps not as much as many people would want (and more Hikari is always better), but it also isn't 'that' different then stuff we've seen before in prior parts. And the fact that the cliffhanger at the end involves her in a large way is certainly relevant to Part 5. Hikari in Part 5 didn't feel that different to me than say... Koushiro or Takeru in Part 3.

I agree with this.

I don't think her role in Part 5 was so different from Koushiro in Part 3 (I think Takeru had a little more prominence). Also, as I said, I think Hikari had more development in Part 5 than Yamato in Part 1.

 

[MarcFBR]

I used the word "misleading", but it seems this doesn't fit (English isn't my main language).

It's more a case of... the posters are very minimal detail wise.

And they are true and honest to each film...
but the minimalistic nature of them, while also showing us things based around the climax of each film, begs for people to try and theorize.

I'd say they are built to make us trick/mislead ourselves, but they don't give us anything that is inherently misleading.


I'd say in general we are more used to film posters being sort of generic for films and shows in general. tri. having such targeted posters really does make it so we 'want' to imagine what is happening.

 

[Libra]

I can't believe all the arguments about one simple object. The ring has nothing to do with anything even if it's officially announced to have an influence on Tailmon's evo line!!!! It's so simple, unlike the time of DHT, there is a more iteresting and fitting candidate for Tailmon which completely outranks Holydramon in any aspect.
The most obvious one is that the new designs fits better with the definition of evolution itself. A humanoid female becoming a beast-like monster is not evolution unless one believes that the beasts are more evolved than humans!
It fits better with the other two lines of holy angels in Adventure universe, the two being patamon's and meicoomon's.
It's in harmony with three fallen or devilish beings in Tri. Ophanimon Falldown Mode, Raguelmon, and Ordinemon.
It's simply more beautiful and complicated than Holydramon. Again, a purple goat like dragon being an evolved form really sucks. The design is so simple and if it was not for the number of the wing pairs, I couldn't believe it to have a higher level than Angewomon. I think they sould make a white six winged version of Holydramon and place it between Tailmon and Angewomon. There would be the best location for her from which she can really EVOLVE to a humanoid angel. But this won't be happening due to OBVIOUS reasons.

But the problem of the tail ring is different. The cast can easily use or abuse what the fandom likes to believe, so if they try to explain the different mega levels of Tailmon using the ring debate, I won't be surprised, because its super obvious that they would just be using a pre-existing idea rather than inventing a new one. This is why I'm telling the ring is not the real reason behind choosing Ophanimon even if it is proposed officially. The reason is that Ophanimon is better. Just this. I repeat myself. Ophanimon is better. Cooler. More estheticially pleasing. More evolved, as humans are more evolved than beast generally. Maybe more famous. More cherished. More lovable. More fitting. More .............

It's not my own opinion though. I used to like Holydramon more than Ophanimon, but this doesn't change the fact that Ophanimon is more popular amongst the fandom. Face it and try not to deduce things in a fantastic unreal imaginary universe. Tailmon will evolve to whatever the cast chooses and there are many different factors affecting their decision. Whatever they are, THE ONLY THING THAT DOESN'T PREVENT THEM FROM CHOOSING HOLYDRAMON IS THE TAIL RING. It's a foolish assumption to think that they are obliged to use Ophanimon because Tailmon has her ring. They have complete freedom in their selections and only the fittest will survive that, lol. Ring may then be used to appease the part of the fandom who feels defeated and neglected.

It's pleasant to discuss different possibilities and explanations but we should be aware not to fool ourselves and become slaves of our own subjective judgment. The reality behind the actions of the digimon cast is determined by the rules of the real world we are living in not the rules of the digital world. Don't forget about it.

@Kingbeemon, you also need to respect the people who spend their time to discuss your answers and read their posts properly instead of just saying the same thing over and over and neglecting whatever they are trying to say.

 

[Teddyzmon]

Well, I think the answer is more straightforward, Seraphimon ships better with Ophanimon. I would be more surprised if they went with Holydramon eventhough everyone is saying that it's Tailmon's 'natural' evolution line.
I never thought Tailmon's ring is ever that important, it always seemed like something they added on as an afterthought during the design stage.

 

[Kon]

Well, I think the answer is more straightforward, Seraphimon ships better with Ophanimon. I would be more surprised if they went with Holydramon eventhough everyone is saying that it's Tailmon's 'natural' evolution line.
I never thought Tailmon's ring is ever that important, it always seemed like something they added on as an afterthought during the design stage.

If Tri uses Ophanimon, this will probably be because Ophanimom is more popular than Holydramon. However, I really doubt the popularity of Ophanimon is due to shiptease with Seraphimon (at most, this is a minor reason).

It's more likely that the popularity of Ophanimon is because her design is more similar to Angewomon (while Holydramon is pretty different). After all, Angewomon is a pretty popular Digimon (she seems to be more popular than Angemon).

 

[Xadhoom]

A humanoid female becoming a beast-like monster is not evolution unless one believes that the beasts are more evolved than humans!

By scientific definition, humans aren't more or less evolved than animals, since evolution is not a game where you can score points. By Digimon definition, Myotismon -> VenomMyotismon and Lucemon Chaos Mode -> Shadowlord Mode would disagree with you.

It fits better with the other two lines of holy angels in Adventure universe, the two being patamon's and meicoomon's.

Holydramon being a divine creature with a fire attack parallels Seraphimon as much as Ophanimon having similar-ish armor, and Holydramon being a bestial divine creature parallels Rasielmon.

It's simply more beautiful and complicated than Holydramon.

So by that logic, every other Mega that isn't conventionally attractive also needs to go. How about Seraphimon first? Suits of armor just aren't hot.

a purple goat like dragon being an evolved form really sucks.

That entirely is your opinion, regardless of what you declare it.

The reason is that Ophanimon is better. Cooler.

Both Holydramon and Ophanimon in their primary anime appearances amounted to being a chick who got smacked by a Cherubimon, and was a cheap source of power-up for the main two heroes.

humans are more evolved than beast generally

You already know why that's not applicable in context of this franchise.

this doesn't change the fact that Ophanimon is more popular amongst the fandom

Popularity polls. Show me.

 

[Theigno]

The design is so simple and if it was not for the number of the wing pairs, I couldn't believe it to have a higher level than Angewomon.

There is a simple reason for that... Holydramon originally debuted as a perfect in Digital Monster ver.S evolving from directly from Tailmon (Angewomon being the alternate perfect).

 

[Libra]

Tkanks @Xadhoom for the points.

Evolution is not a game but you do can put the different species into a hierarchical order when it comes to the concept of evolution. Though different criteria may lead to different scoring systems but it doesn't equal the lack of any hierarchy. About the digimon, I think I couldn't clearly mention the point, it is not about a line with no alternative, but for those with multiple branches, bestial ones have a lesser xhance of absorbing attention. Venomvamdemon is the evolved form of vamdemon but he again gains control over his instincts to become Belial Vamdemon. The latter acts and think like a human not a beast and is the final form in the evolution line. Though you might argue that Venomvamdemon is more powerfull in digimon hunters but I can't remember if it evolved from Belial Vamdemon or Vamdemon. Weregarurumon is a beast digimon but the next step in his evolution is Omegamon who is not a beast. When it came to choose between megas for Gommamon, Vikemon got the upper hand and won against the bestial Plesiomon who was the original form for her evolution. In case of Ogudomon and Lucemon's higher forms, they are mindless creatures who just bring destruction and are fitter to this purpose rather than a humanoid mindfull one, they are more suitable for the situation, but you tell me, what is the point for a human angel to loose his humanity to grow more holy features? Do holy power require the owner to becone a beast to get stronger?

Rasielmon is a bipedal humanoid holy angel cat and though her face, body, and limbs represent those of a beast, but her stance and more importantly her clothes makes it a bit hard to consider her as a purely bestial creature. Maybe you've got a point in the case of Raguelmon or Cherubimon, but Rasielmon is a bit hard to classify. On the other hand, even if you consider Rasielmon a beast, she is still another version of Ophanimon as her profile implies and thus she is more connected to the Ophanimon rather than Holydramon. Not to mention that there are obvious elements in Ophanimon's design that are connected to the beasts and can still be connected to Rasielmon design wise.

The less attractive and powerfull looking ones are being replaced or relocated as better designs come into existence in the whole franchise. It goes that far to have Seraphimon evolve to Slash Angemon in heroes in spite of his higher rank in the Archangel hierarchy. I will say one more time, the cast is not bounded by what happened in the past. They can make changes whenever they want and MAKE NEW EXCUSES for that. A lot of them happened in Tri. regarding the rules and rulers of digital world, concept of reborth, and in the case of Gommamon, the mega form. Even in the case of Seraphimon, the design improved a lot from DHT to Frontier, and to Tri. BUT CAN SOMEONE TELL THAT IF PATAMON WEAR A PINK BELT AROUND HIS ABDOMEN, HE EVOLVES TO THE FRONTIER STYLE SERAPHIMON AND THE BARE PATAMON EVOLVES TO TRI. SERAPHIMON? A shift from uglier designs to better ones is not restricted by the events of the past. And Seraphimon is good enough to remain Patamon's mega while having minor changes as newer ideas come into existence.

Your point about both forms being defeated by Cherubimon is completely valid. I think that part of my post was not correct.

Also about the popularity, I think you are right. It is not amatter of deduction too.

Thanks @Theigno. I didn't know that, but it seems my intuition was right, lol. She was not supposed to be a mega digimon in the first place. It would be more reasonable if they stuck to that line instead of messing with everything like this and put themselves into lots of trouble, lol.

 

[Kon]

Both Holydramon and Ophanimon in their primary anime appearances amounted to being a chick who got smacked by a Cherubimon, and was a cheap source of power-up for the main two heroes.

Ophanimon still had an important role as a guide in Frontier. Then, even if she did not do much at the action level (although her battle with Cherubimon was more interesting), she still had a better role than Holydramon in Hurricane Touchdown.

Popularity polls. Show me.

Unfortunately, none of these evolutions seems popular enough to enter the Japanese polls of Digimon.

However, you can notice that Ophanimon began to take the role of Gatomon's main mega evolution in the franchise since her appareance in 2002. So this seems to imply that Ophanimon was more popular (not to mention that that the group of Three Great Angels was better known than the group of Four Great Dragons).

After the announcement of Tri, Holydramon seems to be treated again as the main mega evolution in the franchise. That's the reason I was sure Holydramon would the mega evolution of Tailmon in Tri.

I don't know how it the actual situation after Part 5. What is the main mega evolution of Tailmon in Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth - Hacker's Memory evolution?

 

[Xadhoom]

Evolution is not a game but you do can put the different species into a hierarchical order when it comes to the concept of evolution.

Only in the sense "how well-adapted is this specific species for its specific environ".

what is the point for a human angel to loose his humanity

You know as well as I do that Angewomon has no biological humanity to lose upon the evolution to Mega, and no spiritual humanity gained when Gatomon evolved to the form.

Do holy power require the owner to becone a beast to get stronger?

It doesn't, and the angels demonstrate that. It also doesn't require turning into an anthropomorphic form, like Phoenixmon, Holydramon and Azulongmon demonstrate.

she is still another version of Ophanimon as her profile implies

What the profile is saying is Rasiel's of the Ophan class like Ophanimon, not that she's an Ophanimon-variation like Lilithmon.

there are obvious elements in Ophanimon's design that are connected to the beasts

There aren't references to random animals, but to how the bible describes cherubim.

uglier designs to better ones

Even if Holydramon was ugly, it wouldn't be worse than Ophanimon. They're warriors, not participants in a beauty contest.

Ophanimon still had an important role as a guide in Frontier. Then, even if she did not do much at the action level (although her battle with Cherubimon was more interesting), she still had a better role than Holydramon in Hurricane Touchdown.

Sure, okay.

However, you can notice that Ophanimon began to take the role of Gatomon's main mega evolution in the franchise since her appareance in 2002.

I've looked that up, and that doesn't actually seem to be happening.

Frontier only shows Salamon as that Ophanimon's Rookie, no overt indication within that series about its evoline (even if it being an Adventure throw-back can be taken to fill the blanks). Other Ophanimon appearances as a character like in the World and Story games has the Ophanimon appear at Mega and never devolving below that.The only other instance of a Gatomon character evolving to Mega is in Next Order, where it's Holydramon.

 

[Kon]

I've looked that up, and that doesn't actually seem to be happening.

Frontier only shows Salamon as that Ophanimon's Rookie, no overt indication within that series about its evoline (even if it being an Adventure throw-back can be taken to fill the blanks). Other Ophanimon appearances as a character like in the World and Story games has the Ophanimon appear at Mega and never devolving below that.The only other instance of a Gatomon character evolving to Mega is in Next Order, where it's Holydramon.

In Adventure PSP game, Gatomon evolves in Ophanimon.

I'm not speaking only about Ophanimon or Gatomon as a character. I was referring to the predominance that the franchice gives Ophanimon (since her creation) over Holydramon.

For example: In Cyber Sleuth, Ophanimon appears as the first option of evolution for Angewomon. Of course, there are other options (as Holydramon), but the first option is Ophanimon.

Another games, it also gives Ophanimon as the first option for mega evolution of Gatomon.


In Next Order, the first option is Holydramon. However, this was the point I was referring: After Tri announcement, Holydramon get predominance again.

I don't know who will be the first option in Hacker Memory.

 

[Jaybird C]

However, you can notice that Ophanimon began to take the role of Gatomon's main mega evolution in the franchise since her appareance in 2002.

I've looked that up, and that doesn't actually seem to be happening.

Frontier only shows Salamon as that Ophanimon's Rookie, no overt indication within that series about its evoline (even if it being an Adventure throw-back can be taken to fill the blanks). Other Ophanimon appearances as a character like in the World and Story games has the Ophanimon appear at Mega and never devolving below that.The only other instance of a Gatomon character evolving to Mega is in Next Order, where it's Holydramon.

I have to side with Kon here; Ophanimon displaced Holydramon as Angewomon's Final stage pretty much everywhere once she was introduced. She was even Adventure-verse Tailmon's Final in Battle Spirits 1.5, pre-Frontier.

 

[Xadhoom]

I was referring to the predominance that the franchice gives Ophanimon (since her creation) over Holydramon.

I don't agree that this predominance, if it is a thing, can be discerned that way.

I mean, you're looking at Cyber Sleuth, seeing "the game allows both" and concluding "Ophanimon is first available, and this means something deeper than 'the devs arbitrarily did it this way in this one game'".

An old-ass game (Digital Monster: D-Project) has Holydramon as the DNA of Ophanimon and Seraphimon, so does that mean the franchise there black-and-white said "Holydramon is the evolved form of Ophanimon"? How about Masters, that does the opposite of Cyber Sleuth - Ophani is more difficult to unlock, but both she and Holy are accessible as branched paths from A. What does that indicate?

 

[Libra]

@Xadhoom sorry that I don't reply one by one.

There are in fact many holy beast digimon but as I said many of them like Phoenixmon and Azulongmon don't have humanoid counterparts to vompete for the place, so it's not a surprise to see them as mega forms of some digimon but the problem arises when a humanoid form comes into existence like the case of Holydramon. So the conditions are not the same. My point is that there are few examples when beast types stand on top of a line that includes humanoids.

It seems I might've misunderstood the profile info but it was the impression I got when I read the profile.

Though Ophanimon's armor includes the head of animals consistent with the mythllogical Ophan, I can't recognize those of the Falldown Mode's armor to belong to a specific angel describe in bible. I'd appreciate it if you let me know if there is any

Finally, by ugly I didn't mean a specific design and rather mentioned a general fact while talking about different Seraphimon designs. I do believe that his Tri. version is way better than the one appeared in DHT. One more time, I emphasize that I like the Holydramon because of specific reasons, specially the one with Tri. style design who has larger snout and is less goat like. But I'm not the one to decide and the appearance of Ophanimon Falldown Mode and the undeniable correspondence between Meicoomon and Tailmon lines makes it less probable for Holydramon to show up in the anime. There is a very big chance of not seeing Ophanimon too. Ophanimon Falldown Mode might be the only one who appears as Tailmon's mega but even if it is to be changed into any other form for an slit second, I can't expect that to be Holydramon.

 

[TMS]

Though Ophanimon's armor includes the head of animals consistent with the mythllogical Ophan, I can't recognize those of the Falldown Mode's armor to belong to a specific angel describe in bible. I'd appreciate it if you let me know if there is any

The animals of Fall-Down Mode's armor are associated with Asmodeus, who represents the sin of lust (Lilithmon's "Code" on her seal is Asmodeus).