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Thread: Ideal Digimon World Game Pitch

  1. #1
    Completely digital McGann's Avatar
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    Ideal Digimon World Game Pitch

    Alright, so I know that World Games don't tend to have the broader appeal that the traditional JRPG Story Games do. Even amongst the core Digimon fandom, they can be divisive. So I can understand that they don't crop up as often. However, it got me thinking, what would my ideal version of a World style game be. This is what I came up with (and I'd be interested if anyone else had any thoughts):

    1. Keep the Tamer System from Next 0rder.

    Old versions of this system were a bit harsh. If you slipped up, you could even end up going back a level. This skill tree system of Ne0 makes it feel like even as your Digimon reincarnates, you are making permanent progress. I do think it should be tweaked.

    The ability to call on specific attack certainly shouldn't be available until much later. And the Order Points system should be kept, but slightly nerfed (or at least start out weaker). The ability to cheer on your Digimon, and then spend though points to make them definitely do something is a good feature to keep combat interesting, but in Ne0 it often felt like you were just controlling them directly, rather than you directing a creature.

    2. You only raise one Digimon this time, and he's not so big.

    You play as either Mameo, or an OC character that you can build in a creator, and have one Digimon to raise. (Perhaps reuse the 3 lives system as well.)

    There's a few reasons why I think raising one Digimon is better in the grand scheme than two, but my trade off for this is a new feature, where you can buddy up with any Digimon from the town to travel with you. And, if they're the same level, you can still use the EXE feature. (This would have some requirements e.g: once per day, perhaps needing some item, or affinity with the Digimon, but I'm not getting that specific.) (Digi-memories also make a return, and can be used for permanent Jogress.)

    So as you recruit more Digimon, you get stronger allies that you can venture out with to take the edge off, especially when your Digimon reincarnates.

    Also, Digimon don't get too big in this game. More Reigitize scale. While having giant Megas accompany you through the land is pretty cool, ultimately I think it has a negative affect on the level design, since everything has to be extra spaced out a lot for larger Digimon partners. It also causes the battle arenas to become very cramped.

    3. Raising mostly works like Next 0rder.

    While I love the original Digimon World, the raising system was just too complex and obscure. It's better in Reigitize, but I think Next 0rder's gradual feed of stats had a good balance between unpredictability, while still giving you some guidance. Plus, it splits the requirements into individual Key Points, rather than grouping stats like DW or Re, which is generally more accessible.

    I do think it should be tweaked. It should never reveal who the identity of the Digimon before you change into it to maintain the surprise. The stat feed should be more gradual, however, you shouldn't have to keep leaving the building to get them.

    It should also include use the mini games from Re, as these did a lot to make the training really fun. (Just standing statically in a room with no training animations, and doing the same slot challenge for every stat was a real downgrade in Ne0.)

    Going out and finding better training grounds was something I missed in Next 0rder too. You can really build on this concept: Have Digimon out there with their own dojos, recuit others that improve you facilities and introduce different mini-games. Maybe even have the ability to do multiple reps in one go, using more time, and upping the risk of failure, but also the chance of a higher yield.

    Also Battles should use up 15 minutes like in Re, as apposed to no time in Ne0. I like the idea that you can find hot spots to gain good stats in Ne0, but they should just up the stats and reduce the amount of battles you have to do. Much too grindy.

    Side Note: No recolours in the roster. Recolours are used for rogue enemies and non-recruitable NPCs like DW. I think it works better visually.

    4. No Quick-Saves.

    Like DW, you can only save at Terminals, or when your partner sleeps. Being able to save at any time guts a lot of the tension in exploring, battling, and training.

    Instead, as you explore the island, you can establish relay bases through the different zones, that are manned by local Digimon you've recruited. These function a bit like the tents in Ne0. You can rest, cook (which can be improved with the Tamer Tree to do more complex dishes, is available from the get go), save, purchase a small selection of items, and swap out travel buddies.

    Gradually, some of these bases can attain Digimon World 3 style short cuts (like with Digmon/Submarimon), but this would be limited and mostly later game to encourage analogue travel.

    5. Use a mixture of pose-able and fixed camera-angles. (And no maps.)

    The fixted camera work in DW made for some memorable environments. And the nature of this camera work made the exploration more interesting an tense. In most situations, it was an over-head view, meaning there was a direct link between movement and sight, ie: a direct link between exploration, and potentially putting yourself in danger of a fight.

    While some areas should have pose-able cameras, like large open vistas, fixed camera angles should be greatly utilised. They make the environment more dynamic, and can be used for story-telling an tension.

    (As an example, the large spinal chord and rib cage in body resort is kinda meh. But in ancient Dino-region, it's an eerie long distant shot, emphasising how dead the land is, filling you with a bit of dread at this ancient dying land that's killing your Digimon, AND, it's a perspective trick as-well.)

    The way the enemies react to you would have to be closer to DW or Re, where they have a small territory that you have to wing in and out of, the difficulty of which can vary on how they move and how aggro they are (maybe integrating line of sight too). Which I prefer to Ne0's approach, where you end up running in a straight line with a conga line of enemies in pursuit while alarm music plays.

    Also, no mini maps. It guts too much of the mystery of exploring the environment, especially when it signposts new recruits. MAYBE have them unlocked like in Re, but I think it works best to just have the cartoon map that slowly fills out, and rely of familiarity with the environment to navigate yourself (which should be easier with the fixed camera angles, since they make the environment more memorable).

    6. Stray Notes.

    Assuming this is a sequel to be a sequel to Next 0rder, Floatia has set sail to a new continent, hearing news of a new threat. On the way you're attack, and the city crashes off the coast, while you and several allies arrive inland. Your main goals are to build up your resources, gain Intel, and hopefully regain contact with Floatia off-shore.

    From there you build up the city from scratch. Like Re, you start off with multiple directions you can head, and a small skeleton staff of allies and facilities. (The multiple directions is important, as I think it helps orient you, and make the city feel situated in the world: Ne0's Floation always felt a bit cut off for obvious reasons.) Progression is closer to DW, where you add new buildings to a plot of land and it has a slap-dash junk-shiek look. (Ne0 got the build up and development right, but the City ended up looking a bit sterile for my tastes.)

    As stated, you can establish small bases out in the wilderness. The material gathering and development is mostly redirected to developing these outposts as apposed to the main city. The world design is larger and modular like DW, but more intersecting like Re, with the odd large open space like in Ne0.

    Most of the Digimon you recuit are new-comers, but some are also residents of the old city that landed inland after the attack.

    The Colosseum section, which is a zone in this game, function closer to Re, where you can use stored data of your previous Digimon to participate in some cups.

    Keep Botamon as the gossip guide that can point you in the direction of up to 3 Digimon.

    And generally have more varied methods of recruitment, and interesting contributions to the town. Sometimes recruitment in Ne0 felt a bit too arbitrary, like you'd get 3 members for fight, whereas DW had more unique and mysterious ways of bringing people to town, like passing out in Freezeland, finding Nanimon, or beating Penguinmon in curling for the price of a fish. Even Ne0 had this cool logic puzzle with the Gotsumon, but it didn't even lead to a recruitment.

    And the cool stuff they add to the town, like aforementioned curling, or Gomamon's fishing, or the theatre viewing or card restoration. Something like yakuza style Karaoke mini games would be cool; like maybe if you do well in them, you can increase your Digimon's stats or Happiness.

    That's about it.
    Last edited by McGann; 02-10-2019 at 03:08 PM.
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  2. #2
    I come from the net Muur's Avatar
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    I don't think order power should be nerfed, "basically controlling them" is probably what they were going for to make things less annoying. I never used that though, I saved it for finishers and EXE, and I'd assume most other people did. Plus, your Digimon do the move on the exact spot theyre on... which is kinda annoying lol. they would always just miss when I told them directly.

    I think two Digimon is the way to go, but they need to balance it better. the game seemed like it was still geared to only having one partner. as for bringing back the life system, I say no - DWNO is way too long and grindy, with a lot of BS battles and it would suck as most people would be stuck grinding even more. unless they made the game ridiculously easy to compensate, you should be able to lose as many times as needed like in DWNO. I think most of this stems from them boosting to 99999/9999 in place of 9999/999, without boosting the amount of stats you get, making it ten times more of a grind.

    They should keep it like next order, because knowing what the digimon are on the tree, and knowing what stats you need is better and more rewarding. whilst random digivolving can be fun in a way, it can also be frustrating when you dont know what stats you need, do it at random, then either get something that sucks and doenst match your stats and moves, or because you were doing the wrong stats, end up dying and wasting your time. they could perhaps only show the stats needed and not the mon, I guess, but if you dont wanna know, dont check the evolution tree. being able to choose makes things more simple and less annoying.

    battles should use up an hour, maybe. you clearly weren't supposed to abuse battle to level up, and tbh I didn't and beat the game, it's just impatient people. they should have more of a punishment if you abuse battles in the next game, as that's not really the intended way to play.

    all cameras shouldbe movable in all games of every genre of any game regardless of series. cyber sleuth has 0 and its annoying.

    keep maps.

    if its floatia, why did the 200 digimon takuto/shiki recruit leave?

    yes, they needed to allow you to use your dead digimon for something. the pointless "online battles" is the laziest worst feature ever.

    also, no recolours. not even as enemy exclusive. if the model is in the game, it should be playable. I hate NPC only digimon. so if I did see a NPC mon and its not playable, I'd be pissed off. not as much as if its orange growlmon, but digimon world had stuff like gotsumon or yanmamon NPC only, and redigitze seemed to have loads NPC only. kudamon for example off the top of my head. if they make a model, it has to be playable, that would be my rule.

    stuff like eaters would obviously be an exception.

  3. #3
    Completely digital McGann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muur View Post
    I don't think order power should be nerfed, "basically controlling them" is probably what they were going for to make things less annoying.
    To some degree this is a difference of opinion, but I think if you can just always control your Digimon, then what's the point of the stats that make it more capable of fighting on their own. I'm not saying they should never follow direct commands, just that the ability to do so should be slightly more earned, a little more spaced out during the actual battle.

    You've also reminded me, that the Defend function should be more segmented as an upgrade. Just going from "being able to defend" to "blocks all damage entirley", is too sharp a progression.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muur View Post
    I think two Digimon is the way to go, but they need to balance it better. the game seemed like it was still geared to only having one partner. as for bringing back the life system, I say no - DWNO is way too long and grindy, with a lot of BS battles and it would suck as most people would be stuck grinding even more.
    I was on the fence about the lives system, but you've swayed me. I do think there needs to be some penalty for death. I guess Ne0's system of having to start back at the city, your being Digimon fully injured, and losing some Discipline/Happiness would be enough.

    I still think having one Digimon is better, though I'm not wholey against two. I think the Buddy System is a good compromise between the two.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muur View Post
    They could perhaps only show the stats needed and not the mon, I guess, but if you dont wanna know, dont check the evolution tree.
    I do like some of the stats revealed to have some direction and not waste a life cycle, but I don't wanna know what they're gonna lead me to until I've actually turned the Digimon into it, which I think is the best balance between getting a result, while retaining some surprise. You've also reminded me: I would remove the "Key Digi" stat for this reason, since it favours familiar evolution lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muur View Post
    Battles should use up an hour, maybe. you clearly weren't supposed to abuse battle to level up, and tbh I didn't and beat the game, it's just impatient people. they should have more of a punishment if you abuse battles in the next game, as that's not really the intended way to play.
    Were they not meant to be used this way? I got the sense that it was an intentional design, especially as certain groups eventually stop yielding high stats once you reach a certain point.

    In any case, we can agree battles should use up SOME amount of in-game time. I just think 15 is more reasonable amount, as it doesn't punish you too much for not being able to avoid a battle. Especially if your Digimon needs to use the bathroom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muur View Post
    All cameras should be movable in all games of every genre of any game regardless of series.
    I think this objectively is an overly simplistic statement, but I still take that you prefer pose-able over fixed. I disagree, since I think set angles can add to mood and character, but fair enough if they're not your bag.

    Side note: I think something Next 0rder didn't do very well was zone transitions. DW did it best, as it was still-photos of a cohesive world. You could see the point where dry desert bleeds into snowy tundra. You could see land-marks and locations off into the distance. Re-Digitize does it well too. When you cross into a new area, you can see indicators of it into the distance.

    In Next 0rder, the transions were so sharp, it was almost like you were being teleported to a different location. And I wasn't a fan of the digital fence that you had to press X to activate. There should be more natural visual cues that you are approaching the edge of a new area, and you should just activate it by walking through it, with your character continuing to walk as the transition is made, like in DW, or Snake Eater as a comparison.

    Side Side Note: Maybe the Zone music shouldn't reset between each screen either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muur View Post
    Keep maps.
    The maps are actually reasonably out of the way in Next 0rder, so I somewhat retract this idea, since it is easy to choose not to look at them. I still think perhaps broader maps should be unlocked like in Regitize, and I would appreciate the option to turn the mini-map off. The start menu should still have the cartoon map that lights up when you discover a location. That's the sweet spot for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Muur View Post
    If its floatia, why did the 200 digimon takuto/shiki recruit leave?
    As I stated in the post, the island is attacked during it's voyage to a new continent, and for most of the game you're cut off from it as it's be grounded off-shore. You have to start from scratch with only a few allies making it inland with you (and a few others that are lost out in the world).

    Quote Originally Posted by Muur View Post
    Also, no recolours. not even as enemy exclusive. if the model is in the game, it should be playable. I hate NPC only digimon. so if I did see a NPC mon and its not playable, I'd be pissed off. not as much as if its orange growlmon, but digimon world had stuff like gotsumon or yanmamon NPC only, and redigitze seemed to have loads NPC only. kudamon for example off the top of my head. if they make a model, it has to be playable, that would be my rule.
    I disagree with the recolour stance, as I think it's a good visual cue between who's just a random, and who's a City Recruit. And it's cool seeing the varied looks of the Digimon zone to zone (like Zebramon or Ice variants in Freezeland).

    You have actually reminded me, that one City Facility could be Digimon make-overs, where you could actually apply alternate skins you your Digimon. Maybe even have stat alterations or altering evolution paths too, but mostly for the fun of customising your Digimon's appearance, without padding the evolution tree out with recolours.

    While I'm not as bothered by unplayable NPCs, like the Tentomon is DW, I can agree that if they're built into the game, you might as well have them playable.
    Last edited by McGann; 02-11-2019 at 03:10 AM.
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  4. #4
    Super Moderator Theigno's Avatar
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    I love the concept of exploring the digital world with a partner in a real time system. I really like the concept of interacting with Digimon settlements, exploring a (somewhat) open world step by step, and training your partner.
    Too bad the rest of Digimon World IMHO consists of a heap of poorly implemented, mindbogglingly irritating obstructions barely deserving to be called game mechanics that would have to be drastically altered in order to even approach being a truly enjoyable experience.

    First thing first....
    The battle system needs to die in a fire and start over from scratch
    It doesn't take much to figure out that having fights consist of merely watching two not especially bright AIs whale vaguely in each other's direction while you yell orders that might or might not do anything is the most boring, annoying, non-interactive, restrictive and not to mention least skill based battle system you could imagine.
    No matter what else the game does, this "system" belongs in the deepest bowels in the trash heap and I believe that only a stodgy sense of "but it has always been that way" has stopped the developers from taking it out, altogether ignoring that "being how it was" does not make it a good mechanic or even a good idea in any way.
    Solution: You explore as the Tamer, and in battle control changes directly to the Digimon. There you go. If you have multiple partners you could strategically switch between them. If you really want to involve the tamer you could include systems like your Digimon having to be in close proximity to the tamer in order to receive support items from him. At the same time especially intelligent opponents could try to attack the tamer directly (and being a puny human he will be killed in one or two hits) so you are also incentivized to keep the battle away from him. There we have it, tamer involvement and strategy but actually skill based and not just pure annoyance.
    Maybe if you have been an especially terrible tamer the old battle system could return as debuff applied to especially unruly Digimon that want to fight on their own. It's enough of a bother to work perfectly as negative reinforcement.


    Multiple Partners
    Especially once the more finicky systems like pooping are excised from the game having multiple partners should be easily manageable. Of course there needs to be depth to the combat system when multiple partners are involved. The AI that controls the second digimon while you control the first should have different modes. One Digimon could pin the enemy down while the other goes in for the kill. One partner could be a distraction and draw enemy fire you sneak up from behind for a critical hit. Would that make having two Digimon very powerful and borderline broken? Absolutely. And realistically that is exactly how it should be. For this reason having multiple partners could be a reward later in the game. The system could also be further balanced by enabling friendly fire; If your partners can kill each other if they are not careful you actually have to rethink your strategy when using multiple Digimon and simple overpowering aggression would have severe drawbacks.

    Evolution and Hints
    Evolutions needs to make sense in the context of the gameplay. Stat requirements should not be purely arbitrary and your chief method of figuring out evolutions shouldn't be trial and error or otherwise based mostly on chance. Note that having a fully visible evolution tree does not completely solve this problem; It merely points towards the arbitrary data from outside the gameplay and that's not very interactive. Instead the requirements for evolutions should be discovered organically during gameplay. How? Well, there are plenty of Digimon running around in the world. Logic dictates they all evolved somehow. If you want to figure out how to evolve your Digimon into species X find Digimon of that species X and just ask them.
    The quest to find out hints for evolutions should be a major part of the game, next to rebuilding a settlement. Digimon you recruited might be more predisposed to giving hints. Maybe some don't want to tell you but might drop some hints anyway in conversation without meaning to.
    Wild Digimon could have dialogue after being defeated that could contain valuable information about their species. If you don't know enough yet fight some more and get more hints; it would be somewhat like grinding but instead of getting stats you use your brain.
    This could be another chance to make the combat more nuanced in a way: If you defeat a Digimon with a monster or an attack that is just too strong, the enemy will simply die. That could be okay for some quests or maybe more efficient for farming items but you can't get information out of a corpse (or a disintegrated data in this context). Instead it would make sense to attack enemies with measured force, get their HP just low enough and then have mercy on them and have them talk. It would be a mechanic based on character... different Digimon would have different points at which they are ready to surrender but stop attacking to soon and they might still be rebellious, however beaten within an inch of their lives they will tell you anything you want but achieving that without killing them would be challenging.
    Sounds cruel? Sure, but remember beating up a Digimon until it does what you want is something that you have always done, in pretty much any Digimon Game, you just didn't have control, which made it possible for the game to hide the nature of your deed. But now if there is a mechanic that would provide you that control, lets you make those decision, suddenly you feel responsible for what you do. This level of choice is how a game can get under your skin, actually make a point.

    Poop
    The poop system is annoying and nonsensical. Once a Digimon has reached the adult level and is, well,... and adult there is no reason for it to shit itself like a baby. It's a bizarre immersion killing convention that goes against the very concept of Digimon being intelligent beings.
    So after the child level there is no place for poop management. If you want to keep something similar maybe have your Digimon excuse itself every now and then to do its business in private, leaving the tamer to explore on his own for a bit while having to be very stealthy and careful not to alert any enemy Digimon since without his partner he's dead in one shot.

    Saving
    Universal saving and no restriction on save files.
    I mean sheesh, we're not in the eighties anymore any game not offering unrestricted saving should be rightfully humiliated. The main reason games ever got away with this was either because of limitations of early hardware or because they originated as greedy arcade games that wanted you to insert another quarter after you died to suck your wallet dry. A modern game is neither of those things so just go with the times already. if players feel like being hardcore they can just not use the saves.
    There might be a point to be made for fixed checkpoints in games in which getting from checkpoint a to checkpoint b is a matter of player skill. But (at least so far) Digimon World couldn't be further from that. If the evolution is trial and error and a good deal of battles happen at the mercy of AIs that you can't directly control, skill is only involved very marginally.
    In other words, in a game where you can be dicked over by circumstances the game doesn't let you control and random chance... it should at least have the common decency to let you re-roll the dice whenever you want.

    The Camera
    The camera can be free or fixed, both can work fine, though fixed angles come with additional challenges. If used well they can give a great cinematic vibe but if handled badly they can be an incredible inconvenience (and let's exclude pre-rendered unmoving backgrounds in general as there are limits to how prehistoric a game should be). But even the best fixed camera will have blind spots. That is something a player can sidestep if he finds one but that also means that a fixed camera only works if you are completely in control of your character(s) since otherwise you could not compensate for potential issues of the camera not pointing where it should.
    In other words it would not work at all with the terrible AI battle system where you don't have control over your Digimon's movement. Just another reason why it's terrible.

    Maps
    Have a map, at least for areas you already explored. It's just common sense. There exist people who are bad enough at navigation that they can get lost and have all the "fun" of map-less navigation even without a map anyway so taking that away would just be an incredible dick move.
    If you want to be annoying about the map, have the tamer draw the map himself and starting out with no drawing ability so he'll just draw barely usable blobs. As the game goes on he could take drawing classes and the maps get better and better.
    Or you could just have a honest to god normal map with an option to toggle it on and off in the menu for people who think they are too good for maps instead of just cutting out standard game utilities.

    Death and Balance
    Approach A:
    The entire idea of having a partner you are supposed to connect with is just completely demolished if your partner regularly dies and is reborn as something completely different. Just like with Evolution the tamer should have more control over these matters, so as far as I'm concerned the lifespan mechanic should go out the window.
    Instead, re-evolving should be based on strategically de-evolving your Digimon (but the story games can keep their annoying stat capping system bound to de-evolving; It's an unnecessary pointless grind even in those games and shouldn't be copied anywhere) and then training it into something else instead of having to start over completely. In order to have more incentives to use that feature there should be a heavier focus on quests that can only be done by certain Digimon species or families. Having a second partner would make sure that doing this would not be too much of a sacrifice; imagine a set-up where one partner is trained up to be your high level killing machine that staying at the same level while the other is re-evolved into the right species for non-battle quests (but of course those strategies would be up to the player).

    Approach B:
    If we say that finite lifespan is a must, I am of the opinion that the game should actually truly commit to that theme instead of using the annoying and half-assed "only your partner dies" approach.
    If you have to halt your progress because your Digimon died, why should the rest of the world be exempt from that problem? If you don't feel like fighting an enemy you should by all rights have the option to just wait it out until said enemy keels over from old age. It's not fun if the computer has unfair advantages. All NPCs should have their own life cycles and bite the dust as regularly as your partner does. To compensate, maybe have multiple settlements to populate. Try being aware of the life cycle of NPCs when recruiting them to make sure that NPCs providing vital services don't all die at the same time. Actually use death in a way that is consistent.

    And since a partner who regularly dies carries the emotional weight of a fleeting dust particle, let's take advantage of that and restructure the partner system around Partners being as temporary and disposable as they always seemed anyway; It could be very possible and perhaps and common that your Digimon is defeated and just dies permanently, leaving you on your own (in vulnerable-human-stealth-mode™) until you find a new partner. Perhaps you could venture to the village of beginnings to reclaim the egg of your previous Digimon... or you could just have a different Monster you meet join you as your new partner. As you get more experienced, your tamer abilities could garner you fame, making Digimon more willing to be recruited as your new partner. Eventually you could partner up with some Adult and Perfects directly without having to bother with evolving them from scratch. Of course... if the Digimon you recruit end up getting killed particularly fast other Digimon in the area might refuse to help you. But you can always wait until that particular generation of Digimon dies and then ensnare their successors.

    That's my list of changes... there migth not be much left of DW1 or N0 but this is still Digimon World; Remember the golden age when the Digimon World titles actually tried different things, tried being not formulaic? That's what they should get back to doing and shaking up everything that makes "normal" DW1 style games such a giant pain in the ass seems to be a nice enough start for that.
    Last edited by Theigno; 02-11-2019 at 11:38 AM.

  5. #5
    Completely digital McGann's Avatar
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    Dang. Harsh words.

    Just to address some criticisms:

    - I don't think restricting saving is an inherently bad thing. There would be a healthy amount of terminals around. The idea was to prevent save scumming to the extent that you could brute force training mini games, tricky enemy navigation, or other sticky spots. They'd be frequent enough that you could start over if you really wanted too without too much sunk cost, but not so much that you can just keep refreshing at any spot in the game.

    - I take the point on the maps. They should be an option to those that want them, as long as they're not too in your face. This was partly connected to the fixed camera angle thing, as I think that was a big part of what made exploring DW so memorable and fun, and I saw maps as a detraction to that. But yeah, I agree outright removing them was a bad idea.

    - Though I never put this down, I was imagining a swap to Ne0 style battles with a sectioned off top down arena once fighting was initiated. However fixed camera angles never caused problems during the AI battles in DW. As long as the game is designed around them, I don't see why it's easy to assume they would be faulty. (And as a side note, I wouldn't mind a game that had pre-rendered pictures of a 3D background. I wasn't suggesting the use of them in my pitch, but it's a perfectly legit aesthetic. Plenty of games mix 3D and 2D elements to create different visual looks. Digimon Survive is even 3D backgrounds with 2D characters.)

    - I mean, it's never stated out-right, but I always took it that your Digimon operated on different rules because they were Artos like in Digimon Next, and they were essentially running on an over-clocked metabolism. Though your pondering on the nature of Digimon World's mechanics sound like they would make a funny deconstructionist Light Novel.

    - I do greatly appreciate that Digimon World titles always tried something new. That said, it's only in recent years the name has been associated specifically with DW1 style gameplay, and there are still other Digimon games coming out. It's just a semantics thing. No need to lament the loss of varied Digimon games when we have Survive on the way.

    /Over defensiveness

    That said, I'd love to play a game like you're describing. Your battle based around support risk and protection of your tamer sounds very cool.

    I'm not sure how serious you were about a tense stealth section where your partner has to answer the call of nature, but it's just bizarre enough to work. The actual idea of retrieving eggs from primary village is a great concept. You could even add a mechanic where you can try to nab more eggs for more partners at some greater risk of staying there too long.

    As an addition to your Death A suggestion, perhaps you can save later forms, and you de-digivolve to attain different forms/attacks that have better applications in other situations. Like DW3 where you have a cache of unlocked evolutions, or Cyber Sleuth where you have to got back and forth for different techniques.

    I would ask though, controlling your monster. How would this work? I mean if we're to apply a reasonable degree of realism to what could be developed for a game, how complex would the fighting system be? Like one melee attack, one or two signature attacks, then the rest is almost like casting spells with the misc power up animation? And how big would the available roster of Digimon be?
    Last edited by McGann; 02-11-2019 at 02:26 PM.
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    changing the battle system? eh, that makes a Digimon World not a Digimon World anymore, sorry but it's silly to change into full action RPG. I kinda prefer the World 1 style but with some re:digitize elements. Honestly the Next 0rder battle system kinda suck.

    I agree about the Tamer level being kept, but battle should be real time, not something pretending to be real time like Next 0rder, having actual hit boxes and not something invisible (like Ne0's hissatsu waza scenes).

    I also don't agree with the multiple partner system, honestly it's very troublesome from the very first.

    I don't agree about a degenerate system in a digimon world game, that makes the value much less. I prefer to stay v-pet-ish
    Last edited by DATS24; 02-12-2019 at 08:30 AM.

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    Completely digital McGann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DATS24 View Post
    I don't agree about a degenerate system in a digimon world game, that makes the value much less. I prefer to stay v-pet-ish
    Neither do I, but Theigno's concept is a radical departure. In that context I'd be cool with it.

    Taking my buddy EXE element into account, I actually think I would cap your partners level at Perfect too. Partly because I think 8 stages is just slightly too many for the life cycle system, but also, if you can buddy up and fuse with multiple comrades, there's a much broader pool of results in Megas than there is in Ultras.
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    ok, here's my thought about ideal Digimon World system...

    first, I really think the base system of the original DW1 has been good enough, in which it gives you so much rewards yet so punishing if you did harsh mistakes. But I know DW1 has its fatal flaw that it didn't succeed to create good first impression playing the game, since the battle commands are really 99% automatic AI-controlled except the run command. Also it didn't succeed enough to create achievable evolution from your current digimon since you didn't have clue at all, though I really liked the surprise effect whenever your digimon started to evolve, it gave you a sense of worrying or exciting of how it would become, no heroic music at all, just pure natural evolution scene.

    my solution to overcome those flaws are:
    evolution system:
    1. make a special NPC as your guide to evolution, don't give literal evo route of xxx digimon, just give player a recommendation of the current digimon of what stat it should train. This doesn't decrease the surprise effect of evolving, but it gave you better clues about what you should train, without giving you what digimon it will become, so it will still be a mystery until you finally reached the req. The recommendation should be said not by exact numbers but words like "train your strength moderately", or "you should give more food to your digimon", etc. This will still make player curious but well directed, though player still can have misperception about the words given. Once the evolution unlocked, they gave you the written req to reach that digimon, so that's the reward of succeeding the evolution.

    2. The purpose of the battle system is to make players from "depending much on your digimon's sense of fight with not much control (this will affect digimon's aggressiveness or reluctance so your commands might not be obeyed even though you can give direct command)" to "easily give various strategic command that your digimon can directly obey without being affected against battlefield circumstances (like aggressiveness or reluctance)". I honestly don't know where to start first, but definitely the "your call" or in japanese "まかせた" only command in the first play wasn't effective. And 0rder points were too directly commanded. I prefer that in the firstplay the commands are too general like "attack" or "defense" or "evade". Then the development process of this command is to upgrade them, some can be branching like "attack" can be upgraded into "attack from far" or "attack from point blank" and can be upgraded further more. So in the end you CAN customize your own command in battlefield, this is why as I said above, Tamer level was important, since this is how well Tamer gets used into battle.

    The digimon side, on the other hand, I'd like that the brain status can increase the battle intelligence, like your digimon won't be much affected by torments or being coward from some continuous attacks, or your digimon can automatically avoid attacks without being commanded, so if you as a player can't read the situation with faster reflect, the digimon can do this. But again, this really depends on digimon's speed, they can be smart, they can notice an attack coming to it and respond by avoiding, but speed can determine how fast the battle instinct, despite only the movements. I'd like also that the higher the brain status of a digimon, the more the digimon can receive command, like you can give chain commands like 3 in a row, like attack from point blank, then take a small distance, then attack again with a long ranged move.

    I notice that the EXE system is like a deus ex machina nuance that gave you a reward of a deep bond with your digimon. I can include that part but I'd like it to be more like DW3 where there's a parameter for that, to show how intense a battle is. You can gain this "blast" bar by receiving more attacks as disadvantage like having your attack being cancelled, and receiving a critical attack from enemy, or getting attacked by mob enemies continuously like twice or triple in a row. If the bar became maximum, then you can be somehow "revived" when being KO-ed in battle, but it's not something exact, since it depends on how deep your bond with your digimon, the deeper it is, the more chance of this "blast mode" can occur. When occurs, your digimon should get double of the status, and you can directly order it to do signature attack.

    About the evolution, oh yeah I forgot that I'd like to keep the digimemory as it's very useful to help your "reborn" digimon if facing stronger enemies which is hard to kill. Quite a deus ex machina effect but more helping. So the dead one will still be useful, since Next 0rder completely forgot the dead one.

    So, how do you think about that?

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    On your Digivolving:

    To an extent, Digimon did give you hints about evolution in DW, and the higher your prosperity, the better the advice. That's something that could be expanded upon and paced better; getting more specific advice as you populate the city.

    However, I'm not sure giving vague suggestions is such a great idea. When I first got World, the book said to get Meramon, you needed low weight and high offence. But I had no idea what constituted either of those things. For Greymon it said, "has a routine life-style", which I understand now probably meant, "equal stat distribution and well cared for", but I didn't know that at the time.

    Re: Digitize did something similar too. When you achieved an evolution, it would say, high this, moderate that. I actually think your "once you achieve the evolution, the stats are revealed" is a better solution. There tends to be a continuity to stat requirements around earlier levels (focused stats for Baby>Rookie, 100 points in one or two stats for Rookie>Champion), while Ultimates and certain Champions require something more complex.

    So giving you the stats once you've attained them not only gives you a solid goal to work towards for the next life cycle if you're so inclined, but also helps you build up an understanding of what you should be aiming for when trying to attain other Digimon.

    On Battle:

    I like some of the complexities you added onto the base system, like the different types of attacks. A DW3 Blast system could be cool, though I'm not sure having it build from taking damage would be as great in this context. It can be one way but not the main one. How about adding to the Support Cheer system. Adding different phrases that are effective in different situations (that are maybe unlocked by interacting with Digimon around the world), and you build up something similar to Order Points.

    Except now they function more like a form of bardic inspiration. You build up enough, and you can utilise commands imbued with different stat buffs or useful effects. Maybe a well timed cheer can turn a regular attack into a critical hit, or a regular block into a piece of revived health. And yes, even Burst Evolutions or EXE.

    On Max Levels:

    What do you think of limiting permanent level to Ultimate? I think it's a good idea, as it invalidates less forms, and allows for more varied EXE forms (or Burst Forms) in the collection of Megas. I suspect somehow it wouldn't be a popular design choice.
    Last edited by McGann; 02-13-2019 at 09:11 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by McGann View Post

    To an extent, Digimon did give you hints about evolution in DW, and the higher your prosperity, the better the advice. That's something that could be expanded upon and paced better; getting more specific advice as you populate the city.

    However, I'm not sure giving vague suggestions is such a great idea. When I first got World, the book said to get Meramon, you needed low weight and high offence. But I had no idea what constituted either of those things. For Greymon it said, "has a routine life-style", which I understand now probably meant, "equal stat distribution and well cared for", but I didn't know that at the time.
    tbh I didn't really see the evolution hints in DW in the first play, sure they had it later, but never really in the first play or probably I missed it?

    the problem is that such evo guides in DW were on a guide book, not in game itself.

    Re: Digitize did something similar too. When you achieved an evolution, it would say, high this, moderate that. I actually think your "once you achieve the evolution, the stats are revealed" is a better solution. There tends to be a continuity to stat requirements around earlier levels (focused stats for Baby>Rookie, 100 points in one or two stats for Rookie>Champion), while Ultimates and certain Champions require something more complex.

    So giving you the stats once you've attained them not only gives you a solid goal to work towards for the next life cycle if you're so inclined, but also helps you build up an understanding of what you should be aiming for when trying to attain other Digimon.
    as far as I played re:digi I never noticed something like that, or probably I was missing it again.

    I was also thinking that this NPC only helps you to reach a locked evolution route (except some special circumstances for example like DW1's Kunemon). So once you have the same digimon again at its later gen, this NPC can recommend you to attain another digimon until all its evo unlocked.

    oh yeah, I also miss slide evolution, it still feel somewhat quirky in the original game that a digimon can transform into another same stage digimon when something occurs, like how Angemon can slide evo into Devimon, I would like these special circumstances evo/slide evo to come back, so it will increase the surprise effect more, without being told (probably a hint from certain NPC can help).

    On Battle:

    I like some of the complexities you added onto the base system, like the different types of attacks. A DW3 Blast system could be cool, though I'm not sure having it build from taking damage would be as great in this context. It can be one way but not the main one.
    I think that this blast gauge can work as a compensation of such disadvantages you received during battles, like big damage, critical attacks, or being beaten by mobs. Sure you probably can add an in-battle support item to fill that gauge but probably later on since it would be quite cheating on first play, even though successful revival still depending on your bond with your digimon.

    How about adding to the Support Cheer system. Adding different phrases that are effective in different situations (that are maybe unlocked by interacting with Digimon around the world), and you build up something similar to Order Points.
    Except now they function more like a form of bardic inspiration. You build up enough, and you can utilise commands imbued with different stat buffs or useful effects. Maybe a well timed cheer can turn a regular attack into a critical hit, or a regular block into a piece of revived health. And yes, even Burst Evolutions or EXE.
    hmmm honestly I don't really get it, but I think you can rather make this an automatic results in battlefield without needing such system. With this kind of system, I don't think such cheer command will be needed anymore. I prefer to call it "successful command", so everytime your digimon obey by saying "OK" without being cancelled by enemies, it can get some conditional hidden buffs that can overcome some disadvantages it got and it can give you bonus stat raising after battle.

    On Max Levels:

    What do you think of limiting permanent level to Ultimate? I think it's a good idea, as it invalidates less forms, and allows for more varied EXE forms (or Burst Forms) in the collection of Megas. I suspect somehow it wouldn't be a popular design choice.
    since this is not 1999 anymore, nope, it would be a bummer. Sure, I understand your intention and reasoning, but it just doesn't feel right, especially in nowadays that the number of Ultimate (Mega) level digimon are more plenty rather than adult or perfect level. I really think this EXE evolution aren't needed anymore, you can rather change it with digimemory. I mean, if your blast gauge was successful, you can choose whether you can keep the digimon in the base form or inserting a digimemory so it can evolve into that digimon, but you can't get the double stat buffs.

    Oh yeah, I think we can use the digimemory feature to limit the evolutionary routes, so there will be some playable digimon obtainable only via digimemory, you can't evolve normally into those digimon. These digimemory exclusive digimon you can obtain by getting rewards, or special drop from bosses. You can only use digimemory once a day, whether it functions as a substitute of signature attack or evolving from being KO-ed. These digimemory only consist adult+ level digimon, so no child or below level at all, probably same like re:digi. The only disadvantage from these digimemory exclusive digimon is that you can't customize their regular attacks.

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