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Thread: Would you like more lgbt representation in digimon?

  1. #131
    I come from the net Muur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RinSignal View Post
    I'm not sure how much into spoiler territory this is, so I'm sorry if it's too much; I've stuck things in spoiler tags, but any spoilers are only about Hacker's Memory.

    On one hand, it's nice to see casual representation. On the other hand, makes me anxious since it usually isn't handled terribly well. It all depends. How Hacker's Memory handled that one "joke confession" from Keisuke moment in regards to Yuu wasn't great, but Fei just being casually in love with Yuuko was nice, especially since they had it seem as if she actually liked a boy until we find out the truth about Yuuko? Like, nothing changed about their relationship after the reveal, and even that one Memory talked about someone who was obviously Fei making rice balls for someone who I assumed was Yuugo, but the game used she/her, so I had been confused; but of course, it makes sense considering Yuuko. So in that sense, casual LGBT representation that doesn't make a big deal about it being so as if it's something drastic to pay attention to was nice to see.

    In terms of Cyber Sleuth, I've seen a couple people in this thread say Fei was rejected when she confessed? I just finished Hacker's Memory so I'm not sure where the rejection came in (unless it's present in the first game); while Fei is obvious about it, Yuuko is not very adept at human relationships and hasn't clearly noticed, and says that while she thinks "friends" doesn't sum up their relationship, Fei is precious to her. Did the rejection come in in the other possible option in that conversation about asking if they're lovers? I haven't seen that response chosen, so I might be missing that context.

    Also, just to point out a thing I've seen from reading through the thread, even if Yuuko is asexual, that doesn't mean she can't like girls as well. While I don't think canon points to that just from what I've seen of it, unless those who are saying she might be asexual rather than a lesbian are saying she's also aromantic, that doesn't disqualify her from any willingness to be with Fei, if that ever develops for them.
    in that part where you ask if theyre lovers, fei freaks out but then says she would be happy if theyre lovers, then asks what yuuko thinks about it, but then yuuko says "oh sorry i wasn't listening, I think youre precious to me" and then fei is sad but accepts this being the reason. so the convo ends up ending the same way, but with a sad fei after basically confessing to her as she gets all tsundere and goes "oh im sure yuuko wouldn't like you calling us lovers, but i'd be happy with that... what do you think yuuko?" and is blushing hard, then changes from blushing to sad

    I guess it's up to interpretation on if she *actually* wasn't listening or not

    also yes, fei was talking about yuuko in that "memory" of her perfect lover

    also youre right that they shoulnd't have had that part where keisuke taunts yu by fake confessing, but I ended up picking it because im a jerk i guess...


    there's actually a video of that here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_toH-gJPs8

  2. #132
    Completely digital Kotekuma's Avatar
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    I see folks bringing up ratings to dismiss the dialogue of this thread citing that Gay representation is moot without romance and that the television series might add well do without ther romance. But it's quite shallow to say. A character dies not need to be involved in a love plot to be understood or known to be gay. They also do need to make an out of place announcement. Think of all the situations in which we know a character to have heterosexual behavior. It is clearly seen in 5 of the 9 kids in Tri. Assuming that LGBT representation is defaulted to meeting a quota is showing a bias against. The show had always delved into challenging elements of the kids' lives. A LGBTQ subplot would fit right into the formula.


    And someone also dismissed LordKnightmon as not necessarily gay. Well yea, the character could be modeled after an effeminate straight man but the reading of queer is more evident. The Q in LGBTQ includes those cisgender heterosexual individuals that are "genderqueer".

  3. #133
    Ain't got no mojo... D O R U g o r a m o n's Avatar
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    The thing is, Digimon doesnt need identity politics. Identity politics ruins everything it touches. The characters are good because they are multidimensional, not forced to "represent" an specific part of the population. Its what makes Digimon so popular with such a wide group of people.

  4. #134
    Ain't got no mojo... Purple Recolor Censorship's Avatar
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    Well, nobody's saying the characters can't still be multidimensional. Not sure what the problem you're seeing is.

  5. #135
    I wouldn't mind that. We totally need more diversity for human characters in Digimon.

  6. #136
    I'm going digital Tortoiseshel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D O R U g o r a m o n View Post
    The thing is, Digimon doesnt need identity politics. Identity politics ruins everything it touches. The characters are good because they are multidimensional, not forced to "represent" an specific part of the population. Its what makes Digimon so popular with such a wide group of people.
    Just curious, how would you prefer LGBT characters be implemented without "identity politics"? Or are you saying you don't want any LGBT characters at all? If it's the latter, I'm sorry to say (not really) that you're a bit too late. Digimon already has some canonically (or at least very, very heavily coded) queer characters, and they're just as multifaceted as any of their cishet peers.

    Speaking of which, I just finished Hacker's Memory the other day. Yeah I'm like a year late, but I literally just got a PS4 a few months ago. I enjoyed it a lot! I really appreciated the lower stakes, like Cyber Sleuth's whole "Save the World!" typical story is going on in the background and it certainly effects the HM characters, but the main thrust of the story is largely about a small group of people and their relationships with each other. I much prefer these smaller character-focused stories to big, plot-heavy stories about saving everyone and everything. Those are just so overdone nowadays. But more on topic, I wanted to talk about Yu and how great he is. Spoilers, I guess:

    Keisuke was 100% right when he told Yu there's nothing weak about him (at least that's the option I chose; I totally would've chosen "I love you" had I not heard before that he immediately goes "lol jk" afterwards. That's really not cool, Bandai, let Keisuke date Yu for real). This is a guy who's been a victim of homophobic bullying his entire life- they never say explicitly that it's because he's gay, rather it's because of things like "he looks like a girl" or "he's weak and unmanly", but the queer coding is loud and clear in my opinion- but he never, ever changes who he is because of the abuse. He continues to dress how he likes, wear his hair how he likes, have whatever kinds of hobbies he likes, bullies be damned. He's a gender-nonconforming gay boy in a society that sees him as lesser for that, yet he continues to exist as his true self. That is strong as hell.

    At the same time though, he's by no means unaffected by the abuse he's suffered through. He's developed a very deep, very destructive, and very realistic self-hatred because of it. Yu thinks so little of himself that he ties any self-worth he might have to his one and only friend, Keisuke, and how "useful" he can be to him. But that's a very unstable, unhealthy way of seeing yourself and others, and it inevitably leads to someone (Matadormon) taking advantage of Yu's grief and causing him to nearly destroy the one relationship he has.

    That might all seem kinda contradictory to the preceding paragraph, but as someone who's lived a very similar situation- someone who is genuinely happy to be my weird, unconventional self, while also feeling like I'm useless and like I need to prove myself worthy of any bit of love or affection, subsequently sabotaging my friendships because of it- I can pretty confidently say it's not impossible to have both at the same time.

    The scene where K reveals himself as Yu and the scene after you beat Matadormon, where Yu is letting all his negative emotions burst out of him, yelling at Keisuke for forgiving him, insisting that Keisuke must hate him and that he's weak and worthless, even as Keisuke tried to reassure him that no, he does truly care about him and that he's not weak; Those scenes absolutely broke my heart, not just because I love Yu and I hated hearing him talk about himself like that, but also because it really hit close to home. I've said those kinds of things to my own friends before. And I bet I'm not the only player who felt that way.


    It's kinda funny, Cyber Sleuth gets compared to Persona a lot, usually unfavorably, but here is Digimon with multidimensional LGBT main characters like Yu and Fei and Yuuko, while Persona has, ever since 3, been pretty aggressively homophobic and transphobic despite claiming to be about resisting oppressive structures. Persona hasn't had a gay character half as good as Yu in like, 20 years. And Yu's treatment is far from perfect, but it's still leagues above Persona 5's only gay characters being nameless, stereotypical, pedophilic sexual predators, all played for a joke.

    Anyway that's my essay for the month.

  7. #137
    Ain't got no mojo... D O R U g o r a m o n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tortoiseshel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by D O R U g o r a m o n View Post
    The thing is, Digimon doesnt need identity politics. Identity politics ruins everything it touches. The characters are good because they are multidimensional, not forced to "represent" an specific part of the population. Its what makes Digimon so popular with such a wide group of people.
    Just curious, how would you prefer LGBT characters be implemented without "identity politics"? Or are you saying you don't want any LGBT characters at all? If it's the latter, I'm sorry to say (not really) that you're a bit too late. Digimon already has some canonically (or at least very, very heavily coded) queer characters, and they're just as multifaceted as any of their cishet peers.

    Speaking of which, I just finished Hacker's Memory the other day. Yeah I'm like a year late, but I literally just got a PS4 a few months ago. I enjoyed it a lot! I really appreciated the lower stakes, like Cyber Sleuth's whole "Save the World!" typical story is going on in the background and it certainly effects the HM characters, but the main thrust of the story is largely about a small group of people and their relationships with each other. I much prefer these smaller character-focused stories to big, plot-heavy stories about saving everyone and everything. Those are just so overdone nowadays. But more on topic, I wanted to talk about Yu and how great he is. Spoilers, I guess:

    Keisuke was 100% right when he told Yu there's nothing weak about him (at least that's the option I chose; I totally would've chosen "I love you" had I not heard before that he immediately goes "lol jk" afterwards. That's really not cool, Bandai, let Keisuke date Yu for real). This is a guy who's been a victim of homophobic bullying his entire life- they never say explicitly that it's because he's gay, rather it's because of things like "he looks like a girl" or "he's weak and unmanly", but the queer coding is loud and clear in my opinion- but he never, ever changes who he is because of the abuse. He continues to dress how he likes, wear his hair how he likes, have whatever kinds of hobbies he likes, bullies be damned. He's a gender-nonconforming gay boy in a society that sees him as lesser for that, yet he continues to exist as his true self. That is strong as hell.

    At the same time though, he's by no means unaffected by the abuse he's suffered through. He's developed a very deep, very destructive, and very realistic self-hatred because of it. Yu thinks so little of himself that he ties any self-worth he might have to his one and only friend, Keisuke, and how "useful" he can be to him. But that's a very unstable, unhealthy way of seeing yourself and others, and it inevitably leads to someone (Matadormon) taking advantage of Yu's grief and causing him to nearly destroy the one relationship he has.

    That might all seem kinda contradictory to the preceding paragraph, but as someone who's lived a very similar situation- someone who is genuinely happy to be my weird, unconventional self, while also feeling like I'm useless and like I need to prove myself worthy of any bit of love or affection, subsequently sabotaging my friendships because of it- I can pretty confidently say it's not impossible to have both at the same time.

    The scene where K reveals himself as Yu and the scene after you beat Matadormon, where Yu is letting all his negative emotions burst out of him, yelling at Keisuke for forgiving him, insisting that Keisuke must hate him and that he's weak and worthless, even as Keisuke tried to reassure him that no, he does truly care about him and that he's not weak; Those scenes absolutely broke my heart, not just because I love Yu and I hated hearing him talk about himself like that, but also because it really hit close to home. I've said those kinds of things to my own friends before. And I bet I'm not the only player who felt that way.


    It's kinda funny, Cyber Sleuth gets compared to Persona a lot, usually unfavorably, but here is Digimon with multidimensional LGBT main characters like Yu and Fei and Yuuko, while Persona has, ever since 3, been pretty aggressively homophobic and transphobic despite claiming to be about resisting oppressive structures. Persona hasn't had a gay character half as good as Yu in like, 20 years. And Yu's treatment is far from perfect, but it's still leagues above Persona 5's only gay characters being nameless, stereotypical, pedophilic sexual predators, all played for a joke.

    Anyway that's my essay for the month.
    I know about Yuuko, Fei and Yu. They are good characters because their sexuality is not their personality and is not forced on the player in a preachy manner. They are good, multi-dimensional characters that just happen to be Homosexual. Representation generally means forcing a character to a cringe-worthy stereotype for no other reason than grandstanding so called "virtue". I honestly dont want any romance in Digimon, as romance distracts from friendship between characters. Digimon should be about the interaction between Digimon and humans, not the weird and convoluted process of human reproduction. Im sorry if I sound a bit harsh on this, but thats because I want Digimon to be the best it can be.
    Last edited by D O R U g o r a m o n; 05-27-2019 at 08:14 PM.

  8. #138
    Super Moderator TMS's Avatar
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    The Kamishiro twins are gay? I don't remember it being indicated.

    Kind of off-topic, but since Persona was brought up, I've always wondered how LGBT+ people might feel about how Persona 4 handled things. Where, like, one of the playable characters is gay... but not really. And another character is trans... but not really.
    Last edited by TMS; 05-27-2019 at 08:00 PM.
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  9. #139
    I come from the net Muur's Avatar
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    Yuugo, we can't really say because he doesn't show up enough but also, I don't think anyone mentioned him?

    as for Yuuko, some people tend to think she's asexuel, which people say counts under LGBT

  10. #140
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    Yeah. I tend to use A at the end. Since I'm not clear on what Q means. Also a + but that's mostly just to save space.

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