General Outlook about Appmon with regard to the entire Digimon Franchise

Shadow Shinji

I come from the net
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Mar 5, 2014
Messages
1,692
Location
Europe
I've been thinking about this since Digimon Universe: Appli Monsters first aired in Japan in October, and especially after reading this discussion topic in Reddit. For many years now, I've seen in several forums many "fans" spreading lots of bad reviews, asserting that Digimon Xros Wars is simply not Digimon, or at least it doesn't maintain its "true essence", because the way the Digimon evolve in this season is quite different from previous seasons and it introduces some changes never seen in the anime before, which is not bad at all, since that means that Digimon is able to continually reinventing itself. In my opinion, any material of the franchise is part of it, regardless that you may like some more than others, so I have never understood this kind of misplaced accusations.

On the other hand we have Appli Monsters, whose own creators claimed that "it's Digimon, without being Digimon", and although it is more than obvious to me that it's part of the whole package, for the first time I can reluctantly understand that some people argue that "it does look like a spin-off of Digimon". All this leads me to consider the effect that Digimon Universe has had with regard to the vision that many people has of the previous seasons; that is, if all these people who said, for example, that Xros Wars (or Savers and Frontier to a lesser extent) were not part of the franchise, nostalgifans mostly by the bye, are now able to understand that it was and IS Digimon (as Appmon is) or if they still believe that everything that does not look like Adventure or Tamers is not Digimon.

What is your opinion on this subject?
 
Last edited:

Unknown Neo

You got in
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Sep 10, 2006
Messages
11,402
Age
36
Location
Unknown
If we got through Frontier and Xros Wars, we can get through this. People just do this for everything. Didn't they say similar when we saw Pokemon Sun/Moon's anime art style?
 

Lord Archfiend Kliff

Completely digital
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Oct 10, 2014
Messages
718
Location
Portugal
Saying something isn't "truly" part of a franchise because you dislike it is just stupid.

I might not have liked Frontier or Xros Wars from what I watched of them, but it doesn't make it lesser part of the franchise. I can't say "don't like Renamon so it isn't part of the franchise".

And to me, even if Appmon is different, I can at least say that I enjoy it, even more than things that "are" part of the Digimon series.

Some people are just like that.
 

MarcFBR

Big Cheese
Staff
Admin
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
12,881
I'm leaving the thread open, but this is literally like the 3rd or 4th topic for this we have.
 

DontStopPataPata

I come from the net
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Jun 1, 2013
Messages
1,070
Saying something isn't "truly" part of a franchise because you dislike it is just stupid.

I might not have liked Frontier or Xros Wars from what I watched of them, but it doesn't make it lesser part of the franchise. I can't say "don't like Renamon so it isn't part of the franchise".

And to me, even if Appmon is different, I can at least say that I enjoy it, even more than things that "are" part of the Digimon series.

Some people are just like that.
That's really oversimplifying people's critique and observations


Frontier made a controversial decision to jettison the partner concept in lieu of humans becoming Digimon which alienated audiences (no more then Tamers telling you the previous two years didn't matter I imagine) but it was still unquestionably Digimon. It was basically a remake of Adventure (group of kids get summoned in a strange digital world with monsters and have to save it) with a twist. It has several returning Digimon and the art style is still clearly Digimon.


Savers went for a more shonen style look but it was still clearly Digimon. I loathe Savers but will never say it doesn't feel like Digimon

Xros Wars makes some odd choices with the franchise and looks a tad different but you still tell its a Digimon series


Applimonsters simply does not look like
Digimon or feel like it. They could have easily released it as its own series and nobody would think twice about it. If it grtd
license in North America the English dub can just call it App Monsters with no indication its a Digimon series and nobody but hardcore Digimon fans would realize its suppose to be a Digimon show and not monster show imported from Japan #307
 

TMS

Super Moderator
Staff
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Messages
11,614
Age
30
Location
Ohio
Eh, I still don't see what makes Appmon any different from normal Digimon. The plot uses the same basic setup, and many Appmon share design characteristics with Digimon.
 

MarcFBR

Big Cheese
Staff
Admin
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
12,881
That's really oversimplifying people's critique and observations


Frontier made a controversial decision to jettison the partner concept in lieu of humans becoming Digimon which alienated audiences (no more then Tamers telling you the previous two years didn't matter I imagine) but it was still unquestionably Digimon. It was basically a remake of Adventure (group of kids get summoned in a strange digital world with monsters and have to save it) with a twist. It has several returning Digimon and the art style is still clearly Digimon.


Savers went for a more shonen style look but it was still clearly Digimon. I loathe Savers but will never say it doesn't feel like Digimon

Xros Wars makes some odd choices with the franchise and looks a tad different but you still tell its a Digimon series


Applimonsters simply does not look like
Digimon or feel like it. They could have easily released it as its own series and nobody would think twice about it. If it grtd
license in North America the English dub can just call it App Monsters with no indication its a Digimon series and nobody but hardcore Digimon fans would realize its suppose to be a Digimon show and not monster show imported from Japan #307
Your entire post is oversimplification by and large.

A good chunk of the franchise could have been 'monster show imported from Japan #307' with the smallest tweaks. The vast majority of Digimon uses new things with a handful of recognizable designs and not much else, at least at a surface level.


If Savers didn't have a new version of Agumon from moment one, it wouldn't have had much recognizable from the franchise, and much of the franchise acts the same way.


Ignoring that of course, in Japan the Digimon name is in the title, even if it didn't have it here wouldn't make it less Digimon.

I mean, I fucking loathe Enterprise, but by and large, it's still pretty much Star Trek (to the point they hedged on the name after 2 years.)


We've had Agumon and Gabumon easter eggs.
We have Toei marketing it as new Digimon to potentially licensing partners.
A pretty decently well known Digimon, Hackmon, has an Appmon redesign (to say nothing of the fact that the general design style isn't really that different when you look at the franchise as a whole.)


By and large it's just Digimon with the creatures called something new.


With the huge swaths of different things the franchise has had no one has really been convincing that calling them 'Appmon' instead of 'Digimon' is the straw that broke the camels back.


I mean, one of the most beloved things in the franchise is V-Tamer, and it isn't anything like the rest of the franchise.
 

Shadow Shinji

I come from the net
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Mar 5, 2014
Messages
1,692
Location
Europe
I'm leaving the thread open, but this is literally like the 3rd or 4th topic for this we have.
I don't think this question has been answered before...The premise is quite simple, I wonder if after the release of Digimon Universe Appli Monsters, which is perhaps the most aesthetically distant season of Digimon, the way these people regard some previous seasons (esp. Digimon Xros Wars) has changed or not.
 

Unknown Neo

You got in
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Sep 10, 2006
Messages
11,402
Age
36
Location
Unknown
Eh, I still don't see what makes Appmon any different from normal Digimon. The plot uses the same basic setup, and many Appmon share design characteristics with Digimon.
Gomimon is really just a Garbagemon. But that's the most obvious answer.
 

Jay Ukyou

Resistance is Futile
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
2,067
Location
Nagoya, Japan
I suspect Gomimon's status as the 'most obviously just an imported Digimon' is why it got chosen for 7-code status.

But to more specifically answer the question, I think that -every- new season of Digimon has the effect of making the previous seasons more accepted by the remaining fanbase.

When Frontier came out, with its weird no-partner power ranger thing, everyone stopped saying that "Tamers wasn't Digimon because it didn't have the Adventure cast". When Savers came out years later with its goggle-less new art style, everyone stopped saying "Frontier wasn't Digimon". When Xros Wars came out some people were hyped at first because the art style returned, but a lot of people said it wasn't Digimon because everything looked like a combining mecha show and started championing Savers for having regular evolution and familiar Digimon plot elements.

Appmon honestly looks more like Tamers than just about every series since, and I think it fits in just fine, but I suspect that changing the name and making all evolution into jogress essentially, and the main character not having brown hair will just be TOO radically different for some people and they will start to pine for the days when Xros Wars and Savers 'did things right'.
 

amozu16

I'm a Maniac
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Oct 25, 2016
Messages
133
Location
Maryland
Applimonsters simply does not look like
Digimon or feel like it. They could have easily released it as its own series and nobody would think twice about it. If it grtd
license in North America the English dub can just call it App Monsters with no indication its a Digimon series and nobody but hardcore Digimon fans would realize its suppose to be a Digimon show and not monster show imported from Japan #307

Seeing as how people are still "thinking twice" about Digimon and Pokémon, imma have to refute this point. Also, it has distinct and crisp evolution lines that even adhere to a progression similar to the "Rookie-Champion-Perfect-Mega" (unlike Frontier, and Xros Wars), humans with just one partner (again, unlike the other two), a protagonist who looks his age (unlike Savers), a protagonist with goggles (unlike Savers again).


Every season of Digimon is unique in its own way, and quite frankly, Appmon is not that strong of a deviation, tbh
 

Shadow Shinji

I come from the net
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Mar 5, 2014
Messages
1,692
Location
Europe
Seeing as how people are still "thinking twice" about Digimon and Pokémon, imma have to refute this point. Also, it has distinct and crisp evolution lines that even adhere to a progression similar to the "Rookie-Champion-Perfect-Mega" (unlike Frontier, and Xros Wars), humans with just one partner (again, unlike the other two), a protagonist who looks his age (unlike Savers), a protagonist with goggles (unlike Savers again).
I have to slightly disagree with you. While Xros Wars and Young Hunters have their own evolution system (base Digimon -> Cho Shinka -> sometimes Mode Change a la Arresterdramon SM), Frontier have indeed the same evo system as the rest of the seasons:
Rookie: Agumon
Champion: Greymon
Perfect: MetalGreymon/SkullGreymon
Mega: WarGreymon
Mega2: Omegamon
Mega3: Omegamon X-Antibody

vs

Rookie: Flamemon
Champion: Agnimon
Perfect: Vritramon
Mega: Ardhamon/AncientGreymon
Mega2: KaiserGreymon
Mega3: Susanoomon

Do you really see any differences there? Don't let that the "Hybrid" word confuses you. This only means that they are the successors of the Warrior Ten and they can also be achieved by Spirit Evolution by both Humans or Digital Monsters.

On a another hand, while in Frontier the children "a priori doesn't have Digimon partner in the sense Adventure and Tamers had established", that's not entirely true. The thing is that after the defeat of Lucemon, all the Digimon can finally reborn and "separate" from their respective Spirits. That can also be seen after the defeat of Quartzmon in Hunters. The only main difference is that most of Frontier's Digimon protagonist are already in their Adult stage, the same as Tailmon in Adventure, Guardromon and Leomon in Tamers and now Meicoomon in tri.
 

Jay Ukyou

Resistance is Futile
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
2,067
Location
Nagoya, Japan
Pretty sure Omegamon X-Antibody is not part of Adventure canon. And I'm not certain it counts as a "Mega 3" in any continuity...

Still, even if Hybrid power levels somewhat mirror the standard progression, the series definitely tries to say that the Human and Beast Hybrids are supposed to be two halves to one whole. Somewhat more like equals with different talents than a linear upgrade, even if the media they appear in outside of Frontier tend to treat them more like Adult->Perfect equivalents.
 

Shadow Shinji

I come from the net
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Mar 5, 2014
Messages
1,692
Location
Europe
Pretty sure Omegamon X-Antibody is not part of Adventure canon. And I'm not certain it counts as a "Mega 3" in any continuity...
In Decode, Taichi's Omegamon can achieve this form. What I meant about this sort of classification is that the above form is stronger than the previous one. Omegamon X is definetely more powerful than the regular Omegamon, the same as Susanoomon is in respect with KaiserGreymon or MagnaGarurumon.

Still, even if Hybrid power levels somewhat mirror the standard progression, the series definitely tries to say that the Human and Beast Hybrids are supposed to be two halves to one whole. Somewhat more like equals with different talents than a linear upgrade, even if the media they appear in outside of Frontier tend to treat them more like Adult->Perfect equivalents.
That's not entirely true. Althought you're right about this, even in the series is highlighted several times that the Beast Digimon are stronger than the Human ones (sometimes they switch into their Beast Spirit because the opponent is quite powerful for a Human Spirit, I would need to check the series to put some examples). So yes, essencialy is the same concept. Even in the Manga of Xros Wars, Fairymon evolves into Shutumon when the Digimon recover their natural power to evolve, here's the best and more representative example.
 

amozu16

I'm a Maniac
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Oct 25, 2016
Messages
133
Location
Maryland
That's not entirely true. Althought you're right about this, even in the series is highlighted several times that the Beast Digimon are stronger than the Human ones (sometimes they switch into their Beast Spirit because the opponent is quite powerful for a Human Spirit, I would need to check the series to put some examples). So yes, essencialy is the same concept. Even in the Manga of Xros Wars, Fairymon evolves into Shutumon when the Digimon recover their natural power to evolve, here's the best and more representative example.

There was a vast power gap betwen the human and the beast spirits to the point that several (Takuya, Kouji, Tommy, JP, Duskmon, Ranamon) all struggled (some more than others) with controlling the beast spirit. Even in the case with extraordinarily powerful human spirits like Mercurymon and Duskmon, the beast spirits were still at a higher level. So I'll ceded that point.


On a another hand, while in Frontier the children "a priori doesn't have Digimon partner in the sense Adventure and Tamers had established", that's not entirely true. The thing is that after the defeat of Lucemon, all the Digimon can finally reborn and "separate" from their respective Spirits. That can also be seen after the defeat of Quartzmon in Hunters. The only main difference is that most of Frontier's Digimon protagonist are already in their Adult stage, the same as Tailmon in Adventure, Guardromon and Leomon in Tamers and now Meicoomon in tri.

Yet another anomaly, the "rookie" levels barely had any screentime in the entire season. Just episode 22 (?) for Flaremon. This is different from every other season where the majority of the protag digimon spend the majority of time in their rookie forms.


Also, "Mega 3" is definitely a new one on me. I'd argue it's not a real thing and that the natural next step after "Mega 2/Burst Mode" is Super Ultimate/Ultra, which is a real level, and one Susanoomon has been confirmed as being on. I'd also put Omnimon on that level and slot in VictoryGreymon as the Mega 2 digimon.
 

Jay Ukyou

Resistance is Futile
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
2,067
Location
Nagoya, Japan
I don't think bringing up a Japanese-only port of a Japanese-only game with only the most tenuous of ties to the Adventure canon really supports any point you're trying to make about the Frontier anime being anything like the Adventure anime in terms of how evolution works...

Also, the B/H Hybrids were supposed to be presented as "balanced" because while the B-hybrids were physically -stronger-, they were harder to control/less agile/whatever than the H-hybrids. There's no sort of parallelism at all between Adult and Perfect levels in previous seasons. (EDIT: Though obviously they just sort of became more like regular Adult->Perfect evolutions in the cards/games that followed because the franchise was forcing everything to fit into one system, so those media don't matter, the discussion is ONLY about how the anime presents things.) This just highlights how different Frontier really was and why a lot of people looked at it and said "This is not Digimon". Of course, then Savers and Xros Wars came along, and suddenly Frontier was universally accepted.

Pretty sure Appmon has already done the same for Xros Wars for most people, even though it's not even all that different.
 

Theigno

Supper Mοderator
Staff
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
2,568
Age
27
Location
ɯoɹɟ
I do think that the other threads about how appmon is "different" from previous different iterations of the franchise are already implicitly deal with what this thread is about but okay I guess... In general since in terms of mechanics appmon most closely resembles Xros Wars by relying on fusions and having quite a large amount of monsters per character so I'm not sure if it will change anything about how people see Xros Wars. If they feel that already wasn't Digimon then they will most likely just see appmon as an extension of exactly that. But I guess we'll see where the next episodes take the story. I mean technically you could also liken what we've seen of appmon so far to the first arc in Savers which also had this "some digimon screws with the human world" pattern early on, although since people generally dislike those early episodes that comparison is not necessarily a point in appmon's favor, but I still think it' still valid as a point for it not being too different.


What I meant about this sort of classification is that the above form is stronger than the previous one. Omegamon X is definetely more powerful than the regular Omegamon, the same as Susanoomon is in respect with KaiserGreymon or MagnaGarurumon.
I would say that is exaggerating things. In most cases the X-Antibody is said to draw out more combat potential but that is not always the case so it's not really sensible to pretend that it's an upgrade on the same magnitude as actually evolving. Omegamon X is still the same level the regular omegamon, otherwise you might as well say that Guilmon-X should be an adult level, or that any particular ultimate level digimon canÄt be stronger than another ultimate level Digimon, because that would mean that it should be on another level. In general arbitrarily splitting up levels is silly in any case.
 

WarOmnimon

Completely digital
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Sep 10, 2006
Messages
823
Age
34
Location
Southern New England
Saying something isn't "truly" part of a franchise because you dislike it is just stupid.

I might not have liked Frontier or Xros Wars from what I watched of them, but it doesn't make it lesser part of the franchise. I can't say "don't like Renamon so it isn't part of the franchise".

And to me, even if Appmon is different, I can at least say that I enjoy it, even more than things that "are" part of the Digimon series.

Some people are just like that.
*Golf clap* My thoughts exactly. Just because you hate something that is part of the franchise, it doesn't remove it from the franchise. I've always gone by the same mindset, even though at times it ends up frustrating the heck outta me when things go REALLY bad (Cases in point, Power Rangers Megaforce and Ai Tenchi Muyo, both of which bombed in the eyes of their respective fanbases).

But back to the subject at hand... personally, I like that they are doing something like this. The idea and execution of the anime is similar to the mainline Digimon series, but with a separate set of monsters (In this case the Appmon) that are in the same universe as Digimon. Keep in mind, we've had plenty of things like this before such as the D-Reaper, VRs, Erasers, Eaters, and so forth, but they were all antagonistic so they really couldn't make a series focused on those without also including Digimon. On top of this, the fact that they are aiming Appmon at a different audience than usual (Case in point, the anime referencing things that are popular with kids right now and the merchandise being different from what we're used to), it's clear that they're using it as a "gateway" to Digimon itself, which is a smart move going into the Digimon 20th anniversary next year.

Short version - Appmon stands out well on its own, and will help Digimon itself get new fans, which is definitely Bandai and Toei's strategy here.
 
Top