Digimon Adventure: Episode 24- The Final Stage, DoneDevimon

Mattman324

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So when WarGreymon does it in a few seconds, it's okay because he's "designed to specifically" do that, but when DoneDevimon does it it sucks and is bad writing?
I mean, it sucked and was bad writing when Adventure did it, but A) it was still better than this, and B) this isn't a thread to discuss how most of Adventure had godawful pacing, it's a thread to discuss the most recent episode, which was bad.
 

Bartz

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I love Mugendramon in the original, but I'm not going to praise his role as perfect either. He only had two episodes to the other's three to four, and when it came to fighting he only went up against a bunch of Child Digimon, a Adult, and two Perfects before Wargreymon sliced him up in a few seconds. He didn't have as much opportunity to show off his power like the other Dark Masters and that was always a flaw in his role.
 
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Snorki McBolderbast

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This was another bad one.

I don't think Taichi and Takeru has had a single conversation without Yamato. So why is Takeru being in danger the thing that drives Taichi to dark-evolve MetalGreymon? This hasn't been built up at all.
It would have been slightly more effective if Taichi was the one unconscious on the ground, and Yamato dark-evolved WereGarurumon. He could have become some really ferocious werewolf-man, tearing DoneDevimon to shreds. But I guess the writers weren't creative enough to realize that dark-evolution doesn't have to be done by the goggle-head.

I also want to bring up MachineDramon. He was "foreshadowed" by appearing in MetalGreymon's evolution-sequence but... why was he there? Was he supposed to signal that "this guy is MetalGreymon's next stage"? But he isn't... I mean, he isn't the "true" next stage; WarGreymon is. MachineDramon is MetalGreymon's evolution gone wrong. So did MetalGreymon always intend to evolve wrong, and were just waiting for the right circumstances...? Why didn't the sequence show WarGreymon instead? I'm so confused.

Speaking of MachineDramon - I found his "reign of terror" underwhelming. Dark-evolution is supposed to show the audience pure evil, chaos, and signal that something has gone seriously wrong. But all he does is fight the bad guy. Sure, he's a bit more feral than before... but so what? I seem to recall SkullGreymon attacking his environment and even the heroes when he had dealt with his opponent, back in 1999 (although I admit I could be misremembering).

This whole episode is a fight-scene, which really only works if we're invested in the fight. Since DoneDevimon lacks both personality and motivation, he's really just another generic bad guy. This is a problem that every villain in this series has had so far (except for possibly Ogremon). No personality. The writers don't even do anything creative with the villains. For instance, a few episodes ago we had Splashmon - a giant water cat. Did they have him do any water-related attacks? No. Did he do any cat-related attacks? No. Did he have a personality, a motivation, or a function other than being someone for the protagonists to fight? No.

Anyways, back to DoneDevimon. Even though he's at the Mega level, there's no reason to fear that our heroes will lose. Every time they encounter a stronger monster, their solution is to scream "No!" or "Stop!", which will cause their own monster to become just as strong (or rather stronger) than the opponent. There are no stakes in these fights.

I also think DoneDevimon looks silly, and I find Demon more intimidating.
 

Mon-Ohma

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I mean, it sucked and was bad writing when Adventure did it, but A) it was still better than this, and B) this isn't a thread to discuss how most of Adventure had godawful pacing, it's a thread to discuss the most recent episode, which was bad.
There is some irony in the fact that the Dark Master who pretty much got the short end of the stick out of them in the OS has still managed to end up being the most popular regardless.

Though I can't help but wonder if this appearance isn't partially designed to hype up the new Amplified Model Kit.:unsure:
 

Lord Bearmon

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Speaking of MachineDramon - I found his "reign of terror" underwhelming. Dark-evolution is supposed to show the audience pure evil, chaos, and signal that something has gone seriously wrong. But all he does is fight the bad guy. Sure, he's a bit more feral than before... but so what? I seem to recall SkullGreymon attacking his environment and even the heroes when he had dealt with his opponent, back in 1999 (although I admit I could be misremembering).
Are you just gonna ignore the part where he shoots lazer beams at everyone almost killing Yamato and Takeru if they weren't saved by Gabumon???
 

Snorki McBolderbast

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Are you just gonna ignore the part where he shoots lazer beams at everyone almost killing Yamato and Takeru if they weren't saved by Gabumon???
Wow, I'll admit that I missed that the first time. I thought those beams were a part of his evolution sequence. I looked away for a second and then it was over.
However, my point still stands. Those beams don't seem to be intentional. It's like if... Remember Paildramon's evolution sequence from 02? He just shoots a bunch of random shots as he forms. What if he hit someone? It's not like MachineDramon looked over at Gabumon and the others and thought to himself "I wanna kill those boys. Pew-pew."
 

Tarama

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Well the difference in 1999's Dark Evolution and 2020's is clear. SkullGreymon was forced by Taichi. While Mugendramon evolved from MetalGreymon to save Taichi.

About Takeru and Taichi. There are gaps in every episodes since Takeru joined the gang. Also, the holy digimon is their goal and became their adventure motive right from the start. If it's Koshiro or Joe, or Mimi who partnered with holy digimon, the reaction from Taichi will be the same.
Taichi said it himself when fighting Splashmon, that "they've come this far..."
 

e105zeta

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I also want to bring up MachineDramon. He was "foreshadowed" by appearing in MetalGreymon's evolution-sequence but... why was he there? Was he supposed to signal that "this guy is MetalGreymon's next stage"? But he isn't... I mean, he isn't the "true" next stage; WarGreymon is. MachineDramon is MetalGreymon's evolution gone wrong. So did MetalGreymon always intend to evolve wrong, and were just waiting for the right circumstances...? Why didn't the sequence show WarGreymon instead? I'm so confused.
It’s literally just background lore that only makes sense if you dig into Digimon profiles since MetalGreyon was mechanized as a prototype for Mugendramon (along with Metal Mamemon, Megadramon, Andromon, and Metal Tyranomon).

I don't think Taichi and Takeru has had a single conversation without Yamato. So why is Takeru being in danger the thing that drives Taichi to dark-evolve MetalGreymon? This hasn't been built up at all.
But they talked in the old series 20 yeas ago that this series clearly expects you to have watched! Do your homework!

This is exactly what I meant when I said this series falls apart when viewed by itself. It’s basically a fanfic/fan animation. One of those youtube fan animations based on an anime that shows familiar characters in detailed “what if” fights out of context because as a fan work it’s not meant to or capable of standing alone.
 

BlankShell

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Definitely a fun, kinetic episode, but... TK can shut up for a few weeks now, thanks.

You can see what they were saving the animation budget for; DoneDevimon was all over the place (in a good way!) and then with the spirit-form Machinedramon and WarGreymon, it all made for a really good fight scene (which was basically the whole episode lol). And shoutout to the sound design there, DoneDevimon's laughs were always a little different and always very creepy. Good music too.

I liked Taichi's sacrifice as well, shoving Yamato off MetalGreymon, but it felt like it maybe came a bit too early in the episode; might have been better served as the final catalyst before rage mode. Still, it was in-character and made the episode feel like it was going somewhere.

I'm imagining they'll revisit Devimon at some point (Tokomon pointing out that DoneDevimon is all of Devimon's id with no ego makes some nice parallels to Myotismon from the OG adventure).

Wish the B team would get back in on the action at some point; they didn't really explain what was going on with the Argomon (next week, I suppose) and just watching them sit around a computer is kind of boring.
 

Snorki McBolderbast

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Well the difference in 1999's Dark Evolution and 2020's is clear. SkullGreymon was forced by Taichi. While Mugendramon evolved from MetalGreymon to save Taichi.

About Takeru and Taichi. There are gaps in every episodes since Takeru joined the gang. Also, the holy digimon is their goal and became their adventure motive right from the start. If it's Koshiro or Joe, or Mimi who partnered with holy digimon, the reaction from Taichi will be the same.
Taichi said it himself when fighting Splashmon, that "they've come this far..."
I generally think the reboot should be able to stand on it's own, but I think a comparison is apt here. What works better dramatically: That dark evolution is caused by someone forcing something that shouldn't be (like 1999 or Tamers), or when it' used in order to save the humans (just like any other normal evolution)? The MetalGreymon-MachineDramon evolution might as well have been a normal evolution, since the circumstances were normal. Every evolution so far has been about saving someone.
I think the 2020-writers are desperately trying to capture nostalgia but have failed to realize what made people enjoy the 1999-show in the first place. The 2020 one is just a hollow soulless copy.

When you say "gaps", are you trying to argue that Taichi and Takeru developed a friendship off-screen? Maybe every character have super-developed personalities, but that just has happened off-screen too!
It is the job of the writer to pick and choose which moments should be shown to the audience. And they should also write those moments in the most interesting way possible. Characters are the core of any story. By saying that the character-stuff happens off-screen just proves the problem with this series.
I do agree that when someone is in mortal danger, most heroic characters would probably act on it. My problem is that Takeru shouldn't be the one to unlock Taichi's "dark side", so to speak. It would work so much better if this was a personal moment for Taichi. For example - they could have added Hikari to the group instead of Takeru. I can believe Taichi being super-emotional over his sister, as their relationship has (mostly) been established (although, not as well as the 1999-show did). Alternatively, as I mentioned before, you could instead have WereGarurumon be the one to dark-evolve when Takeru's life is on the line.
The bottom line here is that the writers didn't put the right pieces in their right place, and it affects the quality of the storytelling negatively.
 

Lhikan634

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Definitely Tamers vibes with the dark evo. I do like that they show that his rampaging form is dangerous to the Digidestined as well as a sort of counterpoint to past dark evos. This one demonstrates a rage-induced digivolution based on MetalGreymon's rage in particular… however, I think it's important to note that Tai also was filled with a similar rage (and went all red-eyed) before being gobbled up. It works well on the Digimon-human symbiosis of being a Digidestined / Tamer.

DoneDevimon… wow, he was definitely more chilling than expected. He really embodies that sort of mindless, unhinged evil. The laugh also slightly reminds me of SkullSatamon's laughter. While I'm glad NeoDevimon finally got an anime appearance, I'm not just slightly disappointed they didn't use SkullSatamon in the middle. Phelesmon would have worked well thematically as well, though would lose the -Devimon name even more thoroughly (that also could have shown an increased-intelligence evo preceding the loss-of-mind evo). For such a simple design, DoneDevimon was done fairly well. Where they saved in terms of design complexity, they seemed to make up in terms of battle animation.

"Next time I'll digivolve myself into the next Dark Master!"
— Agumon, 2000
 

Libra

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Well, it's too soon, but I have a feeling that one of the main goals of the dark side is to corrupt Omegamon.

It explains why the yellow eyed octupus baby didn't throw Omegamon out of the digital world, and why the writers decided to introduce new upgrades, Alteros and Sagittarius only for the Agu and Gabu line. The ancient battle was shown in the forth episode, in which Deathmon was fighting for the dark side. Yellow eyed octupus is most probably the baby form of Deathmon. Fighting for the other side were 7 mega level holy digimon, 6 warriors, and Omegamon among others.

Omegamon forms when Wargreymon and Metalgarurumon, mega level forms of Agu and Gabu line, fuse together. And these two have been absorbing negative miasma since Splashmon fight.
First the upgrades, and then this berserk mode. Each time before a new miracle, they are absorbing dark powers and miasma. In this episode, Holy Digimon helped Metalgreymon cool down, but did Angemon purified the absorbed energy?

If Deathmon was defeated by Omegamon in the ancient war, it is a wise choice to bring this powerful being to the dark side, like what Devimon tried to do with Angemon. Metalgreymon and Taichi were loosing their mind after Done Devimon touched them. In the 1999 series, long time exposure to the digivice made Leomon evolve to mega.
Long time exposure to the dark miasma will also corrupt the digimon and the children probably. It clearly happened in this episode for both Taichi and Metalgreymon.
 

Notus

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@Libra touched an important point about this: both Taichi and MetalGreymon were infected by darkness, so it's natural their dark emotions are amplified. I don't think he needs an deep connection to Takeru to rage in this conditions:, he's a younger kid around the same age as his own younger sibling, big bro instincts kicking is fine.

And the biggest point I think some people are missing: the dark evo itself was triggered after DoneDevimon SWALLOWED TAICHI WHOLE. Seriously, if that can't trigger a dark evo, I don't know what would.
 

darkliza

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I'm not sure how this dark evolution was less worthy. It's just a different side of the same coin. Instead of Taichi's anger in his inability to protect his friends, we see a side of Agumon/Greymon that gives him a bit of humanity instead of just living bi-curiously through his partner. I appreciate this because while I still would like the character development from the old adventure focused on the human partners, the digimon should be given a chance. I don't see how both can't be done. To preface though, I haven't watched Tri yet, so maybe there was more going on with that. That being said, digimon are suppose to be sentient creatures, and as they obviously are, I'd like it if it wasn't just the side digimon who get more personality than the mains.

While I do like that the other group are off doing something else to help and discover more about the antagonists, it felt a bit too short. I wouldn't have minded if Donedevimon's fight was just prolonged so the other group could have more time. Minor complaint though, I just hope it won't turn into a common trend.
 

Snorki McBolderbast

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Instead of Taichi's anger in his inability to protect his friends, we see a side of Agumon/Greymon that gives him a bit of humanity instead of just living bi-curiously through his partner. I appreciate this because while I still would like the character development from the old adventure focused on the human partners, the digimon should be given a chance. I don't see how both can't be done.
I agree with you that separate character development for the partner-monsters would be nice - they are after all separate characters.

However, when it comes to the other stuff you said, I disagree a super-amount. I'd say the red eyes leading up to the MachineDramon-evolution is more like a bond between Taichi and MetalGreymon, rather than MetalGreymon acting by himself. It reminds me of something similar from Digimon Tamers. There's even a quick fade from Taichi to MetalGreymon when the former's red eyes are first revealed; hinting at them being connected through his rage. Taichi being eaten makes sense as the evolution-trigger. Sh*t just got real, so to speak. In fact, this connection-bit is done quite well; it's just the motivation behind it and the build up that I have a problem with.
I don't understand why MetalGreymon's fury would be an indicator of humanity or him starting to act on his own. These monsters are programmed to defend their partners, right? Taichi was angry and MetalGreymon was angry. That is indeed MetalGreymon living vicariously through Taichi. This is what I meant when I said I disagree with you.

By the way; I re-watched the fight in order to write this comment. It led me to find more problems I have with the episode. First of all, Yamato should be dead after being hit by DoneDevimon's attack, and then thrown to the ground super-hard and from a tall height. At least his back should be broken and the back of his skull should be in several pieces.

Also, Tokomon is at the Baby II-stage, yet he can create a shield that can stop the attacks of DoneDevimon, a Mega-level. As Tokomon evolves, I assume that this ability will gradually become stronger, meaning that the stakes have never been lower. I also assume that the writers will forget it and never use it again.
 
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Unknown Neo

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Spawnom Devimon there was something. Guessing it's a last option since he has no brain, only pain. But hey, an evil evo like that is interesting. Since he couldn't do SkullGreymon. But good thing Tokomon saved them with that. I'd say what I think we're heading for now but that's an ep or two away.
 

Mon-Ohma

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*Takes a good hard swig*

Okay, I'm ready...

------

Presumably to no one's surprise, we have ourselves 'yet' another episode entirely devoted to action, and a bit of a weird one at that...
In that it initially goes for the highly dramatic approach, but that is in turn offset by the number of unintentionally silly things going on over its course.

Starting off with Donedevimon himself. A design that for me straddles the line between being effectively creepy, and just plain goofy. Coming across as more akin to some demented child then a snarling monster. Spasming all over the place, giggling in a comically high pitched voice, whilst slapping everything in sight with oversized miasma hands.
It might perhaps be optimistic for me to hope that the intelligent side of Devimon managed to escape somewhere during all this, especially since he is the closest thing this show currently has a to a compelling character.

Next there is the fact they suddenly decided that riding a partner Digimon around in battle is actually pretty dangerous, only to undermine it later by having Yamato receive a faceful of Devi-breath before being smashed into the ground.


"Tis but a scratch!"

Taichi gets all red eyed and angry, before getting eaten (something I honestly found myself struggling to care about). Metalgreymon sort of turns into Mugendramon, resulting in a throwaway gag from a twenty year old dub becoming a premonition.


A wise relative of mine once said; "Remember to start your day with a good breakfast!"

Inevitably my old nemesis, Holy-Ex-Machina resurfaces. Which is something this reboot seems intent in turning up to eleven, to the point where even Takeru himself has been roped into playing glorified plot-device.
I'm wondering if by the end of this series Megumi Han will develop a form of logomisia towards that honorific akin to Nozomu Sasaki. I just hope when Hikari comes in we won't have it in stereo...
In fact, I'm almost certain a good two-thirds of the script consisted entirely of characters shouting each others names.

The bizarreness finally comes to end when Not-Quite-Mugendramon gives birth to Not-Quite-Wargreymon, who saves Not-Quite-Digested-Taichi from Quite-Done-Devimon. Now bare in mind everything that just happened took place on the back of Eldoradimon.

Oh, and Koushiro and co are still playing with those Tankers...

------

Upon reflection, I really don't know quite what to make of this episode. In fact I felt obliged to switch my brain off about halfway through.
In a number ways it's better then the Nidhoggmon confrontation, though that really isn't something to feel proud off. But it suffers from the old problem of not having provided an adequate degree of substance required to carry all the (frankly) forced emotional moments it throws at you. Especially since you know everyone will be perfectly fit and fine by next week anyway.
As the writers like to remind us, Taichi is the star. So as a result the narrative has to bend over backwards to ensure he gets spotlight treatment in major story events such as this.
Because there really is no other valid reason why they couldn't have given this moment to Weregarurumon and the brothers, which at least would flow more naturally.


"Sorry Yamato, but there is only room for one Onii-chan in this show!"
 
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