Andy Kaufman Vote - Vallant

Danre

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[quote author=lost in thought link=topic=10889.msg137665#msg137665 date=1227233633]
@BlackWarGreymonX:
"to be honest, most people who voted aren't going to think about this in any detail. They will look at the poll tick a box based on a preconception of Vallant and move on."
And thats the rub right there, which trivializes an opportunity to actually give the members here the chance to vote on the outcome of a case, in a way akin to what a real jury might do. I think this also illustrates the problem, in that unlike the real court system, there is no stated liability for our community jury, should they commit perjury in judging a matter.

I am thinking the only way to make one of these work is to stipulate that should anyone vote out of benefit or favor, or vote without much thought and not supply a well thought defense of their position, I will ban them. Otherwise they would be free to not vote at all. It would probably kill off over half of the recognized involvement from past/current votes, but I think that would be a fair trade for attempting to make people define good reasons for why someone shouldn't be banned in the vote.

That, or forgo this entire process altogether and go about business as usual. 'Cause, clearly this isn't going to get us anywhere without making some kind of punishment for voting poorly.
[/quote]

I did think that maybe it should be required that people give some sort of reason as to why they vote yes or no in this kind of thing, something more complex than "He's my buddy" or "Eh, I don't like him", but that seems to defeat the point, since no one would vote.

If we're going to play mock court, I think we should appoint someone to play prosecutor and have the accused find a defendant. Have a full blown mock trial, do it right if we're going to do it at all.

If we're going to do this kind of thing, let's have fun with it.
 

BlackWarGreymonX

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That sounds like a fun idea...

Phoenix Wright court rules or Real court rules?
Who's going to pay the legal fee's?
 

lost in thought

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@BlackWarGreymonX:
"Would not the easiest way of ensuring that be to simply discount the votes of those who did then stipulate a reason?"
I suppose, if you want to judge someones capacity for reasoning, simply because they didn't provide one, rather than encouraging them to provide one to begin with.

"Who's going to pay the legal fee's?"
House rules, he who sees it pays it.

@Danre:
"[...] that seems to defeat the point, since no one would vote."
Considering that the likes of you and a few others have actually backed up their vote with reasoning already, I think we can be assured that although the number of votes would drastically decrease, they would be far more informative on the whole, and actually provide some kind of merit to the process.

I think we could get by with maybe like... 10 or 20 votes, instead of the current 50+ votes, if they actually provided some reasonable and well thought out arguments. Quality over quantity.

"If we're going to play mock court, I think we should appoint someone to play prosecutor and have the accused find a defendant. Have a full blown mock trial, do it right if we're going to do it at all."
That sounds like a lot of work.

"If we're going to do this kind of thing, let's have fun with it."
Ah, okay, then I reserve the right to ridicule the accused.
 

Danre

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Point taken. Like others have mentioned, someone with three posts voted on this one, which isn't going to amount to much in the long run. Quality over quantity would probably make for an actual justifiable vote.

As for mock trial... Nah, it's less work than you'd think. If a mod or admin cares enough to make this, they should be able to see it through enough to play prosecutor for their own trial. As for defendant... I guess that'd be up to the accused to find one. Unless someone on the staff just liked playing Devil's Advocate. It might not amount to much, but it's amusing to think of at least.

Lost, you can be the saucy Judge Judy figure. They aren't gonna piss on your leg and tell you it's raining!
 

Vande

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[quote author=BlackWarGreymonX link=topic=10889.msg137658#msg137658 date=1227230864]
Then again there are those who vote to keep Vallant just because they know he annoys Vande.[/quote]

Can you provide me with evidence to back up that statement? If it is true include names of those people and their votes get discounted.

The whole point of this topic was for people to air their views on what Vallant has done, all in the interest of fairness.

My hope was that he would either be banned or kicked up the arse enough for him to wake up.

This is starting to sound like a scratched CD.
 

Nightmare Soldier

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I'll admit I don't really venture out of the RP forums, but it's hard to hang out there and not form an opinion about Vallant. I see this conversation has kind of veered towards the admin/mods/respected members, but hey, I figure it can't really hurt to toss in one more explained vote, even if I'm not really saying anything new.

In perfect honesty, Vallant's spelling makes my brain hurt. He's had a plethora of offenses and seems to piss off the mods every day (and not even in new, exciting ways). Within about a week on the site, I was surprised the admin hadn't gotten rid of him from the way trouble seemed to follow him.

So I have to admit I thought I'd vote yes, but I decided to read through before choosing, and Danre's post made a lot of sense to me.

For one thing, I can't really fault the expectation that he will get himself banned soon even with a second chance. But if that's so, I don't really see the harm in him getting another week (or however long it lasts). Either he shapes up and becomes a good member, or you only have to deal with him for a little while longer.

I'll admit I'm in a RP with him, but I could frankly replace him without a lot of fuss, and I've done as much before with...digi-dude-444, I think. (And the RP is rather on its last legs, anyway.) I suppose it's that I don't think he's really the type of member who tries to turn you prematurely grey. He just does it on accident because he hits submit before asking himself how people will take what he wrote.

Maybe I'm out of turn, too, right now. I certainly know this isn't going to sway things either way, but, well...I guess I just wanted to explain myself rather than vote and run, so to speak.
 

MarcFBR

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See, part of the issue is this.

Despite how mean we appear to be, we are generally all nice people here to have fun, and understand the majority of you guys are also.

When someone pops in and does something stupid, banning can be done quick and easy.

But even if they are people we don't like, interacting and posting does bring something to the table and a legitimate reason for someone to not be banned.

But the rules are there to keep the peace, and they need to be enforced or else there's no backbone to them and no one will pay attention to them.

Wed' rather people just shape up than be banned, and that's the primary point of a Kaufman vote. We do the votes to say 'this is it', and give all of you the chance to say 'fuck it' or let them have one final chance (not including the group unbans we do sometimes, which in general they are let in on also).

At least in my opinion.
 

Vallant

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On the whole people voting me because they like me annoying Vande rumor. I am pretty sure that its got no truth behind it, as I'm only aware of one person who found it funny - Lost. But he's voted for me to go I believe so I don't think its an issue.

I'll be honest here, I'm more than willing to shape up, and become a respectable and law abiding member of this forum. All considering wether or not I get a final chance.

One last thing, I was wondering exactly why I'm having a Kaufman vote instead of being strait banned - not that I'm complaining, I just want to know why :p
 

BlackWarGreymonX

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I'll quantify that my comment was meant to highlight the ulterior motives of people in any election.

Unfortunately this board has no edit button.
 

SeiferA

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[quote author=Vallant link=topic=10889.msg137838#msg137838 date=1227358526]
I'll be honest here, I'm more than willing to shape up, and become a respectable and law abiding member of this forum.
[/quote]

Why am I getting a sense of deja vu here?

Well, if you say so either way.
 

Vande

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[quote author=Vallant link=topic=10889.msg137838#msg137838 date=1227358526]
One last thing, I was wondering exactly why I'm having a Kaufman vote instead of being strait banned - not that I'm complaining, I just want to know why :p
[/quote]

Cause i'm too fucking nice for my own good sometimes. That and see my past posts in this topic when i explained it.
 

Rexanimon

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Clean up your act or I'm voting yes next time.
 

Vande

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[quote author=Rexanimon link=topic=10889.msg138306#msg138306 date=1227665981]
Clean up your act or I'm voting yes next time.
[/quote]

There won't be a next time so that kinda make that pointless ne?
 

Vande

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The voting has now ended in Vallant's favour, so well done for surviving this far.

This is your final warning and there will be no more chances for you. You have somewhat shaped up since this topic went up so i believe it has had the desired impact.

If you screw up on any rule from here onwards, i will not hesitate to put the ban request in to the admins.

Good Luck.
 

Vallant

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Yeah, I understand.

I want to say thanks to everyone who voted Don't ban, it means alot. I would also like to say a Special thanks to Danre and BWGX, for fighting my case and I'm sure without them I wouldn't still be here.
 
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