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- Jun 4, 2013
Dito.Could anyone list what hints there were of Sora and Yamato being a couple, particularly in the original Adventure? I've never noticed anything of the kind. They didn't really interact much.
Yeah, the Taiora dialogue was really exaggerated in the dub. ("Sora's still waiting for Tai to call" in the third movie, for example.) But, honestly, I think it's "Our War Game" (Japanese) that really threw off the whole Sorato thing, because it introduced Taiora/made a triangle. Hosoda's style is much more "loud" and the Taiora implications in "Our War Game" were really obvious. But Kakudou's series is about friendship, and he didn't dwell on romance overtly. The Sorato in 01 is very, very subtle - the two are shown in some moments to have an emotional understanding with each other, especially in Sora's Crest of Love and during the Dark Masters arc. That was the foreshadowing. But as the series is about friendship, you had a lot of blatant friendship between all the Chosen - with a large focus going to Taichi, and his best friend, Sora. So a lot of people liked pairing them up because their friendship seemed much more obvious (but the key word is friendship). And then, of course, "Our War Game" happened, and all the Taiora shippers could then claim all the Taiora friendship in 01 were intentional romantic hints (when Kakudou didn't intend them to be). But I understand why Taiora is much more obvious to most people, because Kakudou only hinted at Sorato a little in 01, then Hosoda implied Taiora way more obviously in "Our War Game".Thank you for posting this, very interesting indeed. I figured this was the case to some extent, the Saban dub added a lot more Taiora dialogue than what ever existed in the original for certain, both the first movie (Sora saying "Come on Tai", while watching the battle with Greymon and Parrotmon as he blew Hikari's whistle that was not in the original and Our War Game especially with his message about throwing up in her hat). So it's official, Sorato was always intended, Taiora never really existed.
Twitter didn't exist back when Digimon Adventure/02 was relevant? The fandom for Adventure/02 isn't exactly that lively.That's interesting. I wonder why hardcore Japanese fans didn't already bombard him with such questions a long time ago.
Unless, of course, it DID happen and it was just us English speaking audiences not getting wind of his responses?
Also, you can't help but feel that he doesn't really care about the questions from the translations. It just may be me though.
From what I can see, if it WAS intended that Sora and Matt was to end up together, it still would go out the same way as it did happen with the relationship developing completely off screen.
Which would mean that honestly, it's still a very eye-rolling scenario. Off-screen development is just bad.
That wasn't the only hint - but of course it wasn't romantic, they're 10/11. It just showed you that the two were very, very similar and that Yamato could "reach" Sora. And Kakudou's foreshadowing did get through to some people. *Raises hand and looks at the entire Sorato fandom.*Honestly, that's interesting and surprising since aside from Yamato breaking Sora out of her sadness in episode 51 (which isn't necessarily romantic either since Gabumon did the same) I don't remember any other hints even ignoring the more "Taiora" pushing dub. It feels left field really since for whatever reason the idea of the pairing didn't get through whether by hints or conversations between the two and without that development it's still hard to see that pairing.
I agree.I really don't think Digimon had a lot to do with relationships to begin with, the fact that the children were just that in Adventure, very young children between the ages of 10-12. It wasn't relevant for the storyline or their development, it was about learning lessons of teamwork while surviving in a hostile environment while trying to find their way home ... With 02 Zero-Two, the children being older, it was natural that perhaps a little emphasis on their personal lives and relationships would be apparent but not to a real in depth extent. That is the reason for the lack of any real instances between Yamato and Sora, there simply wasn't many examples to speak of, especially when they were ten for crying out loud.
Did you read my post? Kakudou had nothing to do with movie 2 aka "Our War Game". I addressed "Our War Game" as something either Hosoda or Seki (most likely) introduced. Yes, Yoshida (who rarely wrote for the actual series) wrote "Our War Game", but she would be working under Hosoda and Seki. Either of whom, as I said, wanted Taiora introduced in "Our War Game" (because Kakudou certainly didn't).But something one should mention here: Even if Kakudou did not intend it... It does not mean, that the writers did not intend it either. I am quite sure, that Yoshida did intend Taiora. I mean, she did the script for movie 2.Could anyone list what hints there were of Sora and Yamato being a couple, particularly in the original Adventure? I've never noticed anything of the kind. They didn't really interact much.
It was certainly not Seki, as she was the one pushing the Zero Two writers to keep Sorato in the story, which was something not everybody felt confortable with, as some of the Zero Two writers liked Taiora more.Did you read my post? Kakudou had nothing to do with movie 2 aka "Our War Game". I addressed "Our War Game" as something either Hosoda or Seki (most likely) introduced. Yes, Yoshida (who rarely wrote for the actual series) wrote "Our War Game", but she would be working under Hosoda and Seki. Either of whom, as I said, wanted Taiora introduced in "Our War Game" (because Kakudou certainly didn't).
That's simply not true. Kakudou had a lot of influence on the plot of Adventure, as he was one of the first people working on it. He was working on Digimon Adventure before Nishizono got onto the project. But so were Yoshida and Hosoda (they were the ones who came up with Taichi as a character!). But in general the storyteam consists of the episode writers and the series composer. Many times they will talk with the series director, but the director does not write the story, nor does he always get to influence the story (which he indeed did in Adventure). Nishizono, by the way, did not care about pairings at all. I asked him some time ago, because some german fans bugged me to asked him, and he was like: "I simply don't care. Those characters are primary school students for heaven's sake!"And writers write for the director. It's the director (and producer) who has the final say in everything that is produced aka episodes and movies.
I can literally feel the shipping seething through your post.Twitter didn't exist back when Digimon Adventure/02 was relevant? The fandom for Adventure/02 isn't exactly that lively.
And just because Kakudou didn't care about the questions (it's a series from 1999 . . .) doesn't mean he lied. Because he didn't - even his answer regarding the epilogue "matched" what Nishizono said in the 2007 DVD. I asked the questions, and he got really, really tired about my questions about Taiora. He didn't want it introduced at all; that much was obvious. (I got the impression that he's not a fan of cliches aka the "love triangle" - he just wanted it straight Sorato.)
. . . And it was intended that Sora and Yamato end up together. Kakudou confirmed that. And only a shipper would deny that. =P
Digimon isn't an anime about romance. It's an anime about friendship. Yamato, Sora and Taichi were 10/11 in 01 . . . how do you expect kids at that age to fall in love with each other? That's why Kakudou didn't have blatant hints, just subtle foreshadowing.
I think I can say something about that: To my experience japanese fans for one don't really care as much as western fans, whether their favorite pairing is canon or not. Like I said: To my experience. Might be, that there are hardcore japanese shippers out there (okay, I am sure there are), but it does not seem to be as common as over here. Also there is the simple fact: Going there and blandly ask a writer or a director about shippings would not be very respectful and japanese in general are respectful. I mean, you have to think about how this translates to the writer: "Hey there, I know you have written this series and put a lot of effort into it. But the only thing I really do care about is, whether character A and character B have the hots for each other, even though I know both characters are not even in middle school yet." That's why I never ask blandly about pairings in interviews. Rather ask about how one would see the relationships of Character A to all the other main characters. Once I had asked Nishizono about it, as two German fans always would go on and on about it. And in fact he did not care that much about it. He might have had preferances, but in general he thought of the characters as kids. So, yeah. But really, some japanese writers are not really used to that... Western style of going over a series. And they can really get pissed, because it is just not respectful, to make such a series all about shippings.I'm sure a hardcore Japanese fan would have gotten around to ask him about it on twitter, but apparently not.
I always have to think on what a friend, who is a hardcore NGE fan, told me there. In the NGE fandom, there is some sort of debatte going on, to my knowledge, about the question, who shot Ryoji Kaji (or however that character is named). As by now there are three or four different official answeres to that question given by different people from GAINAX staff. So, yeah...Peoples memories change. Do you know how many stories people tell about shows from 2, 5, 10, 20 years ago, where we know the stories are wrong? People disagree on things as basic as 'whose idea was it for Bob Newhart to wake up next to Suzanne Pleshette at the end of Newhart'.
Well, to be quite honest. I never got the impression that it so much is a question for the japanese fandom.I was just under the impression that the Japanese shippers would have wanted some kind of answers themselves.
I never said I wasn't a shipper, nor did I imply "Our War Game" wasn't canon. It obviously is. My entire tumblr post was about Kakudou's original intentions (which I found interesting, thus why I shared). I even put at the bottom of my post that "Our War Game" does exist - I wasn't rewriting canon. I just found the behind-the-scenes and Kakudou's intentions to be interesting. And, yes, I liked that my personal opinions on Sorato/Taiora were in line with what Kakudou's intentions were. But does that mean I think other people can't interpret things differently than I did? No. That wasn't what the post was about. I was just sharing Kakudou's intentions.Speaking of people being too insistent, you are yourself a shipper. Even in literary criticism people talk about the fallacy of authorial intent. It only gets murkier when it comes to something where there are many people working to complete a project. Is Children's War Game non-canon, simply because Kakudou didn't work on it? I've had similar discussions about how people put too much emphasis on Konaka's notes for Tamers. The anime series themselves are group efforts and should be taken on their own merits, not reduced to a single person's vision. Beyond their similarities in personality, there were no solid hints at Sora x Yamato in the original series, any more than there are for any pair of characters that didn't wind up married.
As I've asked you on LJ, show me the source? You never do. You claimed Konaka and Seki got into a dispute over Konaka's 02 episode when Seki listed it as one of her most memorable 02 episodes. Source. I really doubt your credibility.That's simply not true. Kakudou had a lot of influence on the plot of Adventure, as he was one of the first people working on it. He was working on Digimon Adventure before Nishizono got onto the project. But so were Yoshida and Hosoda (they were the ones who came up with Taichi as a character!). But in general the storyteam consists of the episode writers and the series composer. Many times they will talk with the series director, but the director does not write the story, nor does he always get to influence the story (which he indeed did in Adventure). Nishizono, by the way, did not care about pairings at all. I asked him some time ago, because some german fans bugged me to asked him, and he was like: "I simply don't care. Those characters are primary school students for heaven's sake!"
Sorry, I thought you were implying Kakudou lied. Which was the only thing I took issue with in your post - that you would just refute what he said as lies. Sure, he doesn't care much about it, but it's still the truth.Also, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he lied, just that it's probably an issue which he probably doesn't care too much for (which I am of the opinion, as well).
I'm a girl, by the way. And if you know Japanese, by all means, go ask Kakudou your own questions.This dude got an interview with a co-creator of Digimon.... ......and he asks about the fucking fan-pairings? What a waste.
I mean, don't get me wrong, that's very interesting and enlightening and all.... ....But think about how many much more interesting or fulfilling questions you could ask one of the guys who directed the show!! Dx Does anyone see that as a hugely missed opportunity or just me? Bah.
Digimon is animated, though. I understand your point, but I think it's a little different for a series director of an anime to "forget" what he originally planned from the beginning of a series. He would still be directing the actual animation and approving the scripts for the voice actors.Even if their memories are lined up and everything is true, there is an actual flaw that we know for a fact- They certainly never told the actors involved, which means their performances were never played that way.
If you have an idea for a character based ending that has to grow and evolve, you can't do it if the actors don't know they are leading to anything.
That's not what I mean, when I say "hints" I mean something more concrete and not situations where it could be taken one way or the other. Granted, as kids they probably wouldn't show that much interest but even so the two characters don't interact that much and when they do it's not really romantic. That's not a good way to establish that maybe these two characters will have a relationship.That wasn't the only hint - but of course it wasn't romantic, they're 10/11. It just showed you that the two were very, very similar and that Yamato could "reach" Sora. And Kakudou's foreshadowing did get through to some people. *Raises hand and looks at the entire Sorato fandom.*
I personally think Sorato makes much more sense than Taiora (because their personalities are much more similar and therefore they're more compatible, in my opinion), but I don't think those who think the opposite have invalid opinions, either.
Except at that point it was already established, why would the writer write something contradictory to what's already canon even if they feel otherwise?As for Yoshida, she only wrote three episodes in 01, six episodes in 02, as well as all four Digimon Adventure/02 movies. Yes, Yoshida wrote "Diablomon Strikes Back" . . . where Sora and Yamato are officially an item.