Digimon Profile #35- The Dark Area of the Digital World

sirtao

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There's only one instance of Cocytus and so only one place where data is turned into the flesh of the Demon Lords, which kind of contradicts having one Demon Lord per world idea which clearly would make more sense if... well the Demon Lords actually corresponded to the different "per world" Dark Areas.
I think there is only one DEADLY SIN Demon Lord for every Digital World.
Like, there can be multiple Beelzebumon around but only of them is connecte to the Sin of Gluttony

I supposed, with how uncommon Ultimates are SUPPOSED to be, that would be statistically unlikely though.

SkullSatamon is very clearly based off Angemon and Pidmon already, there's no need for another Angel analogue for him. Whereas Devimon is a very direct conceptual inversion of an angel, SkullSatamon represents a different kind of corruption and fall from grace, one based on degeneration and decomposition, that was always the reference, and squishing in another angelic design would be ruining that.
I disagree: we only have one male and one female Perfect-level Angels, while we have multiple Adult and Ultimates
a staff-wielding Perfect-level Archangel, basically an "ideal" evolution of Pidmon or D'Arcmon, would be the ideal angel-form of SkullSatamon
 

ThEOnE94

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Completely irrelevant to the question. Neither JESmon nor Alphamon are Ryoal Knights as far as Adventure is concerned. And that's not just my Interpretation, their cards in the tri memorial cards set explicitly omit the Royal Knights tag.
And of course throughout tri infected Digimon like Kuwagamon and Ogremon have no problems crossing over into the human world either.
Sorry to burst your bubble but some promotional material has confirmed that Hackmon and Gankoomon from Cyber Sleuth are the same ones that appear in the Adventure crossover and the question at hand was "when did we see them cross between worlds" so i was very much on topic. Those infected Digimon could cross over from the boundaries between worlds being weak. So that's a weak argument.


Uh, that's some shaky argumentation. Only because Kakudo made some tweets mentioning his idea of how those "Neoplatonic" concepts were his take on Adventure, that doesn't make it the ultimate truth about the lore in general, which started getting written before he got involved in the franchise, and continued without his involvement (as far as we know) long after Adventure. Even claiming that all this is canonical to Adventure is questionable, especially since many of those tweets were him just spitballing about the potential possibilities he would have explored after Zero Two... but he never did. And I don't think that all those themes were magically codified in Adventure and Zero Two as they exist now. What we have to ask ourselves is, even if that was his interpretation of the setting from the very start, were any of the many other writers and artists involved with Adventure in agreement or even aware that this was the point?
Especially considering that we know that Kakudo seems to have issues with the Hosoda movies and left the development of Kizuna because it wasn't compatible with his vision, I don't think the idea that his philosophical musings are the center of some digimon cosmology that all other writers adhere to is really feasible at all.

Word of god> your interpretation and oppinion. We know for a fact it applies to the Xros Wars manga whose director specifically said that he took inspiration from Kakudo's vision,we know for a fact it applies to Savers as we have multiple flashbacks in the xros wars manga and Bagramon even finds the husk of Yggdrasil that Shinegreymon blew up in Savers. And of course it applies to Adventure as Kakudo is the director/co-director.


That might be "true" for CS, but there's not really any proof that any continuity outside of it operates like that.

And we do need more proof in addition to what CS itself says because of the way continuity works in general.
We have some Statement A which is true in continuity A but false in continuity B and vice versa. That's an easy enough concept to grasp, but it only works cleanly as long as we are restricting ourselves to cases in which a continuity only contains information concerning itself.
Continuity A can assert "Statement A is correct across all continuities" and Continuity B can assert "Statement A is incorrect across all continuities".
Which is basically what happens every time we get a crossover.
Other universes in the same Multiverse have different rules "for the entire multiverse" that are paradoxically only valid in that particular Universe.

The WS games claim that every digital world in existence derives from ENIAC, tri can claim that every world in existence comes from the quantum ocean, while Xros Wars claims that the human world is a subset of the digital world which predates it, and Cyber Sleuth can do whatever else it wants with "Universes" but that does not make it all "absolutely" true at the same time.
Except your take is flawed. This doesn't apply to CS alone but to the series as a whole. CS is not some self contained timeline or non canon. We have Gankoomon and Hackmon that also appeared in Adventure,Rina who appeared in Decode and Next Order,Sayo who appeared in Dawn and Dusk,Mirei who appeared in Decode and Next Order is obvious as day that CS is connected to all series. To say CS isn't connected at all to the other series is a big fat fallacy.The WS games have been long retconed and hold no water anymore.Except that what TRI say and what Xros Wars says isn't in conflict. Both in TRI and in Xros Wars the Digital World has existed long before the human world. We see this as soon as episode I of TRI with the human world being created by Demiurge as an imperfect emanation and shadow of Idea the primordial Digital World having its roots in the neoplatonic myths.

..And since the Adventure Novelization is its own continuity, its interpretation of Apocalymon is necessarily applicable to any other Digimon continuity out there. Hell, the whole concept of the struggle between concepts of how the digital world should "be" is not something that is even relevant to the lore of basically anything else.
Wrong yet again. Kakudo all but confirmed that the novel is an in-depth telling of the anime as they didn't have time to fit it all in not another continuity. It's relevant enough to Adventure/02/Xros Wars manga and anime/Savers/Cyber Sleuth/Hackers Memory (i'm iffy on wheter or not Frontier can be added). Again all the directors of these products have used Kakudo's vision and Savers is literally shown to have taken place before the Xros Wars manga.


And not even other versions of Adventure stay true to this interpretation of Apocalymon as for example the Ryo games claim that Apocalymon was formed because of Milleniummon's power of evil with none of those metaphysical claims.
And again i say,WS games hold no water anymore. They were retconed and they never did anything with them after for a reason.
That is rather comically missing the point, because the separation into different time states is a basic feature of the NDW in general and has nothing to do with the Royal Knights themselves.
And Yggdrasil has helpfully connected all of them, and of course he allows his servants to go wherever he wishes.
Deriving a general ability from this is like me claiming that I have the ability to walk through walls because I can open doors someone else built into the walls.
Except by the way the NDW is made where the layers are the literal past,present and future if you want to cross between them you have to move faster than linear time. They are not connected at all. If what you say were true than average digimon would have been able to move between the layers too but that's something only the RKs can. All in all your arguments are weak and full of fallacies and "my oppinion holds more water than the literal makers of the series".
 

Bancho

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meanwhile, at Digimon headquarters

Intern: how does that latest Digimon Profile about Cocytus relate to the anime, manga, and video games?

Mr.Digimon: haha, I don't know XD
 

Yamato-san

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When it comes to one Cocytus I think they mean per timeline/universe. E.g. it would connect the regular, Illiad, Witchelny and others but it doesn't connect Aventure to Tamers, or Cyber Sleuth to Fusion etc each universe has its own Cocytus. So rather than infinite Blephemon's hangout together there's only one Belphemon per timeline and they just chill in the Cocytus inbetween each Digital World. So if you try to go from the regular one to Illiad youll end up running into the SGDL, Gulfmon, and GranDracmon unless you're really good at avoiding them.

So there's technically infinite Coytus, one each for each infinite universe/timeline/whatever you wanna call it.
The whole thing about applying "infinite" to something is that the minute you start doing it you have to start wondering about greater infinites. Like, so, every Digital World is linked across infinite realities, sure, except we know that some of them aren't actually connected like that. But those worlds that aren't connected are connected to their own infinite variations, so maybe they are connected to the other worlds, just only through greater infinites? And then what about things that aren't connected to those, are those really actually connected by greater greater infinites? And that's even before getting into the canonical crossovers with other V-Pets and Medarot and, I dunno, Angela Anaconda or whatever else - how do those fit into the cosmology?

It's a lot like the fact that Tamers' Digital World is directly connected, according to the drawings we've seen of its structure, to another world. What other world is that? Totally irrelevant, so they don't ever go into it. Because in general, when you say big sweeping statements involving infinite realities and such, like, sure, there could be infinite variations on that world... but we're not ever going to see an infinite number of those so who gives a fuck about them. A world being connected to another world is only relevant when that world being connected to that other world is relevant.
You know, I think Kamen Rider Zi-Oh did something similar to your infinite variations talk. If I recall correctly, it was outright stated somewhere that they weren't actually crossing over with other Kamen Rider worlds so much as they were crossing over with the Zi-Oh continuity's take on those worlds. So if that logic applies to Digimon, you could say, for example, that Tagiru didn't actually meet the Takato and Guilmon from Tamers, but rather the Takato and Guilmon from a world within Xros Wars's self-contained multi-verse where the setting and events could be assumed to be roughly (though not exactly) similar to what was seen in Tamers.
 

TMS

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Guys, it’s stupid to pretend that Kakudo is the god of the franchise. He was involved in a few things, and some people took inspiration from his interpretation of the source material, but there’s a ton of stuff he wasn’t involved in, including things that were merely loosely based on his ideas. He quit Last Evolution, but that doesn’t make it non-canon. He’s just one of hundreds of people who have been involved in shaping the franchise.

@Darklabo:
Hackmon’s voice and personality differ completely between Adventure PSP and Tri. Beyond being the same species, there’s nothing to connect them. No mention of the Royal Knights in anything related to Tri, no Gankoomon, and as others have stated, it’s alleged to be the character from Cyber Sleuth’s continuity.
 

Mattman324

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I wonder if the name "Cocytus" was coincidental, or if it was chosen deliberately to somehow connect it to MetalGarurumon.
It's called Cocytus because Cocytus is the 9th circle of hell in Dante's Inferno, and Metalgarurumon has an ice breath attack called Cocytus because the ninth circle is very very cold, because in the center of it, in Judecca, the fourth and final part of the ninth circle, Satan awaits and is cooling the circle with his massive wingbeats.

Correalation, not causation.
 

ThEOnE94

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When it comes to one Cocytus I think they mean per timeline/universe. E.g. it would connect the regular, Illiad, Witchelny and others but it doesn't connect Aventure to Tamers, or Cyber Sleuth to Fusion etc each universe has its own Cocytus. So rather than infinite Blephemon's hangout together there's only one Belphemon per timeline and they just chill in the Cocytus inbetween each Digital World. So if you try to go from the regular one to Illiad youll end up running into the SGDL, Gulfmon, and GranDracmon unless you're really good at avoiding them.

So there's technically infinite Coytus, one each for each infinite universe/timeline/whatever you wanna call it.
The whole thing about applying "infinite" to something is that the minute you start doing it you have to start wondering about greater infinites. Like, so, every Digital World is linked across infinite realities, sure, except we know that some of them aren't actually connected like that. But those worlds that aren't connected are connected to their own infinite variations, so maybe they are connected to the other worlds, just only through greater infinites? And then what about things that aren't connected to those, are those really actually connected by greater greater infinites? And that's even before getting into the canonical crossovers with other V-Pets and Medarot and, I dunno, Angela Anaconda or whatever else - how do those fit into the cosmology?

It's a lot like the fact that Tamers' Digital World is directly connected, according to the drawings we've seen of its structure, to another world. What other world is that? Totally irrelevant, so they don't ever go into it. Because in general, when you say big sweeping statements involving infinite realities and such, like, sure, there could be infinite variations on that world... but we're not ever going to see an infinite number of those so who gives a fuck about them. A world being connected to another world is only relevant when that world being connected to that other world is relevant.
You know, I think Kamen Rider Zi-Oh did something similar to your infinite variations talk. If I recall correctly, it was outright stated somewhere that they weren't actually crossing over with other Kamen Rider worlds so much as they were crossing over with the Zi-Oh continuity's take on those worlds. So if that logic applies to Digimon, you could say, for example, that Tagiru didn't actually meet the Takato and Guilmon from Tamers, but rather the Takato and Guilmon from a world within Xros Wars's self-contained multi-verse where the setting and events could be assumed to be roughly (though not exactly) similar to what was seen in Tamers.
The protagonists from seasons 1-5 that showed up in the Xros Wars crossover are the very same ones that are the protagonists of their respective seasons not from a "world within Xros Wars's self-contained multi-verse where the setting and events could be assumed to be roughly (though not exactly) similar to what was seen in Tamers."
The clock shop man who is actually Bagramon took them from their respective universes(makes sense since he has Yggdrasil's abillities.)
 

Bancho

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I don't see how it isn't the "world within Xros Wars's self-contained multi-verse where the setting and events could be assumed to be roughly (though not exactly) similar to what was seen in Tamers" when Taichi in 02, Tri, and Kizuna never reference the fact he was pulled into Xros Wars
 

Muur

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I don't see how it isn't the "world within Xros Wars's self-contained multi-verse where the setting and events could be assumed to be roughly (though not exactly) similar to what was seen in Tamers" when Taichi in 02, Tri, and Kizuna never reference the fact he was pulled into Xros Wars
It'd be a random thing to bring up tbf. The question that'd be asked is how ten year old Tai and Matt have Omnimon, that alone makes it incompatible with the first season characters.
 

Bancho

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It'd be a random thing to bring up tbf.
Taichi just never mentions to Davis after he gets his Veemon that Tai has met Veemon before, seen Magnamon before, and that they fought alongside 4 random digidestined?
 

Mattman324

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Taichi just never mentions to Davis after he gets his Veemon that Tai has met Veemon before, seen Magnamon before, and that they fought alongside 4 random digidestined?
Twice, if you count Adventure PSP.

But then Daisuke never talks about that time he met Alternative Taichi during the Kaiser arc.
 

Ragnalord

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I'm only just now realizing that if the Demon Lords have reason to surface in Digital World (Yggdrasil), there's no reason they wouldn't also be popping up in Iliad. Previously I thought of angels and demons as not existing in Iliad in the same way they do the Digital World since Homeros tries to maintain neutrality to better observe free will.
I guess Beelzemon meeting Vulcanusmon on friendly terms isn't just a one off event; the Demon Lords probably walk around peacefully in Homeros

Why did this make me laugh so much? I know because you thinking of Vulcanusmon drb but still.
 

ThEOnE94

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I don't see how it isn't the "world within Xros Wars's self-contained multi-verse where the setting and events could be assumed to be roughly (though not exactly) similar to what was seen in Tamers" when Taichi in 02, Tri, and Kizuna never reference the fact he was pulled into Xros Wars
It'd be a random thing to bring up tbf. The question that'd be asked is how ten year old Tai and Matt have Omnimon, that alone makes it incompatible with the first season characters.
It's not.They are the same ones we know from the anime. Bagramon went back in time and took them from their respective universes to help with Quartzmon. What you said is pure headcanon.
 

Bancho

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What you said is pure headcanon.
but how is what you're saying less headcanon? I feel like Muur, Mattman, and I gave more examples for our side than you did
 

Chimera-gui

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What you said is pure headcanon.
but how is what you're saying less headcanon? I feel like Muur, Mattman, and I gave more examples for our side than you did
I’m pretty sure the cameo characters are meant to be the originals from their respective series, not clones created for for XW univers.

The manga had Gatomon and Wizardmon cameo and they were explicitly from Adventure’s universe.

And we know some Digimon are capable of traveling between dimensions such as DarkKnightmon using his Super-dimensional Axe/Multi-dimension Axe to break down the walls between them and the whole premise of Bagramon’s D5 plan.

Hell, Millenniummon’s whole schtick being fucking up time and space.

Also Our War Game is explicitly set only one year after the defeat of Apocalymon meaning Tai and Matt would both be 11 at oldest, not really incompatible if we’re assuming Lord Bagra grabbed them from the OVA rather than Adventure itself.

In fact the alternate tamer skins of Tai and Matt for Omegamon in Rumble Arena look near identical to their alternate costumes for Agumon/WarGreymon and Gabumon/MetalGarurumon separately apart from Matt’s outfit.
 
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Bancho

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with the Adventure anime sequels not being compatible with this universal yoinking I can only think of 4 possible explanations

1.) These characters were pulled from the same exact anime universe but the universe they came from is 100% unaffected because it was a copy and paste over, not a physical transfer. What happens in XW universe onwards only exists in the XW universe; so "cloning"

2.) These characters are pulled from an identical or near identical universe to the anime where thing that happen in the XW universe do go back with them

3.) Adventure, 02, Tri and Kizuna are separate universes from each other, which seems very unlikely?

4.) Amnesia (most boring, copout answer)

so where is the evidence of 1 being less headcanon?
 

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There's only one instance of Cocytus and so only one place where data is turned into the flesh of the Demon Lords, which kind of contradicts having one Demon Lord per world idea which clearly would make more sense if... well the Demon Lords actually corresponded to the different "per world" Dark Areas.
I think there is only one DEADLY SIN Demon Lord for every Digital World.
Like, there can be multiple Beelzebumon around but only of them is connecte to the Sin of Gluttony

I supposed, with how uncommon Ultimates are SUPPOSED to be, that would be statistically unlikely though.
Oh, I don't doubt that there can be non-member species for the SGDL, if those are not connected to the general dark area mechanics (like some Digimon just evolving into one), then that's another topic anyway.
The original point that I was theorizing about was how having a singular Cocytus could be connected to the infinite Demon Lords shenanigans in CS, but the moment we assume that Cocytus itself is not unique across those universes but infinitely "distributed" as well, then that too becomes a moot point.


I'm only just now realizing that if the Demon Lords have reason to surface in Digital World (Yggdrasil), there's no reason they wouldn't also be popping up in Iliad. Previously I thought of angels and demons as not existing in Iliad in the same way they do the Digital World since Homeros tries to maintain neutrality to better observe free will.
I guess Beelzemon meeting Vulcanusmon on friendly terms isn't just a one off event; the Demon Lords probably walk around peacefully in Homeros
Homeros might not care much about good and evil himself but Jupitermon on the other hand seems to be just as fanatic about sin and justice as the most hardcore Royal Knights.
Since Jupitermon has abilities which judge good and bad automatically and the presence of lots of sin (pretty much what the SGDL represent) sends him into Wrath Mode, I don't think they would have a much better time in Illiad, they might even emerge from the ocean, or wherever that particular Dark Area interfaces with the rest of the world, and immediately get skewered by a bunch of lightning bolts.


Word of god> your interpretation and oppinion.
Kakudo is not god and never was. Digimon is the product of hundreds of people besides him and his view isn't absolute. You are also completely blowing things out of proportion if you think that the mere mention of taking inspiration is equal to complete adherence to some framework of mysticism that he never even completely expressed in the projects he was involved in.

I would also like to point out the irony in complaining about "interpretation and opinion" when the very question of how much the opinion of a writer even matters is one of interpretation and opinion.
The nineteenth century has ended a long while ago and intentionalism is by far no longer the only way to approach the interpretation of art.


we know for a fact it applies to Savers as we have multiple flashbacks in the xros wars manga and Bagramon even finds the husk of Yggdrasil that Shinegreymon blew up in Savers
Wait, you are trying to claim that Adventure lore applies to Savers because of the Xros Wars Manga even though you don't even have proof that the Xros Wars Manga is canon to Savers?
The bizarre amalgamation of different settings in the Xros Wars Manga is pretty much incompatible with anything besides itself.
Especially if you do include crossovers because anything besides the Xros Wars Manga does portray different worlds as actual different worlds and not one world overwriting its own timeline repeatedly.


the question at hand was "when did we see them cross between worlds" so i was very much on topic. Those infected Digimon could cross over from the boundaries between worlds being weak. So that's a weak argument.
I'm not sure if you genuinely didn't understand the point I was making or if you are trying to be deceptive in your answer.
So for extra clarity: The original question was why we should believe that the Royal Knights could just waltz into Iliad. You presented an example of RK species crossing between worlds in a context where clearly non-Royal Knights were able to cross between worlds because of weakened boundaries, etc. In that case that's not much of an achievement on their part, is it?

Also, the whole point of about the first half of Cyber Sleuth was a plot by the Royal Knights to actually materialize in the human world. They were unable to simply "transcend" dimensions, they had to use the same pre-existing connections between the worlds through which all the other Digimon ended up in Eden and had to utilize awkward workarounds like de-evolving themselves and taking over human hosts in order to actually get anywhere. Simply "slicing space" and marching through clearly wasn't an option for them. Instead, in order to actually open a gate, they had to come up with their whole roundabout plan of amplifying the Digital Wave, messing around with Eaters until eventually everything was shifted enough for them to get through, but at that point other random Digimon could also materialize so once again there was no special treatment for the Royal Knights here.

Meanwhile, another few Universes over, if they could cross between worlds at will, the Royal Knights in Frontier would not have needed to work for Lucemon in hopes of reaching the human world.


Except your take is flawed. This doesn't apply to CS alone but to the series as a whole. CS is not some self contained timeline or non canon. We have Gankoomon and Hackmon that also appeared in Adventure,Rina who appeared in Decode and Next Order,Sayo who appeared in Dawn and Dusk,Mirei who appeared in Decode and Next Order is obvious as day that CS is connected to all series. To say CS isn't connected at all to the other series is a big fat fallacy.
And the take of CS itself cannot be flawed in any context? (Also you should recheck what the term fallacy means.)
Anyway, at no point did I deny that characters from other continuities show up in the game. In fact this was part of the overall argument.
I was specifically talking about instances of continuities making statements about other continuities, e.g. in the form of crossovers and such.

Generally speaking my position is this: A continuity can present facts that contradict the facts presented in other continuities (I'd argue this is what makes something its own continuity). This extends to facts that a continuity actively attributes to other continuities.

You seem to operate under the naive assumption that simply a story makes statements about the rules wider multiverse at one point, other entries in the franchise have to abide by those rules, which I admit would be the case in an ideal world (I am sure that others would argue that it wouldn't be ideal), but we don't... and I have my doubts that any such stipulation exists for any of the writers involved, especially given the rather radical ways in which Digimon narratives like to reinvent just about anything else about themselves.
So I don't see any reason to assume that sort of consistency as a given. Some continuities might form a coherent system between each other, others might not.
And just the possibility that they might not puts the burden of proof on anyone who claims that the concepts outlined in some other part of the franchise actually apply to some particular other setting as well.
Most grand theories about "Digimon Cosmology" floating around are just assertions without proof, based on associations between vaguely similar concepts in different settings and strained attempts to reconcile already barely coherent technobabble.
Nothing wrong with that in itself, but it gets idiotic when it is presented as substantially more than that.


Wrong yet again. Kakudo all but confirmed that the novel is an in-depth telling of the anime as they didn't have time to fit it all in not another continuity.
Oh, I am sure that he personally prefers the version he had the most control over. (btw, the concept that him "all but doing something" is somehow proof of anything shows how desperately this interpretation clings to straws).
It's just bizarre to assume that when Toei/Bandai are basing something off the most successful anime entry of the franchise, they are in actuality only counting a loose retelling of it that is comparatively obscure by any measure.
Kakudo's name being attached to something does not make it count "more". For example, tri may have integrated an idea from the novelization into its plot such as the first Digimon Partners becoming the Holy Beasts, but at the same time it had no trouble ignoring the Original Story Drama CDs which were also directed by him. They just took what they needed.
Just like for example Demon's profile referencing his role in V-Tamer doesn't mean the exact plot of V-Tamer happened in the profile lore.


The WS games have been long retconed and hold no water anymore.
Do you have any proof for that besides them contradicting your preferred interpretation?


Except that what TRI say and what Xros Wars says isn't in conflict. Both in TRI and in Xros Wars the Digital World has existed long before the human world.
That's incorrect according to tri itself.
When explaining how the quantum sea gives rise to the different worlds, the Homeostasis has this to say:
The digital devices of the human world and the network borne from them developed... and as if intertwining with that, the Digital World arose from the quantum sea.
This very clearly states that human technology and the digital network were the cause that the quantum sea reacted to. The digital world emerged as a response, or at the very least in parallel to this development and not before.
Perhaps the basic dimensional space with a "core grammar" capable of materializing data existed as part of the quantum sea from the beginning, I am not going to dispute that.

As far as the quantum sea having anything to do with what Xros Wars and Cyber Sleuth are talking about, I'll believe that when other media actually start using the terms "quantum sea" and "core grammar" as well as acknowledge any of the specific mechanics tri associates with the concept like the tampering with worlds causing the quantum sea to directly manifest into those worlds... otherwise it's simply not the same thing, just different takes on a generic science fantasy trope which in itself signifies no specific connection since the concept of multiple worlds is inherent in the franchise and each canon has to make that work somehow.


We see this as soon as episode I of TRI with the human world being created by Demiurge as an imperfect emanation and shadow of Idea the primordial Digital World having its roots in the neoplatonic myths.
You see this because you are reading what you want to believe into it. That's fine, all fiction is (unavoidably) interpreted in the context of our own preconceptions. And even Kakudo's comments regarding the narration are merely his impressions as part of the audience after seeing the first five minutes of tri, as he *drum roll* was not involved in creating it.
I'll address the issues of applicability later, but first you are forgetting that the actual language and symbolism is so vague and that this is by far not the only interpretation that can be applied here, so even if an interpretation is applicable it's not the same as being definite.

It is not clear at all which world is being created, from whose perspective the text is narrated, or what the different terms represent.
The Demiurge might also refer to Yggdrasil who could have constructed the Digital World from data without originally being aware that said data was in fact originating from the human world, before becoming aware of this and throwing his anti-human tantrum that was his involvement in tri.
Yet even at this point, he is still unaware of the soul that is the power of human emotion, their connection with their partners and their potential for shared evolution, which he consistently denied, but which of course eventually stopped his plans.
That it should refer to some completely unrelated creator god figure of the human world seems off in the context of tri as a narrative, because no such god ever appears or is even implied to be around, in contrast to the gods of the digital world "deities" which, you know, are actually relevant.

Generally I think you are overfocusing on Neoplatonism as some catch-all "explanation" when it really doesn't explain much at all.
One could, for example, search through the Enneads of Plotinus in vain trying to find any sort of justification for more than one world containing any sort of material existence.
The sole connection is the materialization of the abstract... except as far as any sort of Platonism is concerned, no proper hierarchy is respected.

The next issue is that the concept of a flawed an ignorant Demiurge is not in line with Neoplatonism, it's a portrayal that is far more predominant in Gnosticism. Neoplatonism tends to conflate the figure of the Platonic Demiurge with the Intellect (nous) and in some ways this denies him agency as a creator.
Importantly, one of the main breaks with Gnosticism, many of which are helpfully pointed out by Plotinus himself in the ninth tractate of the second Ennead, is that this interpretation leaves no room for flaws or ignorance:
The Divine Mind in its mentation thinks itself; the object of the thought is nothing external: Thinker and Thought are one; therefore in its thinking and knowing it possesses itself, observes itself and sees itself not as something unconscious but as knowing: in this Primal Knowing it must include, as one and the same Act, the knowledge of the knowing.
Similarly, the attitude of this opening narration (and especially your reading of it) seems to be fairly cynical about the inadequate nature of the created world, but this would be another divergence from Neoplatonic thought which held a far more idealistic view:
The Universe is a life organized, effective, complex, all-comprehensive, displaying an unfathomable wisdom. How, then, can anyone deny that it is a clear image, beautifully formed, of the Intellectual Divinities? No doubt it is copy, not original; but that is its very nature; it cannot be at once symbol and reality. But to say that it is an inadequate copy is false; nothing has been left out which a beautiful representation within the physical order could include.
Plotinus also proceeds to assert the world is by necessity the best it can be, and its creator being inherently an instrument of goodness.
The narrative of tri basically abandons any semblance of any Platonic moral framework once it asserts that opposition against those divine beings (at least if Yggdrasil and Homeostasis are believed to be cast as such) is a viable and morally defensible stance to take.
So it's clearly debatable how much actual Neoplatonic philosophy is applicable to Adventure, let alone other parts of the franchise.

Yet another flaw in your interpretation is that, as pointed out before, during tri only the quantum sea is said to be primordial, the digital world is not.
Other sources confirm this as well. Since you claim that the Adventure Novelization is somehow the definite version of the lore, let's see what it has to say about the age of the Digital World... unsurprisingly it makes its position quite clear while explaining the mechanics of time dilation:
In terms of real-world time, the Digital world had only been born recently.
Seems like Xros Wars was never in line with Kakudo's vision after all.
Shortly after that:
Because of it, the Digital world as a world before now lacked stability. This was the reason why other worlds invaded it so easily, as well as why it influenced the real world.
Now that's quite a departure from the Digital World being supposedly some ancient and superior universe, when in fact it is the one that is new, vulnerable and unstable and its influence on the real world was due to its instability rather than any flaws of the human world.


Except by the way the NDW is made where the layers are the literal past,present and future if you want to cross between them you have to move faster than linear time. They are not connected at all.
I don't believe that this interpretation is consistent with how the setting is portrayed.

In X-Evolution Dukemon mentions that there are "resistance bases" against Project Arc in Ulud and Skuld in addition to the Versandi one we see in the film.
Now... if Ulud is literally the past then it doesn't make sense for a resistance group to from there in response to something that from their perspective hasn't happened yet.
Similarly, if Skuld Terminal was literally the future, how is anyone still there if all Digimon are getting massacred in the present, and why bother having a resistance, or even executing Project Arc there at all when everything happening is just determined by the other two terminals by basic causality? Or taken another way, shouldn't the fact that there are any Digimon left in Skuld at all tell the Royal Knights that the second stage of Project Ark can't possibly happen successfully?

If the Terminals represent literal time and Yggdrasil's domain outside them was truly outside the actual concept of time as far as the terminals are concerned, why would the Royal Knights there even care when Project Arc is happening or even in what order?

The literal interpretation does not make sense. The Terminals are representations of a possible past and a possible future based on Yggdrasil's calculations, but they very literally exist simultaneously in the present, which is why the Royal Knights have to bother with executing Project arc in all of them (not to mention why doing so does not lead to temporal paradoxes).


If what you say were true than average digimon would have been able to move between the layers too but that's something only the RKs can.
I don't know what you are talking about. In no way does my assertion that Yggdrasil manages the connection between the Terminals imply that any average Digimon would be able to freely travel between them.
It's Yggdrasil who has power over the New Digital World. And of course he would grant his closest servants access to its different Terminals but not the general population.
And this is clearly not some complete transcendence and absolute control over dimensions, which is why Dukemon had to die to reach Yggdrasil (or wherever he went before his rebirth) and Alphamon and Omegamon were redirected to their confrontation with Death-X-Doruguramon before reaching him as well.

So let's refine my previous metaphor: It would be like claiming that I have the ability to walk through walls only because I have a key to a door in the wall to which other people don't have keys.

But since you are pressing the issue, let's look into the possibility of other non-Royal Knight Digimon having crossed Terminals.

One scene in X-Evolution that comes to mind is Omegamon hunting down a whole herd of Dinosaur Digimon before first meeting DORUmon.
DORUmon lives in Versandi Terminal but what is interesting is that dinosaur Digimon are meant to reside in Ulud, Triceramon X in particular was shown in one promotional image to be an inhabitant. Combine this with this scene not happening long after the Royal Knights discuss taking on the resistance bases in all three Terminals and I suspect that we are looking at dinosaur Digimon belonging to the resistance in Ulud, having escaped to Versandi.
I don't think that's hard to believe, the whole premise of chronicle and X-Evolution is Digimon ending up in places where they (according to Yggdrasil) should not be.
Even though obviously the Old Digital World is separated from the new Digital World and its Terminals, the rebellious Digimon keep making it across. We don't know exactly how but the Royal Knights are certainly not helping them, and they also did not all originate in the NDW (Garudamon X directly mentions them "running to this new world").
Maybe it should not be assumed that Yggdrasil's designs are absolute when so many narratives in Digimon illustrate that Yggdrasil is not as amazing and infallible as he thinks he is.

To summarize, the NDW consists of simultaneous simulations rather than a strictly singular continuum; this makes passing between Terminals a different process than literal time travel, so it's doubtful if we can apply anything about it to other contexts or even other universes, especially since the original question concerned a server where Yggdrasil is not in charge.


And the card doesn’t prove nor disprove anything, especially when there is a Tai’s Omegamon and a Takato’s Dukemon cards, both having the Royal Knight mention.
I haven't found any Hyper Colloseum cards referring directly to the Tamers Dukemon or Adventure Omegamon as Royal Knights.
In the case of the promotional boosters, Bandai certainly did not omit the label from the cards of some of the most prominent RK species by sheer accident. And I don't see what the intention behind that omission could mean other than designating that those specific characters are not meant to be members.


- It’s the same Digimon.
- The only one of it’s species appearing in the Adventure Continuity.
Are you really trying to justify the conclusion of "there is only one Hackmon" using the argument "there is only one Hackmon"?
That's not how reasoning works.
 

Bancho

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Homeros might not care much about good and evil himself but Jupitermon on the other hand seems to be just as fanatic about sin and justice as the most hardcore Royal Knights.
Since Jupitermon has abilities which judge good and bad automatically and the presence of lots of sin (pretty much what the SGDL represent) sends him into Wrath Mode, I don't think they would have a much better time in Illiad, they might even emerge from the ocean, or wherever that particular Dark Area interfaces with the rest of the world, and immediately get skewered by a bunch of lightning bolts.
while it's up in the air how many of the XII think like Jupitermon and how many think like Vulcanusmon, I would imagine the Demon Lords still have a way more friendly time on that surface world than Yggdrasil's as it's possibly only Jupitermon and Junomon they need to look out for. And Homeros might step in to discipline Jupitermon.
If they mess with the natural orders, though, Homeros and the gods of the affected domains will probably be out for deletions
 

Darklabo

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They meet Hackmon and Gankoomon in the Digital Dimension, which is separate from the World of Adventure and is a World of its own that connects to all the animes. Supposedly something in promotional material confirmed that Hackmon and Gankoomon are from Cyber Sleuth universe and were training in said dungeon before the events of CS.
And once again, it’s another evidence that the Royal Knights can travel between different universes. So, saying: « The RKs doesn’t exist in Adventure Universe » is factually wrong.
I don’t even see where is the debate, here.
As for Gankoomon training Hackmon, that doesn't really prove anything as that's their official lore you'd may as well say all Hackmons are from Adventure at that point
It’s the official Lore of the Hackmon who become Jesmon of the RKs.
Or are you suggesting that every Omegamon, Magnamon and Dukemon of the entire license are Royal Knights ? And that Gankoomon trained every Hackmon in existence ?
Guys, it’s stupid to pretend that Kakudo is the god of the franchise. He was involved in a few things, and some people took inspiration from his interpretation of the source material, but there’s a ton of stuff he wasn’t involved in, including things that were merely loosely based on his ideas. He quit Last Evolution, but that doesn’t make it non-canon. He’s just one of hundreds of people who have been involved in shaping the franchise.

@Darklabo:
Hackmon’s voice and personality differ completely between Adventure PSP and Tri. Beyond being the same species, there’s nothing to connect them. No mention of the Royal Knights in anything related to Tri, no Gankoomon, and as others have stated, it’s alleged to be the character from Cyber Sleuth’s continuity.
It’s literally the same Digimon who works for Homeostasis, something that has been established to be specific to the Royal Knights in the Xros Wars Manga.
He doesn’t show a lot of personality in Tri, so saying that he’s different than in Adventure PSP is nothing more than a biased point of view.
And once again, Cyber-Sleuth itself established that the RKs could travel between Universes with Veevee coming from the Digimon World Universe to replace the UlForceVeedramon from the Digimon Story Universe, so Hackmon coming from Cyber-Sleuth doesn’t contradict the fact that he’s a Royal Knight in Adventure Tri.
And the card doesn’t prove nor disprove anything, especially when there is a Tai’s Omegamon and a Takato’s Dukemon cards, both having the Royal Knight mention.
I haven't found any Hyper Colloseum cards referring directly to the Tamers Dukemon or Adventure Omegamon as Royal Knights.
Never said it was a Hyper Colosseum Card.
D5-CP5:
« Yagami Taichi's strongest partner. The people's hopes and wishes for the world to be saved turned to power and gave rise to this Digimon. »

It has the Royal Knight’s tag.
In the case of the promotional boosters, Bandai certainly did not omit the label from the cards of some of the most prominent RK species by sheer accident. And I don't see what the intention behind that omission could mean other than designating that those specific characters are not meant to be members.
It doesn’t need to be an accident, a label (or in this case, the lack of a label) on a card, an object without any plot or context, is just irrelevant to the events and characters of the anime.
In the same way, Imperialdramon PM, Alphamon Ouryuken and Omegamon X having the highest DP of any card in the Digimon Card Game doesn’t mean they’re the 3 strongest Digimon.
- It’s the same Digimon.
- The only one of it’s species appearing in the Adventure Continuity.
Are you really trying to justify the conclusion of "there is only one Hackmon" using the argument "there is only one Hackmon"?
That's not how reasoning works.
I don’t have anything to « justify », though.
You’re the one assuming there is more than one Hackmon who appeared in the Adventure Continuity, without any evidence to back up your theory.
The same goes for Alphamon, btw. It was never implied, anywhere in the franchise, that a non-RK Alphamon worked for Yggdrasill (for the obvious reason that would be completely stupid and pointless).
 
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