Digimon Profile #15- The Three Great Angels and the Kernel

shynely

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Lilith isn't the Demon symbolising the Deadly Sin of Lust, either. That honour goes to Asmodeus.

I mentioned on the same page that the Crowns acknowledge this and have Asmodeus instead of Lilith.

Sure, the point of Digimon not being strict still stands, but I object to the assertion that the Crowns make things "confusing overall" like Tetsuya Suoh claims.
 

Tetsuya Suoh

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Lilith isn't the Demon symbolising the Deadly Sin of Lust, either. That honour goes to Asmodeus.

I mentioned on the same page that the Crowns acknowledge this and have Asmodeus instead of Lilith.

Sure, the point of Digimon not being strict still stands, but I object to the assertion that the Crowns make things "confusing overall" like Tetsuya Suoh claims.
Well, as you've stated yourself, half of the Demon Lords aren't even named after the demons their sin represents, yet those are the names in the Crowns. Then there's the whole "Olympian Sprit" thing, which some may confuse with the Olympos XII.
The reason the crowns are confusing is because they have lot of information, but some of that is just flavor text unrelated to the actual group.
 

Theigno

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Well, as you've stated yourself, half of the Demon Lords aren't even named after the demons their sin represents, yet those are the names in the Crowns.
And what is so strange about the concept of a Digimon being based on more than one source?
I mean... the crowns pretty much clarify issue of Lilithmon's relation to Ophanimon you pointed out earlier. Lilithmon is not just based on Lilith but on Asmodeus. And Asmodeus has been in some sources been identified as a fallen angel of the rank of Thrones (Ophanim).
So you are essentially complaining about the solution to your original problem.

Then there's the whole "Olympian Sprit" thing, which some may confuse with the Olympos XII.
If fans are misinformed and can't take 5 minutes to google a term that's not the fault of the franchise. Especially when the crowns themselves don't even include the word "Olympian".

The reason the crowns are confusing is because they have lot of information, but some of that is just flavor text unrelated to the actual group.
I don't think that argument really works as long as the franchise is still active. For years the existence of the group itself and their association with sins wasn't really much more than a side note when one of its members appeared; until eventually more media, especially games, started to elaborate on those themes and provide various interpretations of their roles.
The same can still happen with the other occult references associated with them, that way they could be used in more varied ways than just recycling Inferno.
 
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e105zeta

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Personally, I'd like each of the SDG to be a fallen form of one of the Holy DIgimon from Adventure: (as well as that being made an official group in the broader lore) but Leviamon, Valdurmon, and Razielmon kind of throw a wrench into that idea.
Leviathan generally isn’t a fallen angel in most Abraham’s lore. It’s more of a primordial water spirit that has ties to the inferno. I’d like it to just be something unique among the demon lords. Or maybe some relation to a Behemon, who could be angelic or just a big cow elephant thing.
 

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I'd just like to point out that Mammon the Digimon has nothing to do with Mammon the demon. The resemblance of the names is a coincidence.
 

GoggleBoy97

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I have read a theory post that would argue that either Beelzemon or Deathmon could potentially meant to be Cherubimon's final Demon Lord form. Demon (1998), Beelzemon (2001), Lilithmon (2002) were the first of the Seven Great Demon Lords to debut in the franchise, so it could make sense that assumption was made with the three that were available by the time Digimon Frontier aired. Also, worth mentioning that based on mythology, a Beelzebub is a fallen Cherub, as someone has pointed out before in this post. Even more, Deathmon despite not being part of the group, which at that time wasn't still a think, was also a Demon Lord type of Digimon that debuted quite early in the franchise, and honestly it fits the aesthetics of Cherubimon quite well.
 

Archwizard_Drake

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If people are discussing what Demonic form best fits Cherubimon...
Perhaps the best thing to do is to examine the relationships the other Great Angels have with their Demon counterparts?

Seraphimon is opposed/slide evolves to Daemon. Seraphimon is the peak of the Angemon line; the Angemon line is directly opposed to the Devimon line, but can also slide evolve into it much like Seraphimon into Daemon; Daemon is one of the potential peaks of the Devimon line. Closed loop.

Ophanimon is opposed/slide evolves to Lilithmon. Ophanimon is the peak of the Gatomon/Angewomon line; Gatomon/Angewomon are directly opposed to BlackGatomon/LadyDevimon and can slide evolve into them; Lilithmon is the most likely evolution of LadyDevimon. Another closed loop.

Cherubimon is opposed to... who knows. But we know he's the peak of Lopmon's line, from Turuiemon to Andiramon. And we also know that Lopmon has a dark evolution, Wendigomon.
If the pattern holds, Cherubimon's demonic form would be an evolution of Wendigomon's, explaining his ability to slide evolve into it.
But, we've never seen Wendigomon "canonically" evolve into a form that strays from the path into Cherubimon (even if a darker side of him).

That being said, stab in the dark? Wendigomon has the same haunches and forearms as Mephistomon.
And Mephistomon evolves into... Gulfmon.
Wendigomon is a Beast Man. Frontier made it a minor point that Cherubimon was the Great Angel who represented Beast Digimon, so it wouldn't be unfitting for his counterpart to be a Demon Beast.

But who knows, maybe it's some evolution they haven't published yet. Could even see it in the Dynasty of Evil DIM.
 

Muur

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If people are discussing what Demonic form best fits Cherubimon...
Perhaps the best thing to do is to examine the relationships the other Great Angels have with their Demon counterparts?

Seraphimon is opposed/slide evolves to Daemon. Seraphimon is the peak of the Angemon line; the Angemon line is directly opposed to the Devimon line, but can also slide evolve into it much like Seraphimon into Daemon; Daemon is one of the potential peaks of the Devimon line. Closed loop.

Ophanimon is opposed/slide evolves to Lilithmon. Ophanimon is the peak of the Gatomon/Angewomon line; Gatomon/Angewomon are directly opposed to BlackGatomon/LadyDevimon and can slide evolve into them; Lilithmon is the most likely evolution of LadyDevimon. Another closed loop.

Cherubimon is opposed to... who knows. But we know he's the peak of Lopmon's line, from Turuiemon to Andiramon. And we also know that Lopmon has a dark evolution, Wendigomon.
If the pattern holds, Cherubimon's demonic form would be an evolution of Wendigomon's, explaining his ability to slide evolve into it.
But, we've never seen Wendigomon "canonically" evolve into a form that strays from the path into Cherubimon (even if a darker side of him).

That being said, stab in the dark? Wendigomon has the same haunches and forearms as Mephistomon.
And Mephistomon evolves into... Gulfmon.
Wendigomon is a Beast Man. Frontier made it a minor point that Cherubimon was the Great Angel who represented Beast Digimon, so it wouldn't be unfitting for his counterpart to be a Demon Beast.

But who knows, maybe it's some evolution they haven't published yet. Could even see it in the Dynasty of Evil DIM.

I don't think that works, since they say Demon Lord not Demon Beast. Demon Lord being a type, so Gulfmon is disqualified.
 

Yamato-san

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If people are discussing what Demonic form best fits Cherubimon...
Perhaps the best thing to do is to examine the relationships the other Great Angels have with their Demon counterparts?

Seraphimon is opposed/slide evolves to Daemon. Seraphimon is the peak of the Angemon line; the Angemon line is directly opposed to the Devimon line, but can also slide evolve into it much like Seraphimon into Daemon; Daemon is one of the potential peaks of the Devimon line. Closed loop.

Ophanimon is opposed/slide evolves to Lilithmon. Ophanimon is the peak of the Gatomon/Angewomon line; Gatomon/Angewomon are directly opposed to BlackGatomon/LadyDevimon and can slide evolve into them; Lilithmon is the most likely evolution of LadyDevimon. Another closed loop.

Cherubimon is opposed to... who knows. But we know he's the peak of Lopmon's line, from Turuiemon to Andiramon. And we also know that Lopmon has a dark evolution, Wendigomon.
If the pattern holds, Cherubimon's demonic form would be an evolution of Wendigomon's, explaining his ability to slide evolve into it.
But, we've never seen Wendigomon "canonically" evolve into a form that strays from the path into Cherubimon (even if a darker side of him).

That being said, stab in the dark? Wendigomon has the same haunches and forearms as Mephistomon.
And Mephistomon evolves into... Gulfmon.
Wendigomon is a Beast Man. Frontier made it a minor point that Cherubimon was the Great Angel who represented Beast Digimon, so it wouldn't be unfitting for his counterpart to be a Demon Beast.

But who knows, maybe it's some evolution they haven't published yet. Could even see it in the Dynasty of Evil DIM.
But when was it heavily suggested that Demon is meant to be Devimon's Ultimate? Keep in mind, Demon was introduced in V-Tamer as just this stand-alone Ultimate, and at the time, the closest thing Devimon had to a definitive Perfect was Vamdemon (NeoDevimon wouldn't be introduced until later on within V-Tamer itself, and even then, it was initially suggested to not be a natural evolution). Come to think of it, aside from Seraphimon, Demon still doesn't have a particularly well-defined evolution chain to this day.
 

Tarama

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While we're still here, I want to predict the angel form of Deathmon. Its name is... Lifemon.
 

Tetsuya Suoh

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If people are discussing what Demonic form best fits Cherubimon...
Perhaps the best thing to do is to examine the relationships the other Great Angels have with their Demon counterparts?

Seraphimon is opposed/slide evolves to Daemon. Seraphimon is the peak of the Angemon line; the Angemon line is directly opposed to the Devimon line, but can also slide evolve into it much like Seraphimon into Daemon; Daemon is one of the potential peaks of the Devimon line. Closed loop.

Ophanimon is opposed/slide evolves to Lilithmon. Ophanimon is the peak of the Gatomon/Angewomon line; Gatomon/Angewomon are directly opposed to BlackGatomon/LadyDevimon and can slide evolve into them; Lilithmon is the most likely evolution of LadyDevimon. Another closed loop.

Cherubimon is opposed to... who knows. But we know he's the peak of Lopmon's line, from Turuiemon to Andiramon. And we also know that Lopmon has a dark evolution, Wendigomon.
If the pattern holds, Cherubimon's demonic form would be an evolution of Wendigomon's, explaining his ability to slide evolve into it.
But, we've never seen Wendigomon "canonically" evolve into a form that strays from the path into Cherubimon (even if a darker side of him).

That being said, stab in the dark? Wendigomon has the same haunches and forearms as Mephistomon.
And Mephistomon evolves into... Gulfmon.
Wendigomon is a Beast Man. Frontier made it a minor point that Cherubimon was the Great Angel who represented Beast Digimon, so it wouldn't be unfitting for his counterpart to be a Demon Beast.

But who knows, maybe it's some evolution they haven't published yet. Could even see it in the Dynasty of Evil DIM.
But when was it heavily suggested that Demon is meant to be Devimon's Ultimate? Keep in mind, Demon was introduced in V-Tamer as just this stand-alone Ultimate, and at the time, the closest thing Devimon had to a definitive Perfect was Vamdemon (NeoDevimon wouldn't be introduced until later on within V-Tamer itself, and even then, it was initially suggested to not be a natural evolution). Come to think of it, aside from Seraphimon, Demon still doesn't have a particularly well-defined evolution chain to this day.
I'd argue that SkullStatamon was a perfectly acceptable Perfect for Devimon - and bridge between it and Demon - before NeoDevimon came along.
I'd also like to think that, in Adventure: at least, Devimon, literally being the darkness Seraphimon was harboring given form, would have evolved into SkullSatamon rather than Neodevimon if it it was not being controlled by the Millennium Shard, (as Neodevimon's profile explicitly mentions it being a Devimon that was enhanced by someone, even before Adventure: came out, and then to Demon rather than DanDevimon if it had evolved normally rather than via Death Evolution.
 
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Yamato-san

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So as I've mentioned in a couple other threads, I low-key want ringless Tailmon to make a comeback. And for the longest time, I've been thinking that a good justification to utilize it in games and such is to give it exclusive access to Armor evolutions (with the ringless variant itself being a "Mode Change" akin to MagnaGarurumon's detached alteration). But with the concept of fallen angels becoming demon lords, I got to thinking: what if ringless Tailmon could act as a go-between for Tailmon and BlackTailmon (or possibly even Mikemon)? It actually makes a bit of sense when you consider that BlackTailmon also lacks a Holy Ring, yet manages to seem like ringed Tailmon's equal (plus, if ringless Tailmon is officially counted as a Child, much like it was in the D-3, it'd effectively work as an evolution). Granted, it would be a lot of jumping through hoops just to Slide Evolve some Adults (you might be better off just evolving another Child into BlackTailmon normally), but still, Tailmon's ringless variant being a "fallen" form seems like it could be a workable concept.
 

Mynor

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@Yamato-san for normal ringless Tailmon, it's kind of just a child level that should realistically have no issue becoming BlackTailmon or Mikemon from digivolving and the adult leveled ringed Tailmon has no reason it shouldn't be able to slide evolve into both of them if it ditched its holy identity for a demonic identity (falling) or a "Mike" identity (eating too many Mike & Ikes while wearing Jordans). I don't like the idea of Ringless Tailmon being an adult though, especially since it's the only child level housecat we have and Tailmon using it to perform superhuman feats for its size is the whole point of holy ring's significance in its design, although having a ringless child level Tailmon in your media and making armors exclusive to them I'm okay with as it's an anime reference and most armor evolving digimon are children so it can be good for balance reasons (I think 02 itself seemed to do that for partner level balancing?). It could also be funny if child Tailmon is only exclusively obtainable by de-digivolving a Tailmon.
I actually was planning to write something similar to your slide evolving idea in a potential webcomic based around Digimon tournaments if I ever stop being lazy and try making webcomics; a Tailmon that slides between the black and white versions for combat advantage (it's based on the Story universe so attributes and elements matter) but this is explained by their Tamer directly altering its code
 

Yamato-san

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I guess part of the reason I want ringless Tailmon to come back is because the idea of Tailmon pathetically (relatively speaking) hitting things with the power of a Child seems cute in an odd way (that, and the artwork to use in the Reference Book is right there, having previously been used on the D-3 site and several other media). Also, I can't help thinking that it's totally something that could've been done in Cyber Sleuth given the way "Mode Change" was handled in that game (with the aforementioned MagnaGarurumon, and Belphemon also showed us that Mode Changing can outright change a Digimon's evolutionary level, albeit "Super Ultimates" are technically still Ultimates).
or a "Mike" identity (eating too many Mike & Ikes while wearing Jordans).
Just so you're aware, Mikemon is pronounced more like "mee-keh", not "maik".
 

Sparrow Hawk

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SkullSatamon... I wonder why they never design "Satamon".

SkullSatamon - Demon line was largely popular among the fans but not to me... The more they make SkullSatamon focuses on heavy metal posing, the less he became menacing...

They tend to extend on Angel digimons one by one but at really extremely slow pace.
 

Tetsuya Suoh

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SkullSatamon... I wonder why they never design "Satamon".

SkullSatamon - Demon line was largely popular among the fans but not to me... The more they make SkullSatamon focuses on heavy metal posing, the less he became menacing...

They tend to extend on Angel digimons one by one but at really extremely slow pace.
Ikr? Like Demon should have totally been Satamon.
 

Tetsuya Suoh

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Ikr? Like Demon should have totally been Satamon.
Nope, SkullSatamon should be higher or same level as "Satamon", not the other way around.
Usually I'd agree but since we're dealing with demonic Digimon I'd say the reverse would fit. I think of it as Digimon dies>is deleted to the Dark Area>becomes SkullSatamon>absorbs dark energy>becomes Satamon
 
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