Digimon Adventure: Episode 15- Zudomon's Iron Hammer of Lightning

Rohan

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Completely forgot to mention but I love the attention to detail of Archelomon appearing for the briefest of seconds before transforming into Zudomon's shell during the latter's EVO sequence. Nice trivia callback to the reference book there. :love:

Makes me think Machinedramon appearing in MetalGreymon's EVO is a big nothingburger after all... :unsure:
 

Golden_Fate

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I didn't really go into this episode very hopeful. As I've expressed in the past Yamato-group is not the group I'm very invested in. In the end I liked it fine.

It's a little dickish that Yamato and Sora are kinda leaving Jou out of their planning, it might be a reflection of their budding friendship but it sucks seeing Jou want to be someone to be relied upon and not being able to really do anything substantial for the team.

The ice virus that Sora became inflicted with was a cool threat for the children to face. It looked really cool too!

As for the main action of the episode, it was alright. The sledding Ikkakumon was fun, but I don't think I really cared for Ikkakumon's voice. I love her as Gomamon, but Greymon and Garurumon have really great unique voices that had me questioning if it was the same actress, this is clearly just the same actress slightly adjusting her voice. In anycase, seeing Jou able to take leadership in the end was sweet and noble and I think I might just be able to warm up to him. I didn't hate the climax of the fight, the summoning of his Hammer was impactful and pretty epic. I didn't even hate the new evolution sequence song this time. Though I could have passed on naked Zudomon.

Mimi riding the Kiwimon. Just great. And the cave to the real world? It must be a trick! Surely it can't be THAT easy to get home. Ya?
 

Mattman324

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I mean, ignoring that it's just the entire "Yoshino grows and gets her Perfect" arc from Savers redone, complete with someone getting deathly ill and, uh...

It feels odd seeing Mammon as the main episode villain.
...this, it was decent in that Jou is one of the few characters who actually needed development and he got it. Animation quality was bad, and fight choreography remains pretty bad, but that's just how it is.

And I don't think Mammon got "censored" to remove missiles. That's absurd. Mammon has been the main episode baddie at least three times and not once do I recall it using more than Tundra Breath and occasionally Tusk Strike.

EDIT: Oh right, and fun reminder - after spending all of last episode talking about how he relies too much on his computer, Koushiro spent literally the entire goddamn episode looking at his computer.

Hmm.
 

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Completely forgot to mention but I love the attention to detail of Archelomon appearing for the briefest of seconds before transforming into Zudomon's shell during the latter's EVO sequence. Nice trivia callback to the reference book there.
Makes me think Machinedramon appearing in MetalGreymon's EVO is a big nothingburger after all... :unsure:
Obviously Gomamon is going to dark-evolve into Archelomon very soon...

I hope that Joe will finally stop that "leader" BS. He starts to be as annoying as Mimi was in the original series.
If anything this episode has encouraged him to step up as a "leader" more often. And personally I wouldn't mind if he was more successful at it this time.

Look like all digimon partners are fine with destroying digimon enemies... I guess it's probably normal for that digital world?
I don't think any group besides the Zero Two group had much of a resistance against using lethal force once it was clear that it's kill or be killed, and the resistance always came from the humans, Digimon are generally always up for a good murderin'.

Oh right, and fun reminder - after spending all of last episode talking about how he relies too much on his computer, Koushiro spent literally the entire goddamn episode looking at his computer.
Well, what else is he supposed to do? They have never seen the place they were going to meet up with Yamato's group so looking at anything other than the map on Koushiro's computer wouldn't actually be helpful. Not being over-reliant doesn't mean he suddenly has to be a Luddite .
 

Mattman324

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Well, what else is he supposed to do? They have never seen the place they were going to meet up with Yamato's group so looking at anything other than the map on Koushiro's computer wouldn't actually be helpful. Not being over-reliant doesn't mean he suddenly has to be a Luddite .
Because 90% of the things he was talking about when he mentioned an "over reliance on his computer" were things that were literally exactly that. I had a problem with it last week, and this is why - because the minute this series stops being single episodes and starts being "the thing you watch as a whole in hindsight" his entire focus episode is going to suddenly stick out like a sunspot.
 

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Because 90% of the things he was talking about when he mentioned an "over reliance on his computer" were things that were literally exactly that. I had a problem with it last week, and this is why - because the minute this series stops being single episodes and starts being "the thing you watch as a whole in hindsight" his entire focus episode is going to suddenly stick out like a sunspot.
At the end of the day, Koshiro is computer guy and he's always going to be. I don't think the moral of the story was that he doesn't need to use computers anymore, just that he didn't have confidence in his own intelligence without it. It sorta reminds me of where he ends up at the end of Adventure where he knocked his computer aside because he was worried about Tentomon despite still being glued to it before.
 

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Oh Joe, I had such high hopes for you...

Eh, slightly better paced than Sora's and Matt's episodes, but the B team definitely drew the short straw in the characterization department. I kind of liked the roundabout way Joe linked back up with his team only to force a scenario where Zudomon's evolution was required, but it still suffers from the same lack of stakes; especially when Matt offered backup, it definitely deflated any sense of tension.

I feel like all the pieces were there (Sora's injury, despite being a little trope-y, was a good way of setting the stage) so maybe it's just the performances, but Joe didn't really do anything besides complain the whole time. Gomamon is the real MVP here.

And on the "miasma confusion" front... apparently the miasma can also be a weapon?? Really, it's bad enough that we don't have a sense of what it does or how it differs from Soundbirdmon's hypnosis, but yikes that was random. Kinda fun to see Frigimon as enemies though, that's not always the case.

I'm glad to be done with this stretch of episodes. Next week looks really interesting!
 

ryuujinkurodou

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The animation took a dip from last time, which was kind of expected unfortunately.
But overall the episode was executed well even if I'm not sure I like Joe's devlopment quite as much as Koushiro's.
It also did a good job of keeping the other characters occupied in a believable way; Sora being incapacitated of course and while WereGarurumon could have fought, the fact that there were a lot of Yukidarumon around that could have attacked the kids while he would have been occupied with Mammon, so them making sure to lure all the enemies away actually was like a reasonable choice this time around.
Speaking of Sora, I think it was good thinking on the writer's part to use to use some data ice virus rather than just having abnormal growing but otherwise normal ice freeze her body like it seemed about to when she was first hit. If it looks less than the real thing there's less of an expectation for it to act like the real thing, as in leaving actual frost bite and such. It's still a bit cheap, but better than the alternative.

One aspect that still kind of annoys me is that it is never clear how much the Digimon know about other species and what they don't. Gomamon seemed well enough informed to know how exactly Yukidarumon's ice attack works and how to cure it, but that ice based Digimon could just freeze the river and walk across somehow never crosses his mind.

It was pretty gratifying to see that it was actually a challenge for Joe to not fall off Ikkakumon, while he slid and jumped around, it created a much better sense of risk but it still leaves an impression of hypocrisy when it's only Joe who has those problems while Taichi and Koushiro don't even seem to register their partners somersaulting through the air.

For Ikkakumon the evolution itself looked better than the fight, honestly. The movement when he clashed with Mammon felt too staggered, there wasn't really much that indicated momentum or weight being thrown around the shockwave effect that I'm pretty sure was only included to make up for the lack of impact in the actual clash animation. This trend of overcompensating in different areas continued for the rest of the fight, most notably when Zudomon spent much more time summoning his hammer in a storm of sparkles than he did doing any fighting with it.

The little scenes of the other groups worked better this episode than the peaks of Yamato's group in the previous episodes, but the Kiwimon part still looked like something that was thrown in just so they'd have something to do but the cliffhanger at the end made it worth it at least... Tokyo was just in a cave all along, who knew.

Hmm I wonder what's up with Mammon flashing the eye symbol for?!
Dunno, but it swaps his main attack due to censorships, coz his main attack is just like missiles.
That's not true. The missile part of Mammon's attack is basically a rarely used alternate form; The main use of "Tusk Strikes" has always been... you know, physical strikes with its tusks, as described in its profile.
Also the eye glows because it is presumably using its clairvoyance to see ahead, again as in the profile.


Dunno, but it swaps his main attack due to censorships, coz his main attack is just like missiles. Just like they swap MetalGreymon giga destroyer into giga storm
I'd argue the only reason MetalGreymon got Giga Storm was because his debut was against MetalTyranomon who has a pretty much identical missile attack and they wanted something different for MetalGreymon to set him apart and then they decided to stick with the new attack in later episodes. If there's a future situation that missiles would solve better than a laser blast (like hitting a target around a corner or something) I fully expect them to go back to Giga Destroyer.

then why did MetalTyrannomon keep the missiles?
That thing also bothering me. I assumed that they missed that. Do you know that episode 10 has the worst quality control and bad quality animation right? Alongside with episode 4.
That is literally impossible. The whole sequence of them attacking MetalTyranomon over and over and especially Greymon seemingly landing a hit only to be pushed back by a missile was one of the central sequences of the episode, it was the climax of of the "Greymon" part of the fight and a last grand statement of the power-gap between Adult and Perfect level before the protagonists made it to that stage, there is nothing about that anyone could have just missed; that would be like arguing that the original light saber duel between Obi-Wan and Darth Vader in the original Star Wars was only left in by mistake.
I also disagree about your claim about animation and quality control. Besides a few shoddy shots you'll find in almost any episode episode 10 had pretty good animation, easily in the upper half of episodes so far, as it should have as the big Perfect debut. There was good looking movement, characters were pretty much on model even from greater distances and the actual scene of MetalGreymon's debut and him taking out MetalTyranomon still rank as some of the most fluid and detailed sequences the anime has produced to date, even if it was disappointingly short.
Your explanations are quite good. Understandable. Like I said, in episode 10, there was a jump scene, where is Taichi surrounded by 2 or 3 missiles attack from MetalTyranomon, and suddenly it jumps into a scene where is Greymon and Taichi trying to avoid MetalTyranomon "electrical/lightning" attack. And yeah looking Greymon with human-like teeth is kinda bothering me too. That's the reason I said that episode 10 is terrible.
 

e105zeta

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It’s been a relief that the Garudamon and Were Garurumon episodes turned out to be outliers compared to the other four Perfect episodes. Sora’s and Matt’s were just plain bad, Joe and Taichi’s were acceptable, and Mimi and Koushiro’s were good (even if Mimi’s had very little to do with Purity).
 

lordramon

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Guys help I've been listening to the new ED so much and I'm afraid I'm gonna get sick of it soon
 

zerorynga

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Relieved that they kept the others separated with Joe, and with a good reason, unlike how illogical it was in the previous episode in which Greymon and Togemon "chose" to be overwhelmed, despite capable to evolve to Perfect-level.
It kinda bothered me that Yukidarumon were chosen as the lackeys of Mammon, instead of other Digimon that is the relevant prior form of Mammon.
Before this, the episodic minor villains or side characters are all somehow related, Scorpiomon and Yanmamon (both Insect-type, plausible evolution form), Andromon, Guardromon, and Hagurumon (the relatable evolution line), Cannonbeemon, Waspmon, Fanbeemon (the proper evolution line), then Okuwamon and Kuwagamon (evolution line as well).
But then, it's not like Mammon has any official prior form, although Mojyamon may be a better fit than Yukidarumon.
Nevertheless, after seeing the ice virus inflicted upon Sora, by Yukidarumon, I can only say Yukidarumon were there story-wise.
The physics and how things work around in the Digital World are not exactly the same as the Real World, so it's just irrelevant to compare to how Sora was frozen being unrealistic.
The animation may not be as good as the few episodes back, the fighting scene was not as intense, what do expect from two sluggish Digimon, but the evolution sequence of Zudomon, and appearance of Thor Hammer were great, overall I find the art style nice and consistent enough, still in the tolerable range, so I'll give it more than a pass.
Joe's words of resolve was quite good, he said to Yamato that he can deal with the situation alone, it was not a facade of acting tough, given his self-claimed "leader" farce, as he added that Yamato needed to stay and care for Sora, thus Joe needed to be reliable, (I don't see this directly related to his Crest of Sincerity/Honesty, but I guess being reliable is the one way of being sincere/honest), in which initiated the evolution of Ikkakumon.
Not really like it that the Crest of Sincerity shown in the eyes of Zudomon, (Perhaps a way to show he's imbued with the power of the Crest?) while there was none for others prior to this, inconsistency is bad, hope that others will have their Crests shown in the eyes, or other parts of their body as well.
And some thoughts about the treatment of Joe in this new reboot being the comical relief kind of guy, the same way in Tri as if 02 never happen, because Joe in 02 was very reliable, respectable and kinda trendy for that era.
Joe being the comical relief is more obvious in this one, I enjoyed it, but can't say I'm a fan of it, even at the end of this episode which Joe got better, he's still being disregarded, while this may be how others treated him as some ways of friendliness, but I do hope that others can respect him more.

Oh okay, this is lengthy, sorry about it.
 

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Relieved that they kept the others separated with Joe, and with a good reason, unlike how illogical it was in the previous episode in which Greymon and Togemon "chose" to be overwhelmed, despite capable to evolve to Perfect-level.
They've already established MetalGreymon is slow, and Togemon is just a physically powerhouse compared to Lilimon. That's why I assumed they never evolved.
 

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When Ikkakumon Transformed to naked Zudomon, the appearance reminded me of Gabumon. It's a nice coincidence that Gabumon, Zudomon, and Vikemon all wear the skin of other digimon/animals.
For the first time, I wished if Gabumon had a different line with more bulky badass desgins. He looses his horn and his dinosaur charm very soon.

Not really like it that the Crest of Sincerity shown in the eyes of Zudomon, (Perhaps a way to show he's imbued with the power of the Crest?) while there was none for others prior to this, inconsistency is bad, hope that others will have their Crests shown in the eyes, or other parts of their body as well.
Difference? Yeah. Inconsistency? No.
Inconsistency is bad, but obsessive approaches are the worst. They didn't do something do wrong that calls for kind of compensation. Showing the mark on Metaldreymon's tail, Garurumon's teeth, Atlurkabuterimon's horn, garudamon's chest, and Lilimon's arse is not what the series needs to be more consistent.
 

taz111

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Wasn't a big fan of this episode - the action was cool but looking forward to next weeks.

I did notice that when Zudomon was digi-volving that there was a turtle digimon that appeared behind him really quickly and landed on his back, creating his shell. Anyone know who it might be? I'm assuming it's just the remains of the Turtle digimon's data, like how Gabumon uses the data remains of Garurumon to create his fur coat.
 

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Yeah it was already pointed out it was that Archelomon and read up previous posts here.

Completely forgot to mention but I love the attention to detail of Archelomon appearing for the briefest of seconds before transforming into Zudomon's shell during the latter's EVO sequence. Nice trivia callback to the reference book there. :love:
But that shell of Zudomon's design is slightly different from Archelomon's shell. Just way bigger and it got steel bolt screws.
 

zerorynga

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When Ikkakumon Transformed to naked Zudomon, the appearance reminded me of Gabumon. It's a nice coincidence that Gabumon, Zudomon, and Vikemon all wear the skin of other digimon/animals.
For the first time, I wished if Gabumon had a different line with more bulky badass desgins. He looses his horn and his dinosaur charm very soon.

Not really like it that the Crest of Sincerity shown in the eyes of Zudomon, (Perhaps a way to show he's imbued with the power of the Crest?) while there was none for others prior to this, inconsistency is bad, hope that others will have their Crests shown in the eyes, or other parts of their body as well.
Difference? Yeah. Inconsistency? No.
Inconsistency is bad, but obsessive approaches are the worst. They didn't do something do wrong that calls for kind of compensation. Showing the mark on Metaldreymon's tail, Garurumon's teeth, Atlurkabuterimon's horn, garudamon's chest, and Lilimon's arse is not what the series needs to be more consistent.
Right, it was my OCD at work.
Although it's likely on purpose, but the body parts you assigned for the crests felt so wrong and it's hilarious.
I doubt that the production team will ever go obsessively consistent for this reboot, because aside from Agumon and Gabumon, we don't even have the proper evolution sequences for all the others, which is a shame.

Relieved that they kept the others separated with Joe, and with a good reason, unlike how illogical it was in the previous episode in which Greymon and Togemon "chose" to be overwhelmed, despite capable to evolve to Perfect-level.
They've already established MetalGreymon is slow, and Togemon is just a physically powerhouse compared to Lilimon. That's why I assumed they never evolved.
MetalGreymon may be slow (not really that slow to be overwhelmed by Kuwagamon), but I'm sure his Giga Storm can wipe out all the Kuwagamon, I can only assume that it is under consideration of the surrounding may collapse because of the attack (MetalGreymon still can use other less damaging attack though). But then, Lilimon can move swiftly and her Flower Cannon can deal perfectly with the situation. I can only drivel of perhaps it's Lilimon's plant-styled attack won't work well against Insect-type Kuwagamon (which is not remotely true), even if it's true, with the level gap and advantage, Lilimon can definitely fare better.
In the end, it's no major illogical plot hole because we can still come up with anything to fill it, but it's not what we should do, if only the writers were more meticulous.
 

Libra

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Right, it was my OCD at work.
Although it's likely on purpose, but the body parts you assigned for the crests felt so wrong and it's hilarious.
I doubt that the production team will ever go obsessively consistent for this reboot, because aside from Agumon and Gabumon, we don't even have the proper evolution sequences for all the others, which is a shame.
I didn't mean to offend you when I mentioned OCD. I believe a healthy dose of diversity is in fact helpful. Look at 02 and its problems.
But what is happening to evolution sequence is more like a toxic dose of favoritism.
Although it does not bother me by itself, it can be suggedtive of a very unbalanced series which will ignore 6(×2) of it's characters very soon.
The title is digimon adventure: [a digivice with omegamon's head]
"The white digimon" is foreshadowed to be the highest level of evolution.
A white digimon who is the combination of Agumon and Gabumon mega forms.
OP focuses on Taichi and Agumon, and the first ending was a Yamato centered one.
There is a high chance that everyone but Omegamon, Taichi and Yamato will soon become useless, which can be very disappointing. So I do agree with you that Taichi/Agumon and Yamato/Gabumon should not be treated a the only protagonists when there 6 other children and their partners involved.
 

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Right, it was my OCD at work.
Although it's likely on purpose, but the body parts you assigned for the crests felt so wrong and it's hilarious.
I doubt that the production team will ever go obsessively consistent for this reboot, because aside from Agumon and Gabumon, we don't even have the proper evolution sequences for all the others, which is a shame.
I didn't mean to offend you when I mentioned OCD. I believe a healthy dose of diversity is in fact helpful. Look at 02 and its problems.
But what is happening to evolution sequence is more like a toxic dose of favoritism.
Although it does not bother me by itself, it can be suggedtive of a very unbalanced series which will ignore 6(×2) of it's characters very soon.
The title is digimon adventure: [a digivice with omegamon's head]
"The white digimon" is foreshadowed to be the highest level of evolution.
A white digimon who is the combination of Agumon and Gabumon mega forms.
OP focuses on Taichi and Agumon, and the first ending was a Yamato centered one.
There is a high chance that everyone but Omegamon, Taichi and Yamato will soon become useless, which can be very disappointing. So I do agree with you that Taichi/Agumon and Yamato/Gabumon should not be treated a the only protagonists when there 6 other children and their partners involved.
This series has less chance of that happening than the original, where all the kids played 2nd fiddle to Matt and Tai for the entire final arc. This time they've teased all 8 getting their Mega levels, I doubt Omni/Omegamon is going to be an every episode sort of evolution
 

e105zeta

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I’m still holding out hope that the other kids get Jogress forms too, especially if we’re already getting War Greymon soon.
 

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then why did MetalTyrannomon keep the missiles?
That thing also bothering me. I assumed that they missed that. Do you know that episode 10 has the worst quality control and bad quality animation right? Alongside with episode 4.
That is literally impossible. The whole sequence of them attacking MetalTyranomon over and over and especially Greymon seemingly landing a hit only to be pushed back by a missile was one of the central sequences of the episode, it was the climax of of the "Greymon" part of the fight and a last grand statement of the power-gap between Adult and Perfect level before the protagonists made it to that stage, there is nothing about that anyone could have just missed; that would be like arguing that the original light saber duel between Obi-Wan and Darth Vader in the original Star Wars was only left in by mistake.
I also disagree about your claim about animation and quality control. Besides a few shoddy shots you'll find in almost any episode episode 10 had pretty good animation, easily in the upper half of episodes so far, as it should have as the big Perfect debut. There was good looking movement, characters were pretty much on model even from greater distances and the actual scene of MetalGreymon's debut and him taking out MetalTyranomon still rank as some of the most fluid and detailed sequences the anime has produced to date, even if it was disappointingly short.
People who say Episode 10 was poorly animated, don't know good animation.
 
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