Digimon Adventure, 02 and Frontier and the age-thing

KaenKazui

I come from the net
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
1,703
Age
30
Location
Germany
*sigh* Guys, I am so very tired of this...

I am actually quite sure, that I opened up a thread like this before, but I cannot find it again. Maybe I just mentioned it in some other thread... But however... Here I go again.

Why were the character age information on Wikimon - and now on Wikia - changed back to the old, wrong information?
I know that the believe that Daisuke and the others in Zero Two are 11 years old, since some of the old US comics (which also were released in Europe) told everyone so, but that everyone is so very sure to know it does not make it less wrong.
In fact: We don't know the exact ages of the characters in Digimon Adventure (apart from Sora) and can only name the characters age at the beginning of Zero Two and Frontier (well, at least it won't change in the real world of Frontier, as there only 5 minutes pass by...) The japanese original dub names only the grades of the characters and ONLY Jyou mentiones in Episode 35 or 36 that he actually is 11, but that's pretty much it. With that we don't know the age of any character. If we consider the movies as canon, we also know that Sora is 10 during Adventure...

And here is why:
In the japanese education system, where you can neither (under normal circumstances) skip a grade, nor repeat a class, the school year starts officially at April st of each year. As the first day of school tends to be on the second monday of April, this is were the actual school year starts.
You enter school when you have turned 6 by April 1st of a year, making you 6 when you enter the first grade (as long as your birthday does not fall between April 1st and said second monday, of course). With this you turn 7 while attending 1st grade.
This way you are 7 when entering 2nd grade, turning 8 while attending 2nd grade.
You are 8 when entering 3rd grade, turning 9 during the school year.
You are 9 when entering 4th grade, turning 10 during the school year.
You are 10 when entering 5th grade, turning 11 during the school year.
And you are 11 when entering 6th grade, turning 12 during the school year.
After that you obviously enter middle school/junior high with age 12.
For those, who don't believe me: Look it up on Wikipedia. Or simply google it, if you don't believe Wikipedia either.

So, as only Tamers, Savers and Xros Wars give us ages instead of grades, we know about the characters from Adventure, 02 and Frontier...

Adventure
2nd grade - Takeru, Hikari
4th grade - Koushiro, Mimi
5th grade - Taichi, Sora, Yamato
6th grade - Jyou

Adventure 02
3rd grade - Iori
5th grade - Daisuke, Ken, Takeru, Hikari
6th grade - Miyako
1st grade of middle school - Koushiro, Mimi
2nd grade of middle school - Taichi, Sora, Yamato
3rd grade of middle school - Jyou

Frontier
3rd grade - Tomoki
5th grade - Takuya, Izumi, Kouji, Kouichi
6th grade - Junpei

Adventure takes place between August 1st and August 3rd. And it seems you don't age in the digital world.
As Taichi's, Yamato's, Koushiro's, Mimi's, Takeru's and Hikari's respective birthday theoretically could be set somewhere between April and August 1st we cannot determin, whether they already turned 8 (for Hikari and Takeru), 10 (for Mimi and Koushiro) or 11 (for Taichi and Yamato). As I already mentioned: Jyou says himself that he is still 11 years old (he mentiones it to Gomamon, while they are thinking about how to get back to Odaiba). And as Sora has birthday at the end of March, as suggested by Movie 2, she obviously still is 10 years old. That's all we know.
This gives us the ages:
Taichi, Yamato: 10 or 11
Sora: 10
Mimi, Koushiro: 9 or 10
Takeru, Hikari: 7 or 8
Jyou: 11

Adventure 02 goes much easier on us. Because it starts with the beginning of the school year, which was, for Minato in 2002 on April 8th. As it is highly unlikely that in a group of 9, which have non determined birthday, one was born in the short span of April 1st till April 7th, it is quite save to assume that at this time all characters are in the younger possible age.
Again: We know that Jyou was born after August 2nd, and Sora won't turn 14 before the comming march. We also know another birthday: Miyako. Momoe mentiones in one episode that Miyako's zodiac is twins, so her birthday is set somewhere between May 21st and June 21st.
This gives us the ages for the beginning of the series:
Iori: 8
Daisuke, Ken, Hikari, Takeru: 10
Miyako: 11
Koushiro, Mimi: 12
Taichi, Sora, Yamato: 13
Jyou: 14
It is highly likely that most of them have birthday during the events of the series, as those events take place between April 8th and December 31st. Yet, at least Sora's birthday is not during the series, but after. Shortly before Movie 4.

Which brings us to Frontier:
Here we know two birth month: Takuya is born in August and Izumi is born in May. As she refers to May as "I will turn 11 in May" it is save to assume that the series takes place in April. (Which also makes sense considering that the series was first aired on April 7)
For the others we - again - don't know. As we don't know when in April the series takes place at least one of them might have turned older already, though it is unlikely, if you ask me.
But we can determin (it is actually said in Episode 3!) that Takuya and Izumi are both still 10 years old.
For the others...
Kouji and Kouichi: 10 or 11
Tomoki: 8 or 9
Junpei: 11 or 12

Fun thing about this is that one does not even need to know about the japanese education system for comming up with this. As we know that Takato and his friends are 10 at the beginning of Digimon Tamers and they are in 5th grade. As wel as we know Masaru being 14 (birthday April 2nd) and in 2nd grade of middle school (and Yoshino being 18 and out of school)... Using this two bits information it should be quite easy to come up with the rest.

Why is this always changed back in the whole wikis? I mean, why is it so hard to believe, that those old comics, which also claimed "Sammy's" original name being Shinichi and Ken's japanese name being Shinji made another mistake? I really don't understand.
We are all adults, aren't we? Can we not take a step back and just consider that some stuff we thought we knew growing up was actually wrong?
 
Last edited:

G-SANtos

I come from the net
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
1,042
Kaen, are you the anon that changed the ages of the characters on Digimon Wiki? Well, the thing is, Daisuke explicitly says in V-Tamer that he was born in 1991, so that's what is being listed there. We only list what the sources say, it's not our job to correct them.

Also, the Memorial Book lists some ages of the Adventure 02 characters:
Iori: 9
Daisuke, Ken, Hikari: 11
Miyako: 12
Taichi, Yamato, Sora: 14
Mimi, Kōshirō: 13
Jō: 15
Takeru's age is not mentioned.
 
Last edited:

KaenKazui

I come from the net
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
1,703
Age
30
Location
Germany
Yes, that me. Reasons listed above.

Well, I would not take those additional stuff like the V-Tamers comics for canon, as the author of V-Tamer 01 never came into contact with anyone of the series writing stuff. Sad, but true. But actually I made a mistake calculating. His bithday should be between April 1st 1991 and March 31st 1992. I somehow got mistaken by one year.

And I don't doubt, as said, that the characters TURN 9, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15 during the series (which after all covers nearly 9 months of time!) - just that they are not of that age at the beginning. For Jyou actually not for at least half of the series.
As said before: Jyou's birthday has to be after August 2nd. He might actually turn 15 in Zero Two just before the Digimon Kaizer is defeated. We also knows that Miyako turns 12 between one and two months after the beginning of the series.
But we now for sure that Sora's birthday is at the end of March.
Because the information given by the series itself is the primary canon. Additional information by any kind of guidebooks is secondary canon.
If there is a direct contradiction between additional material and main canon - which one will you trust? The series should be the primary source for information of that kind - not any sort of guide book. Those can be taken for information on characters not confirmed by the series, but if they contradict the series: Screw them. After all the thing about guidebooks is: As nice as they can be... They are seldomly written by anyone who actually had to to with writing the series. It is quite common for them to be written by some guys from a book publishing company paid for writing them. And then there are times where stuff from early drafts are in guide books even though that stuff was done differently later on.
Sadly it is a very common thing for guide books and extended material to contradict the canon of a series or movie franchise. There is also some stuff in the novels that does not quite add up with the series, isn't it? Which one would you consider as canon?

And fun thing about you and your sources... You actually listed Shuichon being 5 years old according to the japanese canon... For years. Even though the official japanese side says otherwise (her being 7). Same goes for Ai and Makoto being listed as being 6 years old...
And if I am not completely mistaken the whole rumor crap about Adventure being planned out as a 13 episodes series could also be found on Digimon Wikia for a long, long time.
I am... There kinda is a reason why Wikia is not considered a credible source.
 
Last edited:

Garmmon

I come from the net
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Jul 15, 2007
Messages
1,399
Age
25
Location
Singapore
I think the main reason for the rounding up is just to simplify things? I mean the ages you provided for 02 for example would be accurate provided none of their birthdays fall during that first April week. But what if they do? Nobody knows when their birthdays really are, so we just tend to go for the simpler option, to just list them as the age they'll be turning that year. You just can't be truly accurate with this sort of thing.
 

KaenKazui

I come from the net
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
1,703
Age
30
Location
Germany
I think the main reason for the rounding up is just to simplify things? I mean the ages you provided for 02 for example would be accurate provided none of their birthdays fall during that first April week. But what if they do? Nobody knows when their birthdays really are, so we just tend to go for the simpler option, to just list them as the age they'll be turning that year. You just can't be truly accurate with this sort of thing.
Well there is a reason, why the Tamers' cast, which is also 5th grade, was given the official age of 10. Because it is for sure, that those characters, whose birthdays we don't know, are 10 at the beginning of the series. Same goes for Savers. Though Savers is kinda confusing, thanks to Thouma being the genius that he is and having skipped grades by visiting school outside Japan.
For Adventure/Zero Two we at least know the age of Sora, Jyou and Miyako, as I said. Because we know that Sora's birthday is at the end of March, Jyou is 11 in Adventure and Miyako's zodiac is twins.
Same goes for Frontier: We KNOW that Takuya and Izumi are 10. Because they say so in episode 3.
 

G-SANtos

I come from the net
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
1,042
Well, I would not take those additional stuff like the V-Tamers comics for canon, as the author of V-Tamer 01 never came into contact with anyone of the series writing stuff.
Doesn't change the fact that we have a source that says "Daisuke was born in 1991" and no 02 source that says "Daisuke was born in not-1991".

And I don't doubt, as said, that the characters TURN 9, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15 during the series (which after all covers nearly 9 months of time!) - just that they are not of that age at the beginning.
Well, that's a good point (and even the theory Portuguese fan Rayana Wolfer posted on her page), but doesn't change the fact that we have sources listing ages for them and that's what we list on the Wiki or will list once the incorrect pages are corrected.

But we now for sure that Sora's birthday is at the end of March.
From where? If it's from Our war Game!, well, there's a woman in a market, and the food has an expiration date of March 4, 2000. Portuguese fan Rayana Wolfer, who made many analysis about the Adventure continuity (which is apparently lost due to her live journal being deleted), suggested it may be the kind of food meant to be eaten on the same day, I don't remember the exact term she used, which would mean the movie happens on March 4, which is also the date the movie was released. At any rate, the movie can't happen after March 4, and since Sora already had her birthday gift, her birthday can't be at the end of March unless Taichi gave the gift one month in advance. What reason would he have to do that?

After all the thing about guidebooks is: As nice as they can be... They are seldomly written by anyone who actually had to to with writing the series. It is quite common for them to be written by some guys from a book publishing company paid for writing them. And then there are times where stuff from early drafts are in guide books even though that stuff was done differently later on.
The character profiles in the Memorial Book mention stuff from the final arcs of the series and couldn't be in early drafts, so I think whoever wrote those knew what they were doing. Though I don't read much guidebooks (actually i think I've never one), so I'm not an expert in this.

And fun thing about you and your sources... You actually listed Shuichon being 5 years old according to the japanese canon... For years. Even though the official japanese side says otherwise (her being 7). Same goes for Ai and Makoto being listed as being 6 years old...
And if I am not completely mistaken the whole rumor crap about Adventure being planned out as a 13 episodes series could also be found on Digimon Wikia for a long, long time.
There was a time the Digimon Wiki wasn't very organized, and we still haven't corrected everything from that time. We are still working on rewritting entire pages and sourcing many info. I think only Frontier is near completion, thanks to Lanate's efforts.
If you don't like the inaccurate info, then fix the pages using the appropriate sources instead of criticizing our work.
 

KaenKazui

I come from the net
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
1,703
Age
30
Location
Germany
Doesn't change the fact that we have a source that says "Daisuke was born in 1991" and no 02 source that says "Daisuke was born in not-1991".
Yeah, yeah. I get that. Though would not change, that you could actually specify it as "Born between April 1st and December 31st 1991" - Because he cannot be born before April 1st, since then he would be in Miyako's grade.

Well, that's a good point (and even the theory Portuguese fan Rayana Wolfer posted on her page), but doesn't change the fact that we have sources listing ages for them and that's what we list on the Wiki or will list once the incorrect pages are corrected.
Well, we have one source. And that source can be proven wrong in two cases, so there actually is the question how reliable it is. I mean, those old comics are a source, too. But not a very credible one. We know about Jyou and Sora being wrong and also about Miyako... So it is questionable, what's about the rest of the group. Especially as it is just unlikely for Taichi, Yamato, Daisuke, Ken, Hikari, Iori, Koushiro and Mimi having birthday in the first week of April. So it would be at least an improvement to change it into a more correct way like "10 at the beginning, turning 11 later on".

From where? If it's from Our war Game!, well, there's a woman in a market, and the food has an expiration date of March 4, 2000. Portuguese fan Rayana Wolfer, who made many analysis about the Adventure continuity (which is apparently lost due to her live journal being deleted), suggested it may be the kind of food meant to be eaten on the same day, I don't remember the exact term she used, which would mean the movie happens on March 4, which is also the date the movie was released. At any rate, the movie can't happen after March 4, and since Sora already had her birthday gift, her birthday can't be at the end of March unless Taichi gave the gift one month in advance. What reason would he have to do that?
Yeah, Bokura no Wargame. And I know, there is the meat thing, but actually the movie takes place around April 1st (maybe April 2nd, maybe March 31) as it is the middle of spring vacation. Actually it is probably March 30th or March 31st, because normally the school entrance exams are set before April 1st, and Jyou is doing his entrance exam during the movie (which still bugs me, because it seems pretty late for a private high school, but it is spring vacation, that is set...) Why the date on the meat was so old... Well, nobody knows. At least not inside the Anime-world. Outside it was, of course, a reference to the release date. (And by the way: The Guidebook also mentiones it is vacation time ;D)


The character profiles in the Memorial Book mention stuff from the final arcs of the series and couldn't be in early drafts, so I think whoever wrote those knew what they were doing. Though I don't read much guidebooks (actually i think I've never one), so I'm not an expert in this.
Because it is an old series. But in general the people who wrote that book had nothing to do with the making of the series and just got some documents by some producers or something like that. The publisher, who brought out that book, is actually is specialised in Memorial Guidebooks to old series by different studios. They never ever came into contact with anyone from the writing team.
Which reminds me. There were never any birthdates set for the characters in Adventure. Jyou just happens to be still 11 at the time, but there is no official birthday for him. It was Reiko Yoshida, who came up with the Sora-Birthday-Stuff for the movie and with Miyako's zodiac for Zero Two. As a friend of mine really, really is into zodiacs, astronomy and that stuff I actually asked when we made those interviews, and they told us, that for Adventure it seemed to be not of much need, as the story takes place over 3 days in August and for a 3 days long story you don't need birthdays... And for Zero Two they were like: Ah, c'mon, it is a series for boys. Boys don't care about that stuff.

There was a time the Digimon Wiki wasn't very organized, and we still haven't corrected everything from that time. We are still working on rewritting entire pages and sourcing many info. I think only Frontier is near completion, thanks to Lanate's efforts.
If you don't like the inaccurate info, then fix the pages using the appropriate sources instead of criticizing our work.
I did correct those Digimon Tamers pages. And I am actually surprised that nobody changed it back, yet... -.-
And I now cannot change any other thing, can I now?
 

G-SANtos

I come from the net
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
1,042
Yeah, yeah. I get that. Though would not change, that you could actually specify it as "Born between April 1st and December 31st 1991" - Because he cannot be born before April 1st, since then he would be in Miyako's grade.
The "born" parameter is only for dates that were specified. Takuya and Izumi specified their months, so we list the months they were born. Daisuke and V-Tamer's Taichi specified their years, so that's what we least. Saying "Between X month and Y month" would be unnecessarily large text, specially given that the info doesn't have a source.

KaenKazui said:
So it would be at least an improvement to change it into a more correct way like "10 at the beginning, turning 11 later on".
We don't have a source saying that they were 10 at the start. All sources say 11, so that's what we are going with. Plus, if we were to list every single age they are seen, we would have to list even the ages they have in flashbacks and epilogues.

KaenKazui said:
Yeah, Bokura no Wargame. And I know, there is the meat thing, but actually the movie takes place around April 1st (maybe April 2nd, maybe March 31) as it is the middle of spring vacation.
Source? The movie says it happens at March (with all calendars saying "March"), if you can't provide a source that says it's April, then we have no choice but to say it's March 4. At most, we can list this as a continuity error, but we would still have to say it's March in any character/plot synopsis.

KaenKazui said:
I did correct those Digimon Tamers pages. And I am actually surprised that nobody changed it back, yet... -.-
And I now cannot change any other thing, can I now?
Shaochung's age is correct now, but you forgot to place the source. I placed it, but I don't know what's the source for Yamaki, Ai, and Mako's ages, so they are listed with a "fact" template on them (which puts them in the list of articles with unsourced statements). If you want, I can unblock you, but you must guarantee you'll follow our policies regarding sourced info.
 

KaenKazui

I come from the net
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
1,703
Age
30
Location
Germany
The "born" parameter is only for dates that were specified. Takuya and Izumi specified their months, so we list the months they were born. Daisuke and V-Tamer's Taichi specified their years, so that's what we least. Saying "Between X month and Y month" would be unnecessarily large text, specially given that the info doesn't have a source.
*sighs* Your problem is really, that you cannot exept common knowledge. Source: He is in 5th grade and the japanese education system works this way. Look it up on Wikipedia or any source you like. If you want me to, I will go and send one of the writers a email, so just that he or she can inform you of stuff that actually everybody knows in Japan.

We don't have a source saying that they were 10 at the start. All sources say 11, so that's what we are going with. Plus, if we were to list every single age they are seen, we would have to list even the ages they have in flashbacks and epilogues.
"All sources" being "one source that is actually very unreliable as it seems".

Source? The movie says it happens at March (with all calendars saying "March"), if you can't provide a source that says it's April, then we have no choice but to say it's March 4. At most, we can list this as a continuity error, but we would still have to say it's March in any character/plot synopsis.
Source: Look up any interview you like about the series, where they specify that the series is set in our real world with no changes whatsoever. Then take a look at half of the official plot summeries (or at the movie itself) where it is said, that it takes place during the holidays. Then look up the japanese vacation calender for schools in Tokyo in the year 2000. You will see that those vacations lasted from March 25th till April 6th. And voila. You have found the answer.
Apart from that: It would not change that Sora's 14th birthday would be after the end of Digimon Adventure 02. Because it does not matter whether the birthday is on the beginning of March or at the end of March. It still is before the 1st of April, so her birthday is at the end of the school year, making her 10 in Adventure and 13 in Zero Two.
And actually the fact, that you cannot skip nor redo a grade in Japan is even adressed in Adventure 02. So all of this in onscreen information. And I will repeat again: In series information should not be cancelled out of outside sources.
Which brings me to: The Guidebook is simply wrong and there is no saying from where they got the information. Because it does not fit with the information given by the writers of the series.
And as I said: For those other characters neither the writers not the producers did set birthdays, during the production of the series. So it is more then questionable where those guys writing the memorial book got that information from.

Which by the way reminds me: There was actually a case like that before. In one of the Doremi Guidebooks the given birthdays where also complete bullshit that did not add up with the birthdays given by the series itself. For example it also gave wrong birthyears for a couple of characters, which made absolutely no sense (Hatsuki would have been only 5 years older then Hana - which makes no sense at all, because we know from the series itself, that Hatsuki just turned 9 by the time Hana was born). So it actually is not that uncommon.
Also the Pokémon Anime Guidebooks tend to contradict each other, depending on the publisher (because there are seemingly two different publishers working on Pokémon Anime Guidebooks).
Problem seems to be most of the time, that the guide book writers really just get a few sheets of paper and are suppoed to turn that into a complete guidebook. This is anime production management... It is completely chaotic at times.
And yeah... I have some Guidebooks from different series.

Shaochung's age is correct now, but you forgot to place the source. I placed it, but I don't know what's the source for Yamaki, Ai, and Mako's ages, so they are listed with a "fact" template on them (which puts them in the list of articles with unsourced statements). If you want, I can unblock you, but you must guarantee you'll follow our policies regarding sourced info.
Just so you know the source: Konaka thankfully actually gives some ages for secondary characters on his homepage. Especially in the complete japanese casting list.
 

Inpu

How deep the rabbit-hole goes
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
4,518
Age
31
Honestly, I just want to get rid of the paramter unless stated explicitly, because I hate the idea of relying on "implied" ages in a series that not only soundly ignores physics, but explicitly includes time travel and ressurection.

The specific reversions I did ("and thus we show that Greymon tastes like banana", and all the other "weighs like a duck" nonsense) is because I think the idea of touting any bit of of "because of explicitly stated fact A, this must be true" is untennable in a show like Digimon, and I'm tired of seeing people constantly changing those parameters based on whatever they think their proof is. True, your argument is accurate and I have 99% trust in it (as a fan, not as an encyclopedia writer), but I just want the whole conversation either cited or dead.

And I will repeat again: In series information should not be cancelled out of outside sources.
If the in-series information explicitly contradicted the "outside sources" (which is a bit tenuous for a multi-continuity franchise like Digimon), then you'd have a primary parameter and a "but in this entry, they said X". But just leaving it as "X says grade Y, Z says birthyear W" leaves a hell of a lot of room for timey-wimey balls. Also, it's just really, really pointless to report ages in the infobox of a character who has more than one year of their life depicted in the fiction, soo....my vote was to only list birthdates in the infobox, and leave specified ages or grades for the flowing synopsis.

Also, I have really no faith in any debate of what "is" canon versus what isn't, unless the writers themselves are on record saying it is, as an official statement from the studio and not just as something they personally felt about the work. Just report all of what is official and have done with it.



Why the date on the meat was so old... Well, nobody knows. At least not inside the Anime-world.
Or, on a similar statement "Why it snowed in the middle of summer...well, nobody knows" or "Why they had spring break so early...well, nobody knows". The fact that multiple officially published sources apparently disagree on a simple thing like age when you bring in what is "just common sense" is all the more reason to just report the published claims and not assume anything that could be fallacious.


I am... There kinda is a reason why Wikia is not considered a credible source.
But actually I made a mistake calculating.
Give me a break. For every miniscule mistake we may have (which, shock, our setup allows people to correct by providing citations!), we have around ten bits of info you can't find elsewhere, or which you can because it was originally found on our wiki.

Pretending that wikis are somehow inherently less accurate than other compendiums of information got invalidated a long time ago. It's only more ludicrous to apply this to a fan-wiki argument about which bit of made-up fiction gets to be considered the "real one".

Because the information given by the series itself is the primary canon. Additional information by any kind of guidebooks is secondary canon.
Taichi alone appears in several different serials, and I'm not gonna play fandumb and say "only the Adventure anime counts". V-Tamer 01 was its own continuity, what happens in it is canon to it. Same with all the video games. Same with Fusion. The Adventure anime is not the sole worthwhile output of this series, and it's inimical to any kind of encyclopedia and really, anything but a very biased fansite, to pretend like it is the sole determinator of any kind of canon.

The whole damn franchise is canon. If there's multiple continuities, roll with it. Damn.

*sighs* Your problem is really, that you cannot exept common knowledge. Source: He is in 5th grade and the japanese education system works this way. Look it up on Wikipedia or any source you like. If you want me to, I will go and send one of the writers a email, so just that he or she can inform you of stuff that actually everybody knows in Japan.
I appreciate the offer, but I'm a bit uncomfortable about using private correspondence from a writer on what constitutes the "facts" of a series, especially if it is ever in conflict with anything officially published as part of the franchise. After all, the writer doesn't own the story or characters, they worked on it. For a company. G-SANtos, how do you feel on accepting private correspondence.

As for the common sense jab: I'll again point you to all the common sense-defying stuff mentioned in this thread alone, like the claim that they were buying expired meat without comment.


Source: Look up any interview you like about the series, where they specify that the series is set in our real world with no changes whatsoever.
(*raucous laughter*)

And actually the fact, that you cannot skip nor redo a grade in Japan is even adressed in Adventure 02.
Useful info, do you remember what episode this was?

So all of this in onscreen information. And I will repeat again: In series information should not be cancelled out of outside sources.
And the series consists of more than just an anime series.

Which brings me to: The Guidebook is simply wrong and there is no saying from where they got the information. Because it does not fit with the information given by the writers of the series.
The Guidebook is officially published as part of the franchise. It can contradict the anime, but unless it contradicts itself it is, by definition, not wrong in regards to the Digimon franchise canon.

Here, this covers it pretty nicely, and is fundamentally applicable to the Digimon franchise:

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Canon

Anyway, rant over, let me confirm that I understand the above correctly:

*Per the US comics (which?), Davis, Ken, T.K. and Kari are 11 at the start of Adventure 02. (US continuity)
*Per Adventure Ep. 1:
2nd grade - Takeru
4th grade - Koushiro, Mimi
5th grade - Taichi, Sora, Yamato
6th grade - Jyou
*Per Adventure 02 Ep. 1:
3rd grade - Iori
5th grade - Daisuke, Ken, Takeru, Hikari
6th grade - Miyako
1st grade of middle school - Koushiro, Mimi
2nd grade of middle school - Taichi, Sora, Yamato
3rd grade of middle school - Jyou
*Per Frontier ep. 1:
3rd grade - Tomoki
5th grade - Takuya, Izumi, Kouji, Kouichi
6th grade - Junpei
*Per Adventure ep. ?: Jyou is 11 years old on that day.
*Per Adventure ep. ?: Miyako's zodiac sign is Gemini.
*Per Frontier ep. 3: Takuya is born in August.
*Per Frontier ep. 3: Izumi is born in May.
*Per Our War Game: Sora's birthday is on or before March 4

*Per the Memorial Book, the characters have the following ages at some date (which?)
Iori: 9
Daisuke, Ken, Hikari: 11
Miyako: 12
Taichi, Yamato, Sora: 14
Mimi, Kōshirō: 13
Jō: 15

*Per V-Tamer 01 crossover, Daisuke was born in 1991.

We don't have a source saying that they were 10 at the start. All sources say 11, so that's what we are going with. Plus, if we were to list every single age they are seen, we would have to list even the ages they have in flashbacks and epilogues.
It should be fairly easy to program it for something like "Age 11 as of 08/02/01", or something, with a citation to the serial or quote for that.
 

TMS

Super Moderator
Staff
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Messages
11,622
Age
30
Location
Ohio
Not being able to move up grades is mentioned in Ken's interview in episode 9. I don't have time to check Miyako's sign, but I believe it was in episode 25.
 

Inpu

How deep the rabbit-hole goes
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
4,518
Age
31
Awesome, thanks.

Oh, addendum:

the ranty tone in my past post is not meant to be directed toward you, Kaen. I just have issues with the specific nonsensicalities of the series, and of how the fandom as a whole gets obsessed with the concept of "canon". Like I said, as a fan I agree with your analysis, but as an encyclopedia editor it's irresponsible of me to delve into assumptions.
 

KaenKazui

I come from the net
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
1,703
Age
30
Location
Germany
As I don't have the nerve to quote everything.

The fact that you cannot skip grades, nor redo them in Japan is adressed in the Episode where Ken is revealed to be the Digimon Kaizer. They talk about it in the TV-Show where the chosen children see about Ken.
And Jyou being 11 in Adventure is either adressed in Episode 35 or Episode 36 (I am pretty sure it was 36 - I cannot look it up right now, though).

For the meatpack having an overdue date, there can be a thousand logical reasons. Like some guy at the supermarket having made a mistake, or Diaboromon, who also changed the prices, having had his fun with the dates, too.
There are a lot reasons that are more plausable then the claim, that the real world works so totally different, even though the writers always say that it is OUR real world those characters come from... Which is basicly the concept of the whole Digimon Anime. Yeah. People don't act realisticly and there are later on monsters invading that normal world... But unrealistic behaviour also does not change that slice of life Anime are set in the real world, which, in general follows the same rules.
I mean, those guys who wrote the series, with all their mistakes, actually did put a lot of thought into the whole real world <-> Monsterworld connection.
So it really is kinda insulting towards them to claim the real world works completely differnt with a completely different education system, just because one memorial book says so.
Like I said: There was one Guidebook for Ojamajo Doremi claiming Hatsuki being born in 1995, which is obviously wrong, because the same guidebook also said that Hana was born in 2000. Stuff like that happens, due to misinformation and misunderstandings.
Sadly I cannot ask Reiko Yoshida, because her email address I still don't have. But you can be assured that the movie is actually taking place at the end of March. Because they would not change the complete set of vacations just to have a movie set on the day it is released.
It would actually also mess up Zero Two timeline... After all we know it is April when the series starts and we know the vacations are just over.
The whole meat thing actually might also just be done by the animation team as an easter egg. Toei loves easter eggs. Well... loved... Today they are... Less funny.

And really: What informations are on Wikia, that cannot be found anywhere else?
I mean, the whole Wikia's greatest mistake is that it randomly mixes up japanese canon with US-Dub canon with some other dubs, sometimes distinguishing them, but not always... Which kinda can just go wrong, because... Let's face it: No matter whether you like the US Dub or not: It turned some stuff upside down and completely changed some characters - like Mimi for instance. And due to bringing in some fun stuff and references and everything they also changed some backgrounds, as far as I understand. (I've not seen much, mind you, but enough to see the OOC of some characters and to know that stuff was changed for various reasons.)
So that whole concept ends up to be confusing at the best or just mixing up stuff (making at wrong) when it really goes wrong...
And really... I by now had it like 50 times and more, that I corrected some kid writing german Digimon fanfiction about having messed up facts in his or her fanfiction... And the answer is always: "But I read this on Digimon Wikia." And when I checked it up, they often were right...

About the comics stating the ages: I don't know which publisher released them in the US.
It where those colored comics being drawn by some US guy being released as some sort of magazine. Those got translated into German, French and Italian as well, including a lot of the unofficial information, that partly matched neither "canon".
Those magazines had some "Japan" corner from the Season 02 comics onwards (well, at least till the Tamers comics...) and there was some messed up stuff... Like I said. They claimed Ken's japanese name being Shinji or Shoji or something like that. (Thanks to that you actually can find some old fanfictions where Ken is called this *lol*)

Ah, and just because we were just talking about the whole Digimon Anime and relation to reality: Did you know that a lot of primary school in Tokyo actually go camping to Miyami Canyon or one of the other Canyon sides around Tokyo with their 5th and 6th grades at the first weekend of the summer holidays? It is on a voluntary basis of course.
When Takato and Jenrya go camping with their school in Digimon Tamers it actually is the same kind of trip the kids did in Adventure before stranding in the Digital World.
Though I find it still disturbing that, if we consider Movie 05 as being actually set in Tamers' main canon, Takato comes back from that trip and takes of to Okinawa the next day. Poor boy. Is on a rough schedule.


EDIT:
@TMS: Awesome, thanks. It is to long since I've seen Zero Two. So I don't remember the number of episodes anymore.
@Inpu: It is alright. I am not very nice, either. I guess.
It is not that I not appreciate you work with the whole Wikia and stuff. My problem... Is more with the mixed up concept and that with all due respect... There are not much sources quoted in a lot of articles.
And in general: I really, really don't rely to much on those guidebooks. Like I said, there was the thing with the Doremi guidebook and a friend of mine just told me that in one of the Sailor Moon guidebooks apparently they also wrote some wrong information about ages and blood types of some of the characters...
 
Last edited:

Inpu

How deep the rabbit-hole goes
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
4,518
Age
31
And really: What informations are on Wikia, that cannot be found anywhere else?
I mean, the whole Wikia's greatest mistake is that it randomly mixes up japanese canon with US-Dub canon with some other dubs, sometimes distinguishing them, but not always... Which kinda can just go wrong, because... Let's face it: No matter whether you like the US Dub or not: It turned some stuff upside down and completely changed some characters - like Mimi for instance. And due to bringing in some fun stuff and references and everything they also changed some backgrounds, as far as I understand. (I've not seen much, mind you, but enough to see the OOC of some characters and to know that stuff was changed for various reasons.)
So that whole concept ends up to be confusing at the best or just mixing up stuff (making at wrong) when it really goes wrong...
And really... I by now had it like 50 times and more, that I corrected some kid writing german Digimon fanfiction about having messed up facts in his or her fanfiction... And the answer is always: "But I read this on Digimon Wikia." And when I checked it up, they often were right...
Ex-Tyranomon has a good one. It's complete with all data we could compile, and to my knowledge, all data there is on it, period. There's also good coverage of all the stats from Dawn-Dusk, and Data Squad that, to my knowledge, can't be found elsewhere.

In-depth synopses of most episodes and characters (which overlaps with what Digipedia does a lot, of course, and probably other fansites)

Most of the profile translations that you can find on wikimon that are up to date are my own work, taken from Digimon Wiki. DMA uses some of them, too.

As for mixing up the canon, what we do is focus on the English canon, and mention differences in the Japanese if we've found them, or cover the Japanese material if it doesn't exist in English yet. It's not random, and most places using it should be using the <canon> template to demarcate where there are differences in portrayal. Are there specific locations where you feel this is not clearly communicated?

Also, as for the German guy: what did he get from the Digimon Wiki that was wrong? Kind of the whole point of a wiki is that if you find a mistake, you don't have to just write off the website: you can change it, while providing a citation to the published material. (to my understanding, if you're the anon G-SANtos blocked, it was because you were citing real-world ideas instead of the series itself, and did not engage in discussion when told that was not up to our policies).

I mean, those guys who wrote the series, with all their mistakes, actually did put a lot of thought into the whole real world <-> Monsterworld connection.
So it really is kinda insulting towards them to claim the real world works completely differnt with a completely different education system, just because one memorial book says so.
I'll pretend the production staff were perfect when they erase from time stuff like Piyomon having two beaks, or Beetlemon having completely messed-up attack names. They're human, they make mistakes, and unless Bandai's produced an official statement as to how they view canon in the series like Transformers or Star Wars did, trying to say which one "counts" without an explicit retcon from corporate is the path to self-contradiction and madness. There's no harm in simply reporting "this source says X, this source says Y" (which is an accurate reporting of the situation in the real world), and there is ample harm in trying to purvey a single source as the "prime source", when even that source has ample self-contradictions.

Is more with the mixed up concept and that with all due respect... There are not much sources quoted in a lot of articles.
Can you give a specific example? Most character articles, by now, should be cited with storylink, while species articles are cited to the Digimon Web or individual serials. I don't remember seeing articles without a plentitude of sources for quite some while.

But unrealistic behaviour also does not change that slice of life Anime are set in the real world, which, in general follows the same rules.
Honestly, just the fact that the Adventure 01 kids suffer extreme time dilation at least twice, travel to alternate timelines multiple times, and are also resurrected at least once throws a huge amount of doubt as to how their specified age could be considered valid. That's what I was referencing there--they're about as "11 years old" as the Doctor is. It's not meant to impugn whether the writers knew what they were talking about, it's meant to impugn the suggestion that the chronological situation isn't already f'd all to hell.
 

KaenKazui

I come from the net
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
1,703
Age
30
Location
Germany
Ah, well, actually that stuff like the translated profiles... It is nice for people, who cannot understand the official profiles, but I never use Wikis for that... Or character/episode synopsis, because I whenever I want that kind of information I would rather rewatch those episode, before I trust something somebody else has written, where I cannot always reconstruct from which version stuff comes from.
When I proud myself of having information that nobody else has, I normally talk about production information or stuff like easter eggs in the series, that are not listed elsewhere.

And really, you are kinda insulting towards the production stuff, because you compare apples and oranges. Blitzmon (are you even talking about the japanese version, here...?) and his attacks have nothing to do with the Anime - because stuff like that comes from the Bandai-team - not from the Animeproduction team. And just because the animation of a series is cheap it does not mean it is unrealistic or is badly written. So using messed up animation as a reason for proving that the writing stuff did not care about realism does not really work.

You see, you make one big mistake looking at the movie and other stuff: You look at it from your perspective. The perpective of a non-japanese hardcore Digimon-fan, who does not know much about Japan, as it seems.
But doing so you forget something very important: You are not the target audience for Digimon. The series is written for japanese kids. And it is written in a way for japanese kids to understand.
And - taking the whole movie thing as an example - now try imagining your were part of the target audience. Try to imagine you where a random 11 or 12years old japanese brat watching that movie, just because you love crazy monsters fighting each other. And maybe you like the humor. So maybe you even buy the VHS/DVD to watch the movie again a few times.
Will you even notice the calenders in the background? Probably not, because you are a kid and will not pay much attention to the background. Will you notice the date on the meat pack? Probably not, and even if you do, you will not think about it, because it is a pack of meat, that has nothing whatsoever to do with the story and - most importantly - the awesome fighting monsters.
So, if somebody asks you: When does this movie take place? What will you, a random japanese kid, answere?
Well, you notice two things about the movie: It is vacation time. And it is spring. You grew up in Japan and your whole life spring vacation lasted from the last week of March till the end of the first week of April. You maybe know, too, that entrance exams are before April 1st, even though you might not consider this, because Jyou's little subplot might actually have escaped your memory, because it did not include the awesome monsters doing awesome fighting.
So, your conclusion would be: The movie takes place at the end of March or the beginning of April.

Now... Go back to thinking like an adult and answere me one thing: Why would the writers/producers lead their target audience into a false assumption, by making them believe the movie takes place during their normal spring vacation time?

This is a general fandom problem, not only for Digimon but a lot of other Anime. Especially those being set in the real world (even though there might be magical girls and monsters running through their real world).
People, who are not japanese and don't know much about living in Japan, will asume a lot of things, due to easter eggs, some wrong information given by some sources or some misunderstandings (also a lot of time due to wrong translation in either the dub or some subtitles). No one in the target audience (mostly being japanese kids) would even make that asumption or believe some of those questionable sources, because in general these series lead them to believe that the main characters come from their normal everyday world - and apart from the very unreliable police in those series, they are given no reason whatsoever to assume that in the world of this series the vacations are at a completely different time or (to name a common mistake made in fanfiction) the duration of the characters' school days would be anyhow different from their day to day life.

Of course, as I already said: Character's don't behave realisticly. But that has mostly to do with a) them being stereotypes and b) them being role models forcing across a moral. But you will not think about stuff like that being a kid. Because being a kid you want to be as couragous and as cool as those characters are. You don't care about "small stuff" like the simple fact that you would probably shit your pants and run away crying when you see a 5 meters high giant, red horn beetle. What you care about is that those characters come from the real world, visit a "real" school in normal life and have a real family, with real family issues, that you might even identify with. Therefore you will not question that reality and this is actually the intention of the writers (as you can read in pretty much any interview with anyone from the writing stuff of any of the old seasons).

This kind of culture related different thinking is actually a reason why some of the character (like Sora or Jyou or Iori) does not work the same way in western countries as they do in Japan. Because their problems and some of their traits are rooted in japanese culture and believe, so it is kinda impossible for anyone who does not know or understand this culture and believe to perceive this characters in the way their were intended to be perceived.


For those mistakes I can remember: Most of the times it was either wrong levels, wrong attackes, mixed up attack names, wrong evolutions and stuff like that. Then I also remember that at some point there was actually information given about the divorce of Takeru and Yamato's parents, that was not official. Then Jyou's brothers were somehow mixed up, as well as Miyako's siblings. And I also remember stuff about the wild bunch with no correct source given whatsoever, that obviously was not true, and some wrong stuff about evolution and digivice rules in Tamers' and Savers' digital world. I don't know whether that stuff is corrected by now. And as it is kinda late over here by now I am to tired to look it up. And the last time I read through Yamaki's article - which was some month ago, mind you - there was a lot of stuff with either wrong citation (claiming stuff was from episode X where it clearly was not in...) or without any citations.
And that is just stuff I remember right now.
And I am actually quite sure that the whole "Digimon Adventure was planned to be a 13-episodes series" rumor was displayed there, too. Though I know at least that is gone, since I and some friends put a lot of time and effort into removing that stupid rumor from any wiki we could find in any language we were capable of.

And now I go to bed.
 

Inpu

How deep the rabbit-hole goes
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
4,518
Age
31
EDIT: removed ranty bits

The anime authors are neither infallible nor the sole determiners of what counts as "canon" to the franchise and characters, and the concept of "everything is based on the real world" is stretched so thin not just by the obvious fantasy touches, but by stuff just like culture (admittedly less so for Japanese culture) that it seems like cherry-picking to say that one thing obviously works as in real life, alternate published claims be damned, while cheerily accepting other stuff without question.

In response to that, the safest and most accurate approach, which the Wiki endeavors to use, is to simply report what each source says and let the reader pick which one they will take as their "personal canon".

For those mistakes I can remember: Most of the times it was either wrong levels, wrong attackes, mixed up attack names, wrong evolutions and stuff like that.
For these and the other mistakes you mention, without specifics I can't speak to them.

And the last time I read through Yamaki's article - which was some month ago, mind you - there was a lot of stuff with either wrong citation (claiming stuff was from episode X where it clearly was not in...) or without any citations.
Yamaki's article has now been marked for a rewrite. The whole thing needs to be scrapped, as it doesn't fit our manual of style. Thanks for pointing it out.

And I am actually quite sure that the whole "Digimon Adventure was planned to be a 13-episodes series" rumor was displayed there, too. Though I know at least that is gone, since I and some friends put a lot of time and effort into removing that stupid rumor from any wiki we could find in any language we were capable of.
The only place I've ever found it on the wiki was in a trivia section to an episode article (not main content), and I deleted it personally as soon as I found it. I apologize that it escaped our notice for so long in the first place.
 
Last edited:

Shinraisei

Junior Commander
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
207
Age
2019
Location
Canada
G-Santos
Source? The movie says it happens at March (with all calendars saying "March"), if you can't provide a source that says it's April, then we have no choice but to say it's March 4. At most, we can list this as a continuity error, but we would still have to say it's March in any character/plot synopsis.


Kaen
Source: Look up any interview you like about the series, where they specify that the series is set in our real world with no changes whatsoever. Then take a look at half of the official plot summeries (or at the movie itself) where it is said, that it takes place during the holidays. Then look up the japanese vacation calender for schools in Tokyo in the year 2000. You will see that those vacations lasted from March 25th till April 6th. And voila. You have found the answer.
​[/quote]

I can't take a screenshot on this computer, Kaen, but I do vividly recall that in first half of Our War Game, when we see Izzy's reaction to the Digi-egg on his laptop, you can see a calendar marked "March 2000" in the background. Throughout the film we do see mostly March calendars. No April calender in sight so we can exclude anything after March 31st if we're following the dates Kaen gave for the spring vacation back then.

However, on the Japanese Wikipedia page it does say the film takes place during spring vacation in 2000 but the short synopsis on the old Toei site doesn't mention anything about it being spring vacation.

Something to note from the movie though, is that it (Or, well, Hosoda) avoids showing any other date markers for the rest of the film. The post office stamp on Mimi's postcard is blurred and none of Izzy's emails are date-stamped. Even the sign where Joe's taking his entrance exam just shows what it is ("Entrance Exam Venue". There's other text, but it's hard to read.).

EDIT
Make of this what you will, but there are dates (March 4, 2000) seen when one lady picks up some salmon with the whacky 1,000,000 yen label (the best-before and the manufacture date/date prepared) but, it does correspond with the date for when the movie premiered and/or could just simply be an easter egg.






Also, re: the Guidebook, just a theory since I haven't read it---Couldn't one argue that the ages stated in it are the characters' ages at the conclusion of the series (before the epilogue, of course) rather than the beginning? I've never read it, but browsing through this thread, I can't help but think that that could be the case.

Yeah, that's all I can contribute to this. o_o
 

viperzerof-2

I come from the net
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Mar 4, 2007
Messages
1,061
Age
2019
their is a calender next to tai's computer in the movie as well it said early march but I haven't seen the movie in a few months
 

Blue Lightning

Junior Commander
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Mar 2, 2013
Messages
245
Location
Republic of Cascadia
This is exactly why I don't care for Digimon Wikia. There should not be a seperate English canon because there should not be enough differences between a dub and the original to merit a seperate canon. I prefer what wikimon does. If I type "Frigimon" into wikimon's search box, I'm redirected to Yukidarumon's entry, which notes that his dub name is Frigimon. In cases where the dub and the original use the same name or term for different things, they include disambiguation notes at the top of the page. So if you type in Scopiomon, you get the Scorpiomon page, but it has a disambiguation note at the top with a link to Anomalocarimon's page. Respectful of the original while still being accessible to those more familiar with the dub.
 
Last edited:

Inpu

How deep the rabbit-hole goes
Show User Social Media
Hide User Social Media
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
4,518
Age
31
Without getting too much into how ridiculous it is to blame the Digimon Wiki for how Bandai produced the series...you realize that there is a separate English canon, right? Like, with additional species and whatnot, tons of different characters, set in different time periods? It's not to the level of something like MMPR, but yeah, it's definitely distinct.

If we just prioritized the Japanese canon, we would be, guess what, Wikimon, which is why a lot of the exact same editors do the Japanese-prioritized work on Wikimon, and English-prioritized work on Digimon Wiki. For bloody hell, people, the two are basically sister sites, not competing for the same spot.
 
Top