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Thread: Zero Two Plot Holes

  1. #81
    I'm a Maniac jetman91's Avatar
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    Here are some more plot holes:

    How did Ken become the Digimon Kaiser/Emperor virtually unopposed by any other dark forces?

    How did Ken obtain the crest of kindness? It seems to just happen to be there. He didn't have to hunt for it like the original 8.

    How did the DigiMentals originate? Do the predate the crests, or are they a byproduct of the crests powers being released back into the digital world?

    Why do the three newly introduced digimon appear hibernating under three of the DigiMentals in their rookie form? What greater purpose did they serve prior to the events in 02 to make them noble for such a quest?

  2. #82
    Super Moderator Theigno's Avatar
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    None of those are really plot holes, as they are either explained in the show or have very simple explanations if you actually think about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jetman91 View Post
    How did Ken become the Digimon Kaiser/Emperor virtually unopposed by any other dark forces?
    Not really a plot hole, and even if it was you could ask the very same thing about any of the other pre Dark Masters adventure villains.
    It's also not like evil forces would have much of an incentive to stop him. They are evil after all, they won't morally object to anything he does and considering he struggled with anything beyond the power of adult Digimon he wouldn't be much of a military force to be reckoned with.
    And of course... the world was pretty freshly regenerated and Apocalymon is gone, so there are simply not that many sources of darkness left.

    Quote Originally Posted by jetman91 View Post
    How did Ken obtain the crest of kindness? It seems to just happen to be there. He didn't have to hunt for it like the original 8.
    No one ever needed to really hunt for Crests, they were all "just there". If Mimi can find hers growing in a convenient random giant cactus in the desert, why shouldn't Ken be able to get his easily?

    Quote Originally Posted by jetman91 View Post
    How did the DigiMentals originate? Do the predate the crests, or are they a byproduct of the crests powers being released back into the digital world?
    Since the Armor Evolution is described as an ancient form of evolution it wouldn't make sense for the Digimentals to be something super recent. I would argue that they could be predating the crests, since even as the specific crests were made for the Chosen, the fundamental forces of the virtues that the crests were based on could have been used for the purpose of evolution before that.
    As for the specific Digimentals in the show, if Tag Tamers is anything to go by they broke at some point and their pieces were scattered across random dungeons in the Digital World, where they were found by Ryo and Ken who put them back together (Of course under Vamdemon's influence Ken forgot all of that).

    Quote Originally Posted by jetman91 View Post
    Why do the three newly introduced digimon appear hibernating under three of the DigiMentals in their rookie form? What greater purpose did they serve prior to the events in 02 to make them noble for such a quest?
    As explained by Qinglongmon, the Holy Beasts put them there and their main (and only) qualification for being chosen, was being Digimon of certain ancient species that could actually use Armor evolution, which modern Digimon presumably can't, which is why the older Chosen can't use them (Patamon and Tailmon where basically retconned to be ancient species as well, for the sake of convenience.)

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetman91 View Post
    Here are some more plot holes:

    How did Ken become the Digimon Kaiser/Emperor virtually unopposed by any other dark forces?
    The only opposing dark force we know of in 02 was Daemon (who was probably biding his time) and Dagomon (who seemed to stay in his domain and might of fed off Kenís actions seeing as how his ocean gave Ken the dark digivice)

    How did Ken obtain the crest of kindness? It seems to just happen to be there. He didn't have to hunt for it like the original 8.
    Homeostasis gave it to him.


    How did the DigiMentals originate? Do the predate the crests, or are they a byproduct of the crests powers being released back into the digital world?
    I think the plot hole here is theyíre a method of ancient evolution (the showís explanation for why new kids were needed and why Takeru and Hikari were redrafted) but theyíre based off crest that were specifically created for the 1999 digidestined in 1995

    Why do the three newly introduced digimon appear hibernating under three of the DigiMentals in their rookie form? What greater purpose did they serve prior to the events in 02 to make them noble for such a quest?
    They were created for the new kids and they had the power to armor evolve. Not a plot hole the show explains this.

  4. #84
    I'm a Maniac jetman91's Avatar
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    Just because a weak explanation exists in the show doesn't make something not a plot hole. It just makes it a vague excuse that the writers use in hopes that viewers suspend their disbelief enough to not question it.

  5. #85
    Completely digital Xadhoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetman91 View Post
    Just because a weak explanation exists in the show doesn't make something not a plot hole. It just makes it a vague excuse that the writers use in hopes that viewers suspend their disbelief enough to not question it.
    It does by definition. "A gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot".

  6. #86
    Super Moderator TMS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontStopPataPata View Post
    I think the plot hole here is theyíre a method of ancient evolution (the showís explanation for why new kids were needed and why Takeru and Hikari were redrafted) but theyíre based off crest that were specifically created for the 1999 digidestined in 1995
    Even if the Crests weren't in existence before 1995, four years in the human world would have been thousands of years in the Digital World, which is plenty of time for Digimentals to become considered ancient.
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  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theigno View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VanChizzle View Post
    - Also, why is Chocomon reborn on the spot when it's been established that Digimon die permanently in the Human World?
    I mean itís kind of a dick move for claiming something to be a continuity error, when back then that didnít contradict anything, as the lack of rebirth in the human world was only officially established in tri.
    I'd always been under the impression that it was just something they had established long before tri. But fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theigno View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VanChizzle View Post
    Why were the Chosen suddenly able to use each other's Digimentals to evolve when they had not gone through the same process of self-realization that they previously went through early on in the series in order to activate their assigned Digimentals? For instance, when did Daisuke learn the true meaning of Hope so that Veemon could evolve to Sagittarimon?
    While the Drama itself has much more extreme reasons for being discounted (Daisuke literally evolves into the Digimon Kaiser for one), I donít think them using each otherís Digimentals is a problem at all. After all they only needed those virtues to move and store the eggs initially, but after being activated and stored in the D-terminal they could have been completely usable by anyone. Sure, they didnít do that in the anime, but we also didnít see anyone try and fail to do it, so thereís no really any evidence to the contrary either.
    If memory serves, they were able to discover and collect the Digimentals at first - then presumably storing them inside their D-Terminals - but needed to actually understand what the relevant Crest meant before they could activate its power and Armour Evolve. For instance Daisuke found the Digimental of Friendship, but could not actually use it until he had his moment of clarity later on in the episode.

    This seems especially pertinent when you consider that only the person it was meant for could actually collect the Digimental (like in Episode 1). Taichi couldn't pick up the Digimental of Courage, despite having gone through everything he did in Adventure. So the idea of the Digimentals being "meant" for specific Chosen Children feels somewhat cheapened, when in the CD drama any random Chosen could just use any old D-Terminal and evolve with whatever Digimental happened to be in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theigno View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenrys View Post
    for the kokomon being reborn stuff, as far as i know that only happened in the dub, in the original version he's dead
    I donít know how the dub handled it, but in the original we see a Digimon egg, which people assume to be Chocomonís and from that they assume that he was reborn.
    We donít see that it is Chocomon, we donít even see if itís in the human world at all. And we donít see it hatch. For all we know it never ended up hatching. Or maybe it hatched into something else. Thereís no way to tell. But people wanted it to mean Chocomons 100% successful rebirth so desperately that they claim it to be canon despite there not being proof.
    Thereís no retcon in clarifying that something people merely wanted to happen didnít happen.
    I mean, the implication of a lone Digi-Egg appearing right there on the spot in front of Wallace immediately after Chocomon's death, as the only Digimon who's shown dying on-screen in their immediate vicinity - combined with that ending visual of Wallace reunited with his 2 Partners - seems pretty clear to me, even if we don't actually see it hatching for ourselves. Sure, it could've just been some random Digi-Egg just floating along waiting to be found... but what significance would it have to the plot by putting that in there?

    Like I realize that part of what we might or might not see as a plot hole depends on what source material you consider to be canon in the first place. If I count Movie 3 but not Natsu e no Tobira, then of course everything's fine and dandy. But as someone who takes all the movies and the CD dramas to be part of the canon... yeah there'll be issues with the inconsistencies that popped up. And I get that inconsistencies are generally going to occur in any large media franchise. Doesn't mean they don't exist - I guess it's just part of the fandom to be bringing these up.

    Quote Originally Posted by DontStopPataPata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by VanChizzle View Post
    Whether it's canon or not is sort of subjective I feel... I mean, it's not like any of the creators have ever come out and said it wasn't, plus the fact that they referred to one of the characters again (Wallace) in a CD drama later feels that it wasn't meant to be just a one-time bizarro world happening.
    The creators donít need to come out and say its non-canon.
    It's always been my understanding that movies, CD dramas, OVA's and other forms of media outside of the regular anime series are generally left open to interpretation by the audience as to how canonical they are. As in, the creators aren't going to come out and definitively say one way or the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by DontStopPataPata View Post
    1. Wallace simply doesnít exist in the tv series. Heís in one audio drama but those tend to be just for fun or not too concerned about continuity. All that means is that audio drama takes place in whatever timeline movie 3 takes place in. There is no mention of Wallace (outside the dub which tries so hard to fit in with the main timeline) even when Daisuke travels to his home state of New York in the Christmas World Tour campaign.

    2. Assuming this movie takes place around its release date (between episode 14 and 15) then Daisuke and company should know what the golden digimental is in episode 20. If it takes place between episode 21 and 22 then Daisuke should know what the golden digimental is in the movie (he says ďthese are ours?Ē But we are to assume, if movie 3 is canon and between episode 21 and 22 heís just recently used it). Both times are treated as the first time. At any rate Quinlongmon in his exposition dump episode only bothers to explain the one in the series and never thinks to explain this holy phenomenon.

    3. Angemon and Angewomon know they can evolve to Ultimate. And no Cherubimonís lonely heart warping reality and causing time to go back would not make them stronger. That has always been a terrible fanwank of the highest order.
    Quote Originally Posted by DontStopPataPata View Post
    What gets me is just that there was really no plausible explanation for how they were able to evolve to Seraphimon and Holydramon out of the blue

    The explanation of course is that the movie wasnít beholden to what the tv series did. The movie was its own independent side story roughly based on what was going on in the show at the time (kids on summer vacation, new kids can only armor evolve, Takeru and Hikari had access to their Digimon evolutions outside dark tower area) Angemon and Angewomon could probably evolve to Ultimate in the movie because at the time nothing said they couldnít, the series was focused on armor evolutions at the time.


    Movie 3 has its own plot holes (the writers seem to have no clue how far Colorado is from New York, Wallace keeps calling Terriermon the wrong name, this American kid keeps speaking Japanese to his American mother) but anything it contradicts or the series later contradicts is just a byproduct of the movie being made as an independent standalone story that wasnít bogged by what the show was doing or would do.
    You're right, the movie definitely doesn't follow whatever evolution guidelines have been laid out in the series nor does Daisuke's reaction to the Digimental of Miracles make sense. I could buy that Movie 3 is in its own timeline completely separate from the series. In fact, that way it might even be easier to explain away all the issues people have with it.

    The thing is however there are even plot holes within this timeline between a mere 2 pieces of media because the CD drama still manages to contradict the movie. Even if you don't consider the inconsistencies it has with the anime. So, at this point...

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanChizzle View Post
    I'd always been under the impression that it was just something they had established long before tri. But fair enough.

    I mean, it was generally understood long before Tri by the fandom that Digimon who die in the real world donít come back as digimon eggs/go to the dark world. Some fans wanted to be stubborn on the basis that ďWizardmon and Vamdemon arenít normal Digimon so they donít countĒ but all Tri did was held those fans hands and say ďYes, Digimon who die in the real world have nowhere to goĒ

    If you want to give Movie 3 any leeway it debuted before the episode with Wizardmonís ghost.

    But yeah Tri didnít establish anything new.



    Taichi couldn't pick up the Digimental of Courage, despite having gone through everything he did in Adventure. So the idea of the Digimentals being "meant" for specific Chosen Children feels somewhat cheapened, when in the CD drama any random Chosen could just use any old D-Terminal and evolve with whatever Digimental happened to be in it.

    I took it to mean the first 5 Digimentals would only be picked up by the kids they were intended for. Taichi has the crest of courage but the digimental of courage wasnít meant for him.

    Daisuke, Miyako, and Iori actually had to display Friendship, Purity, and Sincerity to get those additional digimentals.

    The Drama CD seemed to be Toei going ďHey Bandai did design evolutions for each partner Digimon with each Digimental might as well have fun with itĒ

    I mean, the implication of a lone Digi-Egg appearing right there on the spot in front of Wallace immediately after Chocomon's death, as the only Digimon who's shown dying on-screen in their immediate vicinity - combined with that ending visual of Wallace reunited with his 2 Partners - seems pretty clear to me, even if we don't actually see it hatching for ourselves. Sure, it could've just been some random Digi-Egg just floating along waiting to be found... but what significance would it have to the plot by putting that in there?
    The Digi-egg was clearly in the river by Wallace (no clue why weíre pretending it might have been in the Digital World) and Lopmon appeared in the end credits. The intent that Chocomon came back was obvious. Itís being stubborn to pretend there was some sort of ambiguity.





    It's always been my understanding that movies, CD dramas, OVA's and other forms of media outside of the regular anime series are generally left open to interpretation by the audience as to how canonical they are. As in, the creators aren't going to come out and definitively say one way or the other.
    As far as I can understand itís not something they ever really cared about. Itís just ďHey this is a movie that had a story not tied to the current storyline making it mostly accessible hereís the golden digimentals that Bandai wants advertisedĒ

    Heck the Wonderswan games donít actually make any sense but we know the general gist of the events (Ryo and Ken go to the Digital World to stop Millenniummon and Ken takes a dark seed to the neck) did happen.

    But movie 3? Toei seems to go out of their way to make sure nobody thinks it happened. The series does its own version of the golden digimental(s) a few weeks later and no Wallace in New York or any acknowledgement he exist.


    Even if you don't consider the inconsistencies it has with the anime. So, at this point...
    I can agree that at the very least the cd drama retcons movie 3ís happy ending.
    Last edited by DontStopPataPata; 12-12-2019 at 06:34 AM.

  9. #89
    I'm a Maniac Chisana Minamoto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMS View Post
    @Chisana
    Yeah, basically. People making up explanations for things they found confusing.
    Do you remember the rumor that Zeed created Apoclymon? I think it was on the already canceled Japanese website Digimon V-Residence or whatever it was called. Apparently, Zeed basically manipulated Ken to create Chimairamon. And that Demon also worked for it.


    So I think... that thanks to Tri, could be behind the plot hole and mark Yggy. Because what was it doing all along? Tri through Yggdrassill created one huge hole. Because just pulled out of the hat somewhat labile AI, which, for protection, kills everyone. And the same AI will have the world destroyed under its nose.

    Agents from Tri and Gennai and his data destruction on government pc is another...

  10. #90
    Super Moderator TMS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chisana Minamoto View Post
    Do you remember the rumor that Zeed created Apoclymon? I think it was on the already canceled Japanese website Digimon V-Residence or whatever it was called. Apparently, Zeed basically manipulated Ken to create Chimairamon. And that Demon also worked for it.
    It's from the profile for Apocalymon in D-1 Tamers, which says that Millenniumon's power (not Zeed's) "brought it forth." Probably that means that it released Apocalymon from its imprisonment (either intentionally or unintentionally) rather than actually creating it. Apocalymon's creation is described in Adventure and elsewhere. The thing about Ken being manipulated into creating Chimairamon is fan speculation*, and I don't think there's any evidence that Demon worked for Millenniumon.

    * It does seem likely to me that Ken's creation of Chimairamon was inspired by the Dark Seed in him. My own fan theory on Millenniumon's birth is that Chimairamon's and Mugendramon's data combined in the Dark World sometime after the former was destroyed by Magnamon. Millenniumon came into existence that way (which is why some sources state that it originated in the Dark World), then went back to 1999 to start causing trouble.
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