Digimon Adventure: Episode 4- Birdramon Soars

Piers

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It's a shame Snimon just starred at Taichi as he tries to smack it with a branch. It's like watching a Disneyland mascot role playing with kids.
Production values just continue to blow the brain. Is Toei/Bandai just making some arbitrary prediction that Digimon is going to be worth a ton or are there hidden demographic surveys showing a legion of new fans that just won't admit their love in public.

Would be very interesting to see if 02 gets rebooted and what changes would occur there.

Edit:
Seeing Koushiro and Tentomon get swallowed at the end there is morbidly hilarious. Wish that was just the end of their involvement for bleakness.
 
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ryuujinkurodou

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I recently notice some animation mistake

1. Is the river deep enough? If yes, why Greymon looks like he is standing when fighting Coelamon? In another side, they put animation scene when Greymon trying to swim and dive into the river to catch Coelamon

2. It looks like there is no riverside nearby when Greymon and Coelamon fighting each other, but when Greymon revert back to Agumon, seems happen in riverside
 

Golden_Fate

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Finally watched it, I have to admit it I didn't run to the episode like the past three. I suppose the hiatus unfortunately buzzed a little of my hype but luckily, I think by the end I'm back into it. Starting it off though, I've grown to really love the opening theme song quite a bit. Coming back to it was surprisingly comforting and I found myself singing along for the first time.

I really loved the episode because it felt more in line with what I wanted from the series: Classic Adventure and that just...makes me so happy. We got a Digital World that was recognizable (I loved the glowing balls of light!) and yet filled with so much mystery and intrigue. I can't wait to check out that temple!
I really did not like Sora's redesign the first time I saw it, but it's really grown on me. I especially liked her visor, which I believe she lost and her voice actress is also really charming. Birdramon was so much cooler in this episode than they'd ever been before (to me). I can't remember if it happened much originally or if I just forgot it all...but it feels so cool hearing the adult level Digimon talking as much as they are. I love the child levels as much as the next person but each level has so much charm.

But that evolution sequence for Greymon! I hope that's the standard evolution sequence because that was fantastic, I love showing the previous evolution during the process. It just made me so happy to watch. And on the subject of evolution, the insert song was also quite good. I probably like it as much as my other favorite Digimon song!

I'm eager for Mimi and Jou's debut!

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I also found it strange how acclimated Sora became to the Digital World. Even when she was surprised, she didn't seem THAT surprised. I guess they need to make everyone's reactions unique as we're gonna be seeing each one.
 
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Demetrius95

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While I am still on the fence about everything, it does make me curious about a possible 02 reboot. I would love to see the gang in a new light a with a new story (#justicefordarkocean)
 

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Ill take the little names appearing on the side over having to pause for the analizer every time a new diggle is on screen, ngl :p
I would have preferred some sort of updated Analyzer or even having more integrated (like in Tamers) as a function of the Digivice from the start. I don't think it detracts much from the story, if the introductions are placed well and especially for new Digimon it's nice to get a few stats on them without having to wait for separate sources like the DRB.

Still, it's really hard to tell why they attack at you. Snimon drooling and Piyomon running away situation easily could be misleading. And it's true Agumon sensed the danger when Coelamon approached but when Coelamon popped out and Agumon said we are not foods which it confused me. It seemed Coelamon was randomly doing "Flying Fish" actions to me.
What's so weird about a digimon understanding another digimon? I don't expect them all to communicate in japanese language. They probably can communicate like real life animals as well which humans wouldn't understand.
I don't think there is any communication or understanding going on really. I think Agumon was just making an educated guess that Coelamon would be trying to eat them and then yelled at it just in case it was sentient... but it wasn't.

Theories on this being "the dinosaur zone" ended up wrong.
I think it's still a bit too early to assume that. It migth very well just be general "ancient" part of the Digital World. Snimon might not be a dinosaur but mantises have been around since the Cretaceous, so it doesn't upset the pattern too much.

I know there is a theory that Digimon have more experience in Adventure 2020, but Biyomon's behavior seemed to imply this isn't the case.

There is an old war, but maybe Digimon don't remember.
I am pretty sure they do remember, but maybe not at first. Piyomon started of clueless but then there was a sudden moment of recognition. I would argue that the Digimon's memories have been lying dormant, but meeting their partners triggers them again.
Which is why in the next scene Piyomon's scared behavior changed and she told Sora that she would fight.

But lets be honest, if it weren't for plot armor, almost every hero in almost every story (not just Digimon) would be dead in the first 20 minutes
Only in stories that are not well written (and yes this is describing the majority of them).
And in this case it's not there was absolutely no way to execute the scene in a less ridiculous way... they just didn't bother.
 
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Tetsuya Suoh

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Ill take the little names appearing on the side over having to pause for the analizer every time a new diggle is on screen, ngl :p
I would have preferred some sort of updated Analyzer or even having more integrated (like in Tamers) as a function of the Digivice from the start. I don't think it detracts much from the story, if the introductions are placed well and especially for new Digimon it's nice to get a few stats on them without having to wait for separate sources like the DRB.

Still, it's really hard to tell why they attack at you. Snimon drooling and Piyomon running away situation easily could be misleading. And it's true Agumon sensed the danger when Coelamon approached but when Coelamon popped out and Agumon said we are not foods which it confused me. It seemed Coelamon was randomly doing "Flying Fish" actions to me.
What's so weird about a digimon understanding another digimon? I don't expect them all to communicate in japanese language. They probably can communicate like real life animals as well which humans wouldn't understand.
I don't think there is any communication or understanding going on really. I think Agumon was just making an educated guess that Coelamon would be trying to eat them and then yelled at it just in case it was sentient... but it wasn't.

Theories on this being "the dinosaur zone" ended up wrong.
I think it's still a bit too early to assume that. It migth very well just be general "ancient" part of the Digital World. Snimon might not be a dinosaur but mantises have been around since the Cretaceous, so it doesn't upset the pattern too much.

I know there is a theory that Digimon have more experience in Adventure 2020, but Biyomon's behavior seemed to imply this isn't the case.

There is an old war, but maybe Digimon don't remember.
I am pretty sure they do remember, but maybe not at first. Piyomon started of clueless but then there was a sudden moment of recognition. I would argue that the Digimon's memories have been lying dormant, but meeting their partners triggers them again.
Which is why in the next scene Piyomon's scared behavior changed and she told Sora that she would fight.

But lets be honest, if it weren't for plot armor, almost every hero in almost every story (not just Digimon) would be dead in the first 20 minutes
Only in stories that are not well written (and yes this is describing the majority of them).
And in this case it's not there was absolutely no way to execute the scene in a less ridiculous way... they just didn't bother.
I'm not sure about that. I mean think about it, a character is either luckily not in their home town when its decimated by the big bad, is inexplicably able to beat a foot soldier who, while not very powerful, has more battle experience, or the foot soldier is just incompetent, is not seen as a threat by the big bad and so is allowed to live, or the big bad is intrigued by them and so they are, again, allowed to live. Those are all type of plot armor, not that different from Snimon just forgetting that you actually have to chew your food.
 

Theigno

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I'm not sure about that. I mean think about it, a character is either luckily not in their home town when its decimated by the big bad, is inexplicably able to beat a foot soldier who, while not very powerful, has more battle experience, or the foot soldier is just incompetent, is not seen as a threat by the big bad and so is allowed to live, or the big bad is intrigued by them and so they are, again, allowed to live. Those are all type of plot armor, not that different from Snimon just forgetting that you actually have to chew your food.
Listing off different kinds of lazy writing doesn't justify some other arbitrary instance of it.
It's like saying we shouldn't count stomach cancer as cancer because of how many other types of cancer there are or something.

Another aspect you are ignoring is that there is a difference between circumstances that are simply lucky and/or unlikely and circumstances that pretty much rely on characters acting illogically.

To use one of your examples there is nothing inherently illogical about some main character not being in a town when it gets decimated. It's lucky but we don't have a specific reason to demand him to be in town at that day... because people leave towns sometimes. Now if said character was formerly characterized as an extreme shut-in, we're more in "illogical" territory.
In other words, it's a mistake to bring up specific events when what decides the quality of writing is actually the context, the believability around that event. A good writer could come up with very valid reasons for a villain to dismiss a character as harmless. That way no character has to act in a way that strains believability, even as the story continues to push the plot in its "constructed" direction.
On the other hand someone making an omelette is usually not bad writing but it can absolutely be bad writing if the omelette is prepared in a situation in which an omelette would be absolutely inappropriate.
Sure everything happens because the plot demands it to happen in some way or other and everything is constructed to reach a certain goal. What defines good writing is that the constructed nature of the story is either not noticeable at all, or only noticeable in definite aspects that were intentionally laid out by the writer.
If random things jump out at the audience as not believable the storytelling has failed, broken down.

Anyway, is "Digimon sometimes forget to chew" a fact established by the story beforehand? No it's not.
We have no in-universe reason to predict Snimon acting that way, making the reasoning basically post-hoc on your part.

If on the other hand the assumption that Snimon wanted to catch Piyomon in order to eat her turned out to be false in the first place, e.g. because Devimon is manipulating wild Digimon to catch the partner Digimon for him or something (while having a good reason to want them captive alive), then this would change the situation for the better for example.
 

Tetsuya Suoh

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I'm not sure about that. I mean think about it, a character is either luckily not in their home town when its decimated by the big bad, is inexplicably able to beat a foot soldier who, while not very powerful, has more battle experience, or the foot soldier is just incompetent, is not seen as a threat by the big bad and so is allowed to live, or the big bad is intrigued by them and so they are, again, allowed to live. Those are all type of plot armor, not that different from Snimon just forgetting that you actually have to chew your food.
Listing off different kinds of lazy writing doesn't justify some other arbitrary instance of it.
It's like saying we shouldn't count stomach cancer as cancer because of how many other types of cancer there are or something.

Another aspect you are ignoring is that there is a difference between circumstances that are simply lucky and/or unlikely and circumstances that pretty much rely on characters acting illogically.

To use one of your examples there is nothing inherently illogical about some main character not being in a town when it gets decimated. It's lucky but we don't have a specific reason to demand him to be in town at that day... because people leave towns sometimes. Now if said character was formerly characterized as an extreme shut-in, we're more in "illogical" territory.
In other words, it's a mistake to bring up specific events when what decides the quality of writing is actually the context, the believability around that event. A good writer could come up with very valid reasons for a villain to dismiss a character as harmless. That way no character has to act in a way that strains believability, even as the story continues to push the plot in its "constructed" direction.
On the other hand someone making an omelette is usually not bad writing but it can absolutely be bad writing if the omelette is prepared in a situation in which an omelette would be absolutely inappropriate.
Sure everything happens because the plot demands it to happen in some way or other and everything is constructed to reach a certain goal. What defines good writing is that the constructed nature of the story is either not noticeable at all, or only noticeable in definite aspects that were intentionally laid out by the writer.
If random things jump out at the audience as not believable the storytelling has failed, broken down.

Anyway, is "Digimon sometimes forget to chew" a fact established by the story beforehand? No it's not.
We have no in-universe reason to predict Snimon acting that way, making the reasoning basically post-hoc on your part.

If on the other hand the assumption that Snimon wanted to catch Piyomon in order to eat her turned out to be false in the first place, e.g. because Devimon is manipulating wild Digimon to catch the partner Digimon for him or something (while having a good reason to want them captive alive), then this would change the situation for the better for example.
So, reusing one of the most overused tropes in the entire series (Digimon being corrupted) would be better writing? Seems just as lazy to me.
And there are no established facts yet, its a new series in a new continuity. But we do know that sometimes animals don't chew properly (at least my dog sometimes doesn't) and many Digmion act like wild animals.
And there's is almost never any good reason to capture a threat alive. The only time it's even remotely viable is if you intend to try to win them over to your side. You could also technically try to make a case for capturing a living enemy to prevent their reincarnation, but then you still have the chance they'll escape. A smart villain, a logical villain, takes no prisoners and leaves no survivors. But that would end the story way too soon, which is why we need plot armor and sometimes bad guys acting dumb.
 
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Piers

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Anyway, is "Digimon sometimes forget to chew" a fact established by the story beforehand? No it's not.
We have no in-universe reason to predict Snimon acting that way, making the reasoning basically post-hoc on your part.

If on the other hand the assumption that Snimon wanted to catch Piyomon in order to eat her turned out to be false in the first place, e.g. because Devimon is manipulating wild Digimon to catch the partner Digimon for him or something (while having a good reason to want them captive alive), then this would change the situation for the better for example.
This is where Saban Entertainment steps in and does unauthorised dialogue for Snimon where he gruntingly explains that Biyomon's going to his nest and will make a Bird Consommé out of her.
It's presumably a case where they had to conceive several episodes worth of events over a lunchtime and didn't have the brain speeds to process problems like the above. "Araki Forgot" and all that.

Anime Science does have limits though and it's why I actually don't like Western comics/graphic novels because there is so much talking, typically for the purposes of establishing rules and over-explaining things.
 
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Sparrow Hawk

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Why do I feel like you guys covered up the poor animations of Snimon includes holding Piyomon in its mouth with "Plot Armor"...

Araki Forgot? Yeah it's weird but nobody brings it up for years to mail him about it....

It would be twisted plot if Vande and other guys were right about this. Drooling up instead of suspicious shady energy aura to cover up their wild sides and being manipulated were the working of the new villian(s).
 

Vice

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Glad that the Digivolution sequences and insert songs are back, now it feels like classic Digimon.
 

Mon-Ohma

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Well thanks to all the previews, I garnered a fairly accurate assumption of how the plot would play out.

Sora came across as likeable enough. But again, there is that distinct degree of nonchalance displayed by the main characters that I've noticed previously.
It doesn't really help to sell the danger or wonder of the Digital World to the audience, which is kind of a necessary component to any adventure. Jurassic Park springs to mind.
They could have at least had her initially believing Agumon was some kid cosplaying.
I'm hoping that Joe and Mimi might bring a more grounded balance, because otherwise things are going to get pretty boring if the entire group is like this.

On the positive side, the pacing is thankfully more relaxed. Though on the other hand the quality has noticably taken a dip, but that was to be expected as a standard practise of anime in general.
The majority of budget clearly went towards animating the evolution sequence, which unfortunatly highlighted the weakness of visuals even more so.
Birdramon's debut and fight with Snimon ended up looking rather stiff and underwhelming compared to Greymon's in episode one. I'm guessing that insert song will be the new 'Braveheart'.
There is the slim possiblity Toei might tidy things up a bit for home release, but don't hold me to that.

As for the evolution sequence itself...It was okay I guess, but did feel a bit cluttered in places. Like they took bits and pieces from other continuities, and mashed them together. For me, it's not quite as good as Geogreymon's.

Overall, I think expectations were probably a bit too unfairly high after the hiatus. But it does bring to point that the reboot can't just rely on nostalgia and fanservice to carry it.
The first three episodes had the flashy fight scenes, but now we very much need the substance.
 

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So, reusing one of the most overused tropes in the entire series (Digimon being corrupted) would be better writing? Seems just as lazy to me.
If they put a new inventive spin on the concept of mind control there would be nothing lazy about it, just like it's not necessarily lazy that the children have crests as long as they do new interesting things with them.

And there are no established facts yet, its a new series in a new continuity. But we do know that sometimes animals don't chew properly (at least my dog sometimes doesn't) and many Digmion act like wild animals.
If there were no facts in the new Adventure it would be absolutely incomprehensible to any human being.
And even if animals sometimes don't chew they'd still attempt to swallow... and Snimon also doesn't seem to try that.

And there's is almost never any good reason to capture a threat alive. The only time it's even remotely viable is if you intend to try to win them over to your side. You could also technically try to make a case for capturing a living enemy to prevent their reincarnation, but then you still have the chance they'll escape. A smart villain, a logical villain, takes no prisoners and leaves no survivors. But that would end the story way too soon, which is why we need plot armor and sometimes bad guys acting dumb.
Your argument is completely oversimplified. You make a lot of very specific assumptions about the villains goals, personality, methods and standards that all just happen to point to your preferred solution. But everything about the villain is up in the air at this point, new continuity and all that.
You are also wrong about a villain having to act logically in order for the story to be logical. Those are two very different kinds of logic, because one works inside the confines of the story while the other one views the story from the outside.

A character acting dumb or illogical is not automatically lazy writing. People act dumb and illogical all the time in real life so it is absolutely believable from a story perspective. But here's the catch: The story has to put effort into establishing them as a character that would indeed act in those exact illogical ways. Then it will feel natural for the audience.
Because the thing about "plot armor" and "plot devices" is that they are only the parts of the story that we cannot justify with in-story reasons, so we appeal to the higher logic of story construction, because it jumps out at us that those things are forced into the story by the outside force of plot.
The fact that this change in focus has to occur, that we are taken out of our immersion to justify them makes it bad writing in most instances.
But if there are well established reasons for characters to make an ineffective decision, or for the world to work in a certain way , we can accept it as believable right then and there. It is no longer "plot device" or "plot armor" because it naturally arises from the facts presented to us within the setting, the forced influence of the plot remains unnoticeable.

This is where Saban Entertainment steps in and does unauthorised dialogue for Snimon where he gruntingly explains that Biyomon's going to his nest and will make a Bird Consommé out of her.
It's clear that most solutions for the problem now that it happened in the episode are rather silly. But the writers are not historians, what they tell us wasn't set in stone. It was their responsibly to notice just how silly that situation was and to keep the episode from going down that road in the first place.
 
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Piers

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This is where Saban Entertainment steps in and does unauthorised dialogue for Snimon where he gruntingly explains that Biyomon's going to his nest and will make a Bird Consommé out of her.
It's clear that most solutions for the problem now that it happened in the episode are rather silly. But the writers are not historians, what they tell us wasn't set in stone. It was their responsibly to notice just how silly that situation was and to keep the episode from going down that road in the first place.
That suggestion was just a joke ;p
Although thinking about it, some dubs had actually explained things a little better than the original did, even beyond translation oddities. Digimon Movie dub connected Wallace's Digimon getting infected pretty well with Our War Game (unless Hurricane Touchdown made that reference as well, forgot.)
 

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The dub movie didn't really explain anything with that, other than using it to help justify mashing the three movies together.
 

Piers

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The dub movie didn't really explain anything with that, other than using it to help justify mashing the three movies together.
Did Hurricane Touchdown though? Much of the film's explanation borders on Tri levels of dull.
 

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I thought it was OK. So now the kids are going to be sucked into the Digiworld to meet up and learn about the big plot. Nice evo sequence.
 
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