Digimon Adventure: Last Evolution Kizuna Discussion Thread

JR9386

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I'm not a fan of the whole "maturing causes one to lose their Digimon" plot, but one aspect confuses me: why is it the three Digidestined who have jobs are the only ones we don't see lose their Digimon until the credits? You'd think they'd go first 'cause of that; Joe especially. Is it intentional?
I would have wanted to see Joe and Mimi's fairwells. Izzy's would have been awkward IMO.

Speaking of which, Kari is mature for her age, wouldn't that possibly trigger a break in her relationship with Gatomon?

TK's would have been heartbreaking.

Ken's farewell would have been even more heartbreaking, IMO.

You know, it's a shame that we didn't get to spend more time with Ken as a character. Not that I think they'll reboot 02, but Ken is one of the few from the 02 cast with actual depth and complexity that I would have liked to have seen developed more ala Tri. I'd be fine with an extended Adventure series that picks up during the events of Tri leading up to Kizuna.

Speaking of which, wouldn't Menoa have been a genius on par with Ken, what exacerbated the break in her bond with Morphomon that didn't with Ken and Wormmon? I mean, sure, Ken was possessed/corrupted, but he flat out told Wormmon on multiple occasions that he didn't need him. Sure, that was the darkness speaking, but Menoa was in just as much of a fragile state when she lost Morphomon. Seems off that she would only come to be on their radar recently if she'd been working on that project for as long as she had.

I think maybe they should have invested in shorts for each of the characters, for personal send-offs in a tasteful manner. Joe staying up all night to save Gomamon would have probably been the opportune moment for that, but I think Joe would have been traumatized if it had happened that way...
 

Eitaroutarouman

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Morphomon vanished because Menoa forced herself to grow up by going to college early. As far as I'm aware, Ken didn't. Nothing to do with intelligence. Also, didn't Ken stop being a genius once he went good?
 

Ricardolindo

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Morphomon vanished because Menoa forced herself to grow up by going to college early. As far as I'm aware, Ken didn't. Nothing to do with intelligence. Also, didn't Ken stop being a genius once he went good?
Yes. Ken's grades decreased once the went good, as they were the result of the Dark Spore.
 

JR9386

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Morphomon vanished because Menoa forced herself to grow up by going to college early. As far as I'm aware, Ken didn't. Nothing to do with intelligence. Also, didn't Ken stop being a genius once he went good?
Yes. Ken's grades decreased once the went good, as they were the result of the Dark Spore.

I suspect it was a dubbing error when Izzy cited Ken as possessing a great intellect akin to his?

Morphomon vanished because Menoa forced herself to grow up by going to college early. As far as I'm aware, Ken didn't. Nothing to do with intelligence. Also, didn't Ken stop being a genius once he went good?
Is that the definitive reason cited for that partnership to have been dissolved, or because she had achieved her potential and no longer needed her (Whether conscious or a subconscious decision is another matter.)?

I'm asking in earnest, as I've only seen the dub, but growing up too fast seems a REALLY bad message for why their partnership would have been dissolved. What exactly is potential?
 

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I suspect it was a dubbing error when Izzy cited Ken as possessing a great intellect akin to his?

If it was something from their conversation in episode 33, then yeah, it was dub-only.

Is that the definitive reason cited for that partnership to have been dissolved, or because she had achieved her potential and no longer needed her (Whether conscious or a subconscious decision is another matter.)?

I'm asking in earnest, as I've only seen the dub, but growing up too fast seems a REALLY bad message for why their partnership would have been dissolved. What exactly is potential?

I still need to get access again to Last Evolution again (I saw it somehow; must have rented it), but the only explanation given, whatever it was, was Menoa's, which is suspect at best. Someone could check the subtitles and hope they're accurate, I guess. Or read the translated novelization.
 

JR9386

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If it was something from their conversation in episode 33, then yeah, it was dub-only.
Sigh*

At some point, I think subtitles would work better. Sometimes the dubs seem like their own show.


I still need to get access again to Last Evolution again (I saw it somehow; must have rented it), but the only explanation given, whatever it was, was Menoa's, which is suspect at best. Someone could check the subtitles and hope they're accurate, I guess. Or read the translated novelization.

I'd be interested in following up on this.

Something seems incomplete about that explanation. Someone with a mind like Menoa should have almost limitless potential. Seems a shame that her partner would be snatched away from her and drive her off the deep end. Izzy, Kari, and Joe should have all lost their partners at that rate. I'm intrigued by the circumstances that would have lead to Kari parting ways with Gatomon, though I suppose she'd have a few more years with her, and perhaps by then they would have managed to circumvent it. Potential, as cited by Menoa seems a very shabby rationalization.

I honestly think that the answer to that is likewise how they manage to get their partners back. I think it's akin to what we see in "Hook", when Peter manages both manages his ability to go back to Neverland and settles down to have children of his own, and how he manages to recover that when he's forced to venture back into Neverland.
 

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At some point, I think subtitles would work better. Sometimes the dubs seem like their own show.

I would highly recommend watching the original version. It's the reason I'm still a fan today. The dub differed greatly in terms of characterization, dialogue, tone, and occasionally plot.
 

Ricardolindo

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I'm not a fan of the whole "maturing causes one to lose their Digimon" plot, but one aspect confuses me: why is it the three Digidestined who have jobs are the only ones we don't see lose their Digimon until the credits? You'd think they'd go first 'cause of that; Joe especially. Is it intentional?
I would have wanted to see Joe and Mimi's fairwells. Izzy's would have been awkward IMO.

Speaking of which, Kari is mature for her age, wouldn't that possibly trigger a break in her relationship with Gatomon?

TK's would have been heartbreaking.

Ken's farewell would have been even more heartbreaking, IMO.

Does anyone here have any thoughts on this and, more generally, what each Digidestined's farewell would have looked like?
 
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McGann

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I'm not a fan of the whole "maturing causes one to lose their Digimon" plot, but one aspect confuses me: why is it the three Digidestined who have jobs are the only ones we don't see lose their Digimon until the credits? You'd think they'd go first 'cause of that; Joe especially. Is it intentional?
I would have wanted to see Joe and Mimi's fairwells. Izzy's would have been awkward IMO.

Speaking of which, Kari is mature for her age, wouldn't that possibly trigger a break in her relationship with Gatomon?

TK's would have been heartbreaking.

Ken's farewell would have been even more heartbreaking, IMO.

Does anyone here have any thoughts on this--
I dunno. I reckon it sucks regardless. Plus the OG kids went through a similar thing in Confession.

I guess they could call back to the imagery of him holding Wormmon as he leaves to give it an extra gut punch, but you also have to take into account the level of acceptance the individual Digidestined would have on the matter.

Sora stayed with Biyomon to the end, and seemed relatively well-composed both before and afterwards.
 
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Ricardolindo

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I'm not a fan of the whole "maturing causes one to lose their Digimon" plot, but one aspect confuses me: why is it the three Digidestined who have jobs are the only ones we don't see lose their Digimon until the credits? You'd think they'd go first 'cause of that; Joe especially. Is it intentional?
I would have wanted to see Joe and Mimi's fairwells. Izzy's would have been awkward IMO.

Speaking of which, Kari is mature for her age, wouldn't that possibly trigger a break in her relationship with Gatomon?

TK's would have been heartbreaking.

Ken's farewell would have been even more heartbreaking, IMO.

Does anyone agree that Ken's farewell would have even more heartbreaking considering what he and Wormmon went through?
I dunno. I reckon it sucks regardless. Plus the OG kids went through a similar thing in Confession.

I guess they could call back to the imagery of him holding Wormmon as he leaves to give it an extra gut punch, but you also have to take into account the level of acceptance the individual Digidestined would have on the matter.

Sora stayed with Biyomon to the end, and seemed relatively well-composed both before and afterwards.

I changed my reply while you were writing. Could you, please, change the quote?
 

JR9386

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I'm not a fan of the whole "maturing causes one to lose their Digimon" plot, but one aspect confuses me: why is it the three Digidestined who have jobs are the only ones we don't see lose their Digimon until the credits? You'd think they'd go first 'cause of that; Joe especially. Is it intentional?
I would have wanted to see Joe and Mimi's fairwells. Izzy's would have been awkward IMO.

Speaking of which, Kari is mature for her age, wouldn't that possibly trigger a break in her relationship with Gatomon?

TK's would have been heartbreaking.

Ken's farewell would have been even more heartbreaking, IMO.

Does anyone agree that Ken's farewell would have even more heartbreaking considering what he and Wormmon went through?
I dunno. I reckon it sucks regardless. Plus the OG kids went through a similar thing in Confession.

I guess they could call back to the imagery of him holding Wormmon as he leaves to give it an extra gut punch, but you also have to take into account the level of acceptance the individual Digidestined would have on the matter.

Sora stayed with Biyomon to the end, and seemed relatively well-composed both before and afterwards.
I'd like to think that of the original cast, with the exception of TK and Kari, that Tai and Matt would have been the last to lose their partners. At least in retrospect that's how I see it in light of the shorts.

I can't confirm or deny this, but I suspect Joe and Gomamon's farewell would have happened when Gomamon was in the ICU (Probably Level 2 or 3) following his getting hit by a car. That scene sticks with me, because I had a similar situation occur with my own dog who had gone in for surgery at a specialty hospital. I was there with him in the ICU as he was recovering from anesthesia. He made it through the surgery, but not through the recovery. I was there as he said his final goodbye when he woke up AFTER he had been extubated. It happened so quickly, but it reminded me of our first meeting. He was sleeping when he was a puppy, and woke up to my being there. That's the same way we parted ways. So to me, not because I'm projecting too much onto Joe, but as someone who had gotten into the field of animal medicine, because of all the care, patience and dedication my dog taught me, to lose him as I did, I think it would have been appropriate for Gomamon to tell Joe how proud he was of him, make one last joke, and fade away. At least that's my take on Joe's farewell as someone involved in the medical field.

I don't have much speculation on the 02 cast and their farewells. We spent just one season with them, and in my estimation, there wasn't much growth as we see with the original cast. At least not in the same way.

In my estimation, Mimi's farewell would have likely been as painful. I could see Palmon growing weaker, and Mimi sobbing over her, with Palmon telling her not to cry.

Finally, Sora, we never got to see those final moments between them, but I suspect that it would have been a beautiful farewell. Perhaps with Biyomon adding the finishing touch to the floral arrangement. All speculation, but something about beauty being fitting for a farewell between Sora and Biyomon.
 

JungleTrooper

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Wait, they had to say farewell to each other for forever?
 

JR9386

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Wait, they had to say farewell to each other for forever?

Not forever. The 02 epilogue is still canon.
I think I'm arriving at the conclusion that it's open ended.

The epilogue is canon, but I also think they left it open in such a way that the ending of Kizuna could also be deemed the ending for those unsatisfied with the epilogue.
 

Ricardolindo

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I'm not a fan of the whole "maturing causes one to lose their Digimon" plot, but one aspect confuses me: why is it the three Digidestined who have jobs are the only ones we don't see lose their Digimon until the credits? You'd think they'd go first 'cause of that; Joe especially. Is it intentional?
I would have wanted to see Joe and Mimi's fairwells. Izzy's would have been awkward IMO.

Speaking of which, Kari is mature for her age, wouldn't that possibly trigger a break in her relationship with Gatomon?

TK's would have been heartbreaking.

Ken's farewell would have been even more heartbreaking, IMO.

Does anyone agree that Ken's farewell would have even more heartbreaking considering what he and Wormmon went through?
I dunno. I reckon it sucks regardless. Plus the OG kids went through a similar thing in Confession.

I guess they could call back to the imagery of him holding Wormmon as he leaves to give it an extra gut punch, but you also have to take into account the level of acceptance the individual Digidestined would have on the matter.

Sora stayed with Biyomon to the end, and seemed relatively well-composed both before and afterwards.
I'd like to think that of the original cast, with the exception of TK and Kari, that Tai and Matt would have been the last to lose their partners. At least in retrospect that's how I see it in light of the shorts.

I can't confirm or deny this, but I suspect Joe and Gomamon's farewell would have happened when Gomamon was in the ICU (Probably Level 2 or 3) following his getting hit by a car. That scene sticks with me, because I had a similar situation occur with my own dog who had gone in for surgery at a specialty hospital. I was there with him in the ICU as he was recovering from anesthesia. He made it through the surgery, but not through the recovery. I was there as he said his final goodbye when he woke up AFTER he had been extubated. It happened so quickly, but it reminded me of our first meeting. He was sleeping when he was a puppy, and woke up to my being there. That's the same way we parted ways. So to me, not because I'm projecting too much onto Joe, but as someone who had gotten into the field of animal medicine, because of all the care, patience and dedication my dog taught me, to lose him as I did, I think it would have been appropriate for Gomamon to tell Joe how proud he was of him, make one last joke, and fade away. At least that's my take on Joe's farewell as someone involved in the medical field.

I don't have much speculation on the 02 cast and their farewells. We spent just one season with them, and in my estimation, there wasn't much growth as we see with the original cast. At least not in the same way.

In my estimation, Mimi's farewell would have likely been as painful. I could see Palmon growing weaker, and Mimi sobbing over her, with Palmon telling her not to cry.

Finally, Sora, we never got to see those final moments between them, but I suspect that it would have been a beautiful farewell. Perhaps with Biyomon adding the finishing touch to the floral arrangement. All speculation, but something about beauty being fitting for a farewell between Sora and Biyomon.

Could you, please, also edit the quote of my second reply, replacing it by "Does anyone have any thoughts on this"?
Wait, they had to say farewell to each other for forever?

Not forever. The 02 epilogue is still canon.
I think I'm arriving at the conclusion that it's open ended.

The epilogue is canon, but I also think they left it open in such a way that the ending of Kizuna could also be deemed the ending for those unsatisfied with the epilogue.
That's pure speculation. No such thing was confirmed in the interviews.
 

JR9386

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Could you, please, also edit the quote of my second reply, replacing it by "Does anyone have any thoughts on this"?

There's no need to. I elaborated on a few of the other chosen children in tandem. It was implicit. 👍🏼

That's pure speculation. No such thing was confirmed in the interviews.
It doesn't need to be confirmed.

If someone *personally* holds to the ending of Kizuna as their ideal way to end the series, the film lends itself to that. They can simultaneously acknowledge the intent of the creators who hold the epilogue as canon, while simultaneously ignoring it for their own *personal* headcanon. In so long as they don't argue that the epilogue isn't canon within the anime universe, they're fine.

I honestly don't know how I feel about the epilogue. Sure there are hints here and there regarding their chosen career paths in Kizuna from what we saw in the epilogue, but we can likewise ignore it if we'd like.

I personally find Menoa boring, but as a goodbye to the franchise, it's decent.
 
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