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Thread: One Digimon with two different levels?

  1. #11
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    With Whamon, I guess the idea was that it's a big whale, so it's gonna be strong, but not quite the strongest Digimon out there. So, once the final level moved up one, they did the same to Whamon in turn (either that, or like what was just mentioned about Shakomon, maybe they just couldn't think of a suitable Perfect Vaccine for Deep Savers, or they REALLY wanted to fit in Rukamon but figured it'd be extremely awkward to have it be Whamon's Perfect and not the other way around, or they REALLY wanted to fit in Gomamon but figured Rukamon wouldn't work as a Child). I guess another thing worth considering is that, in the original Digital Monster V-pets, Adults were easily the most abundant level while Perfects were relatively rare, so it must've made sense to design the majority of Adults as generic savage beasts or fighters or whatever while the Perfects got more unusual designs (particularly the tiny mutants and whatever evolved from the poop-flingers)..... that, and the fact that every Digimon at a particular stage was essentially the same thing across all five versions, right down to using the same attack animation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chimera-gui View Post
    Yeah Minotarumon was of several Perfect level Digimon that had their level changed over time, specifically it became an Adult as shown in the Digimon Reference Book hence why fans acknowledge it as an Adult rather than a Perfect.
    Even before the Digimon Reference Book, Minotaurmon appeared in the 02 anime where (in the Japanese version) the narrator during its profile screen specifically calls it an Adult (amusingly enough, Tamers did something similar, with Ruki identifying Evilmon as a Child despite usually being an Adult). Minotaurmon's Adult variant also appeared in the card game not long afterwards (it was one of the Lotteria promo cards).

    Quote Originally Posted by Laasko View Post
    Itís definitely nice to know if the level is just some construction to measure strength (then Angemon should be perfect, since it is strong like a perfect lvl) or is it a level just like in POKťMON?
    Strength will vary wildly across various forms of media, but for the most part, levels do determine strength. Though, considering Digimon's roots as a V-pet, you could think of them more as life stages (which is still very apparent in the Japanese names). With that in mind, the idea is that Digimon reach their peak maturity once they hit Adult, though Perfect and Ultimate manage to go beyond that for Digimon who manage to survive (incidentally, Jijimon and Babamon don't usually come off as especially strong in certain media, but their status as Ultimates likely has to do more with their design basis, indicating the end of their lifespan). However, I guess it got a bit complicated since, starting from the Adventure anime, evolutions could be temporary while other stages (usually Child) could be permanently retained, and thus the franchise got its equivalent to the B-button in Pokemon (granted, you could probably say the same thing about the NPCs in Digimon World, though in the V-Tamer manga, it seemed as though EVERYONE, main protagonists and side characters alike, were capable of evolving over the course of the story..... except Gabo, oddly enough).

    And no, I don't get why Angemon was so damn overpowered in Adventure. My guess is that they needed a counter to Devimon whom, despite being an Adult, could come across as a main antagonist due to his basis as.... well, the devil. Plus, it was meant to be a pay-off for Patamon's evolution taking so long (with the arc relating some prophecy about the youngest child having the greatest hidden power, which I could imagine working as a theme of encouragement towards the show's target audience). It probably helped that they were on File Island, which was based heavily on the original Digital Monster V-pets, so Ultimate wasn't even a thing yet as far as the anime was concerned (I also recall some rumors that Digimon Adventure was intended to last one cour, which could've coincided perfectly with File Island's conclusion, but I'm not sure if that was ever confirmed).
    Last edited by Yamato-san; 06-23-2019 at 10:08 PM.

  2. #12
    Super Moderator TMS's Avatar
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    Angemon wasn't really unusually strong in Adventure. He just had an advantage over demonic Digimon. They bring that up in 02, where he's useless against Okuwamon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yamato-san View Post
    (I also recall some rumors that Digimon Adventure was intended to last one cour, which could've coincided perfectly with File Island's conclusion, but I'm not sure if that was ever confirmed)
    It's been thoroughly disproven.
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  3. #13
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    BlackKingNumemon was an Ultimate/Mega in Digimon World 3 (three WaruMonzaemon, Monzaemon, Digitamamon or Gerbemon cards would fuse into him).

  4. #14
    Super Moderator TMS's Avatar
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    For that matter, Digimon World 3's internal card game also had MarineDevimon as an Adult and BlackMegaloGrowmon as an Ultimate. Gotsumon was an Adult in Digital Card Battle, though it became a Child again in Arena (fittingly enough, given its Adventure-universe setting).
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  5. #15
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    Oh, speaking of the Digimon World games, I just remembered that Chimeramon was an Ultimate in Digimon World 2 (rather than a Perfect). Granted, it never actually evolved from anything, and could only (legitimately) be obtained in-game by transferring it over from the Pocket Digimon World series (where, oddly enough, it was treated as having its standard Perfect level).

  6. #16
    I come from the net Muur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yamato-san View Post
    Oh, speaking of the Digimon World games, I just remembered that Chimeramon was an Ultimate in Digimon World 2 (rather than a Perfect). Granted, it never actually evolved from anything, and could only (legitimately) be obtained in-game by transferring it over from the Pocket Digimon World series (where, oddly enough, it was treated as having its standard Perfect level).
    The code for the original Digimon World has Icemon, Meteormon, Flareizamon, DarkLizardmon, Yanmamon, and SandYanamon as Rookie level which I guess means they were all bumped up when to Champion when Mega came. DemiMeramon was also Baby 1 instead of 2. IceLeomon and BlueMeramon are also Champion rather than Ultimate, though they could be obtained in Japanese versions, so were "proper" Champions rather than just in the game's code.

  7. #17
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    On Wikimon, it shows Arresterdramon as both an Adult level and an Ultimate level Digimon. They skip Perfect level all together.
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  8. #18
    I come from the net Muur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryudamon View Post
    On Wikimon, it shows Arresterdramon as both an Adult level and an Ultimate level Digimon. They skip Perfect level all together.
    Champion was Next Order, Mega was Links. Next Order had a "Mega" Arresterdramon as well, but they had the level "unknown", though acted as a Mega since they came from Taomon/Megadramon, and GoldRapidmon/AeroVeedramon.

    I guess they have no reason to be Ultimate/Perfect since Shoutmon/Gumdramon are basically rookies. I think Ultimate would be interesting though, if they do a second version of Gumdramon to paralell KingShoutmon so we get Shoutmon -> King -> Omni, and Gumdrmaon -> new -> Arrest

  9. #19
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    I found the way that Hacker's Memory handled Shoutmon's level to be quite interesting. It evolves from a Baby2, it has stats similar to a Child.... by all rights, this should be a Child Digimon, and yet it just lists nothing where its level should be on the status screen.

    Incidentally, OmegaShoutmon has no level either, but has Ultimate-tier stats (which is hardly unprecedented for the Child-tier Shoutmon to evolve into when the first Cyber Sleuth had Hackmon Warp Evolving to Jesmon). I'm pretty sure the only reason OmegaShoutmon and Arresterdramon have "Adult" forms in next 0rder has more to do with how the V-pet system works. I guess it prevents Warp Evolution from being a thing, but OmegaShoutmon and Arresterdramon were portrayed as Ultimate-tier in other media, so the solution was apparently to have two different versions of those Digimon so they could still evolve from their Child-tier predecessors.
    Last edited by Yamato-san; 06-24-2019 at 10:36 PM.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yamato-san View Post
    Oh, speaking of the Digimon World games, I just remembered that Chimeramon was an Ultimate in Digimon World 2 (rather than a Perfect). Granted, it never actually evolved from anything, and could only (legitimately) be obtained in-game by transferring it over from the Pocket Digimon World series (where, oddly enough, it was treated as having its standard Perfect level).
    Chimairamon was also originally an Ultimate when he was introduced as the second component of Milleniummon in Anode/Cathode tamer. Ultimate makes indeed sense as it made him a more straightforward counterpart to Mugendramon, although Mugendramon does of course contain more parts of perfect Digimon than Chimairamon does. But then Zero Two came along and... well I guess it would have messed up the escalation of the story's stakes if they had defeated an Ultimate in the first half of the Series.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muur View Post
    The code for the original Digimon World has Icemon, Meteormon, Flareizamon, DarkLizardmon, Yanmamon, and SandYanamon as Rookie level which I guess means they were all bumped up when to Champion when Mega came.
    Except the Ultimate level already existed for months when Digimon World was released, it was just not part of that particular system. There could be plenty of technical or general balance reasons of why things were implemented as they were, and if the need to rebalance past monsters just because a new level was added had been a proper thing, one should have expected it to affect a lot more Digimon than just that weirdly specific collection.
    And for some of them the upgrade didn't even stick 100%... Icemon and Insekimon are Child level in Digimon Savers: Another mission but going by their stats and the game's generally shabby state, this could have been an oversight.

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