Kizuna Spoiler Thread

Golden_Fate

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Taken on its own that argument leads nowhere because by the same logic I could argue that the user manual for my washing machine should be considered a canon part of Digimon Adventure because while it might be inconsistent with the story for Adventure so is the Anime itself etc.
You are of course relying on the assumption that I believe the other movies are canon. But of course... if the other movies had the kind of inconsistencies that movie 3 had, then yes indeed I would argue that they couldn't be canon either. But they don't.
You gotta let it go, man...it happened. If the cameo is real then the movie is canon to this movie. End note. You can keep arguing it to make yourself feel better, I suppose. But magical evolution's pulled out of their butts don't make it non-canon, it makes it a shonen anime movie. You guys are really over complicating it. Do you really think they put him in there and made a note saying that he's from a different continuity?
 
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Nightwing

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Kizuna is the last movie in original Adventure series, but it didn't solve the problem of two Vikemons. Wish they showed the mega forms of Sylphymon and Shakkoumon in this final Adventure movie.
I was hoping for the same thing since we are going to see Silphymon in one of the Memorial Shorts, but I wasn’t expecting it in a movie about Taichi.

If they ever continue past Kizuna with the 02 cast, I assume we’d get what we want then.
 

arisniko1

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Kizuna is the last movie in original Adventure series, but it didn't solve the problem of two Vikemons. Wish they showed the mega forms of Sylphymon and Shakkoumon in this final Adventure movie.
I was hoping for the same thing since we are going to see Silphymon in one of the Memorial Shorts, but I wasn’t expecting it in a movie about Taichi.

If they ever continue past Kizuna with the 02 cast, I assume we’d get what we want then.
How do you know we'll see Silphymon in one of the shorts?

EDIT: Never mind. I read it.
 
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Seer

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No game would match the buzz another movie or even some sort of tri-like OVA would generate and they are not just going to let that chance go by, especially after ending on a cliffhanger that people want to see them resolve properly.
And more characters just means they can make more movies if they feel like it.
If they're hoping to make another movie, then I don't know why they promoted this one as Taichi's last adventure. People might want to see a resolution, but the hype for another movie is going to be reduced after this one didn't deliver. It's like the boy that cried wolf.

That would be a stupid twist. Why would those characters dream about being children ten years in the future? And how would they justify representing the technology of 2020 in any sort of accurate state if they are going to claim it's based on people in 2010 fantasizing about it?
I don't know why you're assuming that they would be dreaming in 2010 rather than 2020. The 02 epilogue takes place in 2027 last I checked, so as of Kizuna there are still 17 years for the characters to make things right. They could even connect the two continuities via another movie with or without a dream, but at least that movie would have something different about it and appeal to new viewers, as well.
 
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Kon

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You gotta let it go, man...it happened. If the cameo is real then the movie is canon to this movie. End note. You can keep arguing it to make yourself feel better, I suppose. But magical evolution's pulled out of their butts don't make it non-canon, it makes it a shonen anime movie. You guys are really over complicating it. Do you really think they put him in there and made a note saying that he's from a different continuity?
I totally agree with this. I don't think there is a reason why Toei would put the character of an old movie in Kizuna if they don't consider Hurricane Touchdown part of the Adventure canon (they could just not show character).

However, I really think this discussion should end in this thread, since it really seems off-topic.
 
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Jaybird C

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If they're hoping to make another movie, then I don't know why they promoted this one as Taichi's last adventure. People might want to see a resolution, but the hype for another movie is going to be reduced after this one didn't deliver. It's like the boy that cried wolf.
The advertising promising us "Taichi's last adventure" is at the very least trying to generate hype, very likely to mitigate the diminishing returns of five? straight years' worth of Adventure movies. I know Toei called tri. a "success", but do we have any sales figures and costs to ratify that? Ever since DALEK was announced I've been suspicious, and with the frequently announced reboot even more so, as to why Toei is so blatantly determined to cram Adventure -- and the evidence strongly suggests it's cheaply made, rehashed, watered down Adventure -- down our throats all at once all of a sudden. It certainly doesn't suggest confidence in the longevity of the franchise.

Back on topic, the promise of "Taichi's last adventure" has yet to be proven false (reboot notwithstanding -- it's not a new Adventure, it's a new Taichi!). The original timeline has enough cast to produce more cinematic pot-boilers focusing on the other kids, though if they're serious about it, they'd probably translate into an 02 phase, lest they out themselves as blatant liars and cheats.
 

Kon

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The advertising promising us "Taichi's last adventure" is at the very least trying to generate hype, very likely to mitigate the diminishing returns of five? straight years' worth of Adventure movies. I know Toei called tri. a "success", but do we have any sales figures and costs to ratify that? Ever since DALEK was announced I've been suspicious, and with the frequently announced reboot even more so, as to why Toei is so blatantly determined to cram Adventure -- and the evidence strongly suggests it's cheaply made, rehashed, watered down Adventure -- down our throats all at once all of a sudden. It certainly doesn't suggest confidence in the longevity of the franchise.

Back on topic, the promise of "Taichi's last adventure" has yet to be proven false (reboot notwithstanding -- it's not a new Adventure, it's a new Taichi!). The original timeline has enough cast to produce more cinematic pot-boilers focusing on the other kids, though if they're serious about it, they'd probably translate into an 02 phase, lest they out themselves as blatant liars and cheats.
Tri was succesful. That's why, after Tri, we have a movie like Last Kizuna and Adventure reboot to attract new kid fans.

The success of Tri is not only measured with ticket sales or Blu-ray/DVD sales (which are pretty good for limited broadcast movies like Tri), but also merchandise sales since an anime serves to promote merchandise.

In this forum, I've heard complaints that they release "too much" merchandise, but they wouldn't do it if Tri wasn't successful.


However, the situation of Digimon franchise isn't so good, since Adventure is its only really popular Digimon anime.

Many succesful franchises of Toei (like Precure, Sentai or Kamen Rider) have a lot of popular seasons. These release a new anime with a different group each year.

Tri (and Kizuna) existed exclusively to appeal old fans (of Adventure), this was obvious from the format they have. Tri was succesful on that aspect (and probably exceeded expectations), so we have Kizuna after that.

However, they can't keep the anime forever like this (only appealing older fans of Adventure). That's why the Adventure reboot will try to appeal new kids like other TV anime of Toei.



PS: In fact, Toei already tried to appeal kids with Appmon, but it failed. So, they are trying the Adventure reboot direction.
 
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MarcFBR

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Toei gives out financial reports. We generally don't report on them unless specific statements are made because, by and large, people don't understand how to read them, and aren't actually interested in financial breakdowns (in fact, when we give out where things are on sales charts, which are much easier numbers to read, most people don't pay attention to those either, and they are often immediately forgotten, or misinterpreted, like the small army of people who think Tamers on Blu-ray bombed.) So we wait until they make specific statements, which they occasionally do.


tri. in theaters did better than expected, and the home video release outdid larger titles (as I recall it outdid the Pretty Cure movie by 5x on home video, which was noted in the same report as one of their major titles for the period.)

It becomes harder to gauge when you also realize home video sales matter less for titles that sell product, and that tri. was 'also' available digitally day 1 (before a home video release was available, which makes the sales more notable for tri.)


The fact that you are 'suspicious' breaks down to the weird paranoia fans have that things have to have secrets, when most often they honestly don't, at least not that well. And of course, it makes discussing it mostly worthless, as if you are gonna say 'x' information we have might not be real, then that's basically the argument for everything.


Toei and Bandai aren't our friends, and they don't particularly care if Adventure is the Digimon thing that makes them money. They care 'because' Adventure is the thing that makes them the money, despite attempts to try other things.


The tri. films were, marketing, release, and to a degree, production wise, not movies, even if they functionally 'were' low budget movies. If Kizuna comes out and it's numbers in theaters are equivalent to any single part of tri., I'd say it's a failure until such time that I get more information explaining why it wasn't.


In a later report they also made it super clear, tri. was a targeted attempt to get the fans back. What comes next (at the time there was no specific title, but they seemingly were referring to Kizuna and likely :), were going wider with the net.


On top of that, a big point of most franchises, especially stuff like a Digimon, a Sentai, etc. is to be the sales engine. Which tri. definitely did gangbusters for, and the general leadup to Kizuna has been doing the same.



Go track down sales for Dragon Ball Super on home video in Japan. The numbers are beyond shockingly low to most people. But they aren't super concerned with home video sales, it's the shows job to prime the pump for merchandise. That people watch the show, go and buy merch, and don't buy the home video release isn't really a concern for them, as long as the money is being spent. (That tri. sold on home video, when it was available digitally early, with theatrical screenings at roughly the same time, and gobs of merch on shelves, is just a bonus.)
 

Theigno

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If they're hoping to make another movie, then I don't know why they promoted this one as Taichi's last adventure.
Others have answered that part already so I don't really have much to add, besides the sentiment that there are plenty of things they can do to make other movies not Taichi's adventure.

I don't know why you're assuming that they would be dreaming in 2010 rather than 2020.
Because I was assuming the implication was that the dream would be part of Eosmon's escapist Neverland, where people remain young and stay with their partners forever, as a psychological parallel to their souls' abduction. It would make no sense to have an entire anime's worth of elaborate dream sequences otherwise.

You gotta let it go, man...it happened. If the cameo is real then the movie is canon to this movie. End note. You can keep arguing it to make yourself feel better, I suppose. But magical evolution's pulled out of their butts don't make it non-canon, it makes it a shonen anime movie. You guys are really over complicating it. Do you really think they put him in there and made a note saying that he's from a different continuity?
Considering how you clearly have not considered the point about how cameos work, conveniently overlook any other arguments that have been made, make random accusations based on preconceived criticisms about the movie that I never claimed to subscribe to and your avatar and name alone make me seriously doubt your overall capability staying neutral on the matter, rest assured that I don't actually believe your opinion could be changed by anything. But luckily, you might not be the only one reading this thread.
 
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Golden_Fate

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Considering how you clearly have not considered the point about how cameos work, conveniently overlook any other arguments that have been made, make random accusations based on preconceived criticisms about the movie that I never claimed to subscribe to and your avatar and name alone make me seriously doubt your overall capability staying neutral on the matter, rest assured that I don't actually believe your opinion could be changed by anything. But luckily, you might not be the only one reading this thread.
See. And there's our problem. Why do you need to change anyone's mind on the subject? I guarentee you're putting way more thought in its canonicity than the actual people behind the series did.
 

Seer

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If they're hoping to make another movie, then I don't know why they promoted this one as Taichi's last adventure.
Others have answered that part already so I don't really have much to add, besides the sentiment that there are plenty of things they can do to make other movies not Taichi's adventure.
I haven't seen any satisfying explanation, no. The fact of the matter is that if Kizuna doesn't do as well as expected, a sequel will be far from obvious. As for the idea to replace Taichi... Okay? This movie is primarily about him losing Agumon, so why shouldn't the resolution involve him in a big way?

Because I was assuming the implication was that the dream would be part of Eosmon's escapist Neverland, where people remain young and stay with their partners forever, as a psychological parallel to their souls' abduction. It would make no sense to have an entire anime's worth of elaborate dream sequences otherwise.
It would make sense because this time the protagonists would willingly subject themselves to a dream reality after having lost their partners, as opposed to being forced to do that by a villain. It doesn't matter if Eosmon will be involved, but it might as it will still exist in 2020.
 
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arisniko1

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Considering how you clearly have not considered the point about how cameos work, conveniently overlook any other arguments that have been made, make random accusations based on preconceived criticisms about the movie that I never claimed to subscribe to and your avatar and name alone make me seriously doubt your overall capability staying neutral on the matter, rest assured that I don't actually believe your opinion could be changed by anything. But luckily, you might not be the only one reading this thread.
See. And there's our problem. Why do you need to change anyone's mind on the subject? I guarentee you're putting way more thought in its canonicity than the actual people behind the series did.
Actually it's you who's stating this cameo means the 3rd movie is cannon for sure -ergo "changing minds"- while many here have stated arguments regarding the cameo AND the movie's canonicity despite that cameo. That's what Theigno is trying to say. Whatever the case we should AT LEAST try to be neutral. We make our case on the matter and that's it. Digimon Adventure canonicity and rules that havent been made clear in the series have made fans (myself included) to make our headcanons as explanations go for years. For example I believe that if Tailmon went Ultimate before the D3 happened it would be Ofanimon. After D3 it's Holydramon but because Holydramon doesnt have a dark evo it was Ofanimon FM. The same goes about my beliefs regarding movie 3.
 

Kon

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I really think we should end this discussion about Movie 3. Wallace appearance is likely just a cameo along Meiko and Catherine (maybe other worldwide digidestined of 02 too). It isn't so relevant for this thread.



I haven't seen any satisfying explanation, no. The fact of the matter is that if Kizuna doesn't do as well as expected, a sequel will be far from obvious. As for the idea to replace Taichi... Okay? This movie is primarily about him losing Agumon, so why shouldn't the resolution involve him in a big way?
We still don't know if there is going to be a sequel, maybe Toei doesn't even know it.

In itself, a sequel isn't necessary as we know how this will end (02 Epilogue). The end with Taichi's thesis indicates that he plans to go in that direction.

If a sequel happen, it may not even have the same staff as Kizuna. Then, we can't really predict anything about this.
 
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Nightwing

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Honestly I’m not sure why people think we need a sequel now that I think about it. For all we know, Taichi might just make his way to the Digital World as an ambassador and meet with Agumon as friends rather than partners. The 02 kids can open digital gates whenever they want, and I’m sure Koushiro can find Agumon and Gabumon easily.

Hell, Agumon himself could also be an ambassador for the DW and they very well could be “partners” in that sense lol.

What this movie does is give Taichi and Yamato a big final battle and moves them forward from where they were at the end of tri. (you know, wavering and not exactly knowing what they want to do).
 

Kon

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Honestly I’m not sure why people think we need a sequel now that I think about it. For all we know, Taichi might just make his way to the Digital World as an ambassador and meet with Agumon as friends rather than partners. The 02 kids can open digital gates whenever they want, and I’m sure Koushiro can find Agumon and Gabumon easily.

Hell, Agumon himself could also be an ambassador for the DW and they very well could be “partners” in that sense lol.

What this movie does is give Taichi and Yamato a big final battle and moves them forward from where they were at the end of tri. (you know, wavering and not exactly knowing what they want to do).
The thing wouldn't be so easy

All digidestined (not only 02 kids) can open digital gates whenever they want in Kizuna. However, it seems this will stop when the digidestined are separated from their Digimon. Also, they probably couldn't enter the Digital World anymore.

02 kids are not immune to this, they will also be separated from their Digimon partner later when they become older.


That is why Taichi is doing a thesis on reconnecting the worlds at the end of Kizuna. Taichi hopes to meet Agumon again.
 
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Deep Saver

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I feel the need to point out that in the 02 epilogue Ken is seen with both Stingmon and Wormmon, which implies that they are still partners in the traditional sense and therefore found some way around the whole aging out of being a Chosen. So it seems unlikely they are going the direction the cast is simply going to reunite with their Digimon but no longer be partners. Seeing as how most people seem to have forgotten this though, I wouldn’t be surprised if Bandai did too and wrote a gaping plothole with whatever they are planning next.
 

Nightwing

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I mean we’ve seen Digimon who can evolve entirely on their own power after being exposed to the Digivices for long enough. A lot of things in Adventure are just vague enough with enough gaps in the timeline that you can work out most continuity problems like this lol.

Personally, just for future potential crossovers, I’d like to believe Taichi can still help Agumon evolve even without them being “partners” in the traditional sense (that is, if that’s what they’re doing with the epilogue). As dumb as this might sound, I hope the “Last Evolution” isn’t a one and done thing lol.
 
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Deep Saver

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I mean we’ve seen Digimon who can evolve entirely on their own power after being exposed to the Digivices for long enough. A lot of things in Adventure are just vague enough with enough gaps in the timeline that you can work out most continuity problems like this lol.
I suppose that’s true, like Leomon being able to achieve a temporary evolution to SaberLeomon in Adventure. I almost feel like with the Adventure universe it becomes less appealing the more of these gaps they fill in with continuations though. It’s more fun to imagine and discuss possibilities than actually have them proven, haha.
 

Ricardolindo

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This movie is, really, strange. I don't know why they thought this was a good idea. First, the Mysterious Man is completely absent, despite what he said at the end of the last tri. movie. Second, they recicled Maki's story in Menoa. Third, Sora's behavior makes no sense. Fourth, the evolutions are bad. Fifth, the variations in Eosmon's power levels make no sense.
 
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e105zeta

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It sounds like they're confusedly ambling towards making Homeostasis itself the final antagonist if they ever get around to telling that story.

And Dark Gennai's been discarded as quickly as regular Gennai was in 02.
 
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