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Thread: Sakkakumon/Sephirothmon map?

  1. #21
    Super Moderator TMS's Avatar
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    Of course, we should be careful when it comes to developing headcanons around this kind of thing, since there are a number of instances where the comparison definitely breaks down. For example, elsewhere in the Wikipedia article it talks about how each of the three vertical columns is associated with a different element, but when we compare them to the Frontier elements' positions there's no correspondence at all.

    Central Column, Pillar of Mildness (Neutral, Air Element): Steel, Darkness, Earth, Wood
    Right Column, Pillar of Mercy (Male, Fire Element): Light, Thunder, Water
    Left Column, Pillar of Severity (Female, Water Element): Flame, Ice, Wind

    Besides the "gender" of the columns, each sefirot has a gender of its own, and the interesting thing for Digimon fans is that only two of them are female! Unfortunately, the female sefirot would correspond to Flame and Wood instead of Wind and Water.

    As Kingbeemon mentioned, there are also colors associated with each sefirot, but there doesn't seem to have been any conscious effort on Toei's part to match the elements to them. Parts of it work very well, but other parts definitely don't.

    Keter (Steel) - Colorless
    Chochmah (Light) - All Colors
    Binah (Flame) - Green
    Chesud (Thunder) - White
    Gevurah (Ice) - Red
    Tiferet (Darkness) - Purple
    Netzach (Water) - Light Pink
    Hod (Wind) - Dark Pink
    Yesud (Earth) - Orange
    Malkhut (Wood) - Blue/Black

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingbeemon View Post
    Ophanimons also associated with Raphael in the series interesting how they flip the light and darkness relationship with rasielmon and ophanimon.
    Why do you say that?
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  2. #22
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    I'm not sure if I can post the link but the digimon wikia celestial digimon page states.

    That ophanimons associated with raphael, seraphimon with Michael and cherubimon to gabriel.

  3. #23
    Super Moderator TMS's Avatar
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    Ah, it's probably one of Inpu's headcanons. Not that it doesn't work. If we do adopt it, it would make Ophanimon the archangel of Darkness, Seraphimon the archangel of Wind, and Cherubimon the archangel of Earth. Or Ophanimon for Wind and Seraphimon for Darkness if you switch them around.
    Last edited by TMS; 02-01-2018 at 03:47 PM.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by TMS View Post
    Per my first diagram, the position of Thunder and Wood may be reversed. Since more of the “good” elements are higher, I assumed Wood was Malkhut. Also, it puts all of the “evil” elements (besides water) in the center column.

    By the way, I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure Celebi was being sarcastic.
    History is explained to us as an endless war between the "human" and "beast" Digimon (the war between the human and bestial elements in the spirit) which is ended by divine light. Ultimately, the light fails, overcome by materialistic concerns, and is subsequently vanquished by semi-divine "warriors" (remember that, esoterically, warriors are one of the three "castes" as it were capable of realizing spiritual truths - warriors, kings, priests). Afterwards, the divine light is divided into three - naturally, into two masculine and one feminine aspect - until one of them too descends into shadow. Thus the stage is set.

    Note also the assignment of elements. The children are assigned the uranic elements - fire, light, wind, lightning, ice. (Some may doubt ice, but ice is water in a state of Being rather than Becoming: c.f. "that which is 'human' here melts away as a dark memory of misery and as the specter of a long nightmare. The Angel awakens, the Ancient Ice: immobility and a vertiginously slow pace resolve every tension; this is the threshold and the transfiguration; beyond it lies - the world of the eternal.") The enemies are assigned the gaia-elements: earth, water, steel, wood, darkness. That said, it would be a mistake to identify the gaia-elements as evil in themselves, and this is made clear in the show. There is nothing evil in earth, or in darkness, they simply Are, but the road to the eternal does not lie on that path.

    The children have to first control their beast natures (the effective use of the Beast Spirits), unify the warring elements inside them (the double spirit evolution) and finally overcome them (at the end only the human spirits remain.) The remaining divine powers pass away, as it is a new age in the world (Kali Yuga), and their divinity comes instead to the children, who become increasingly purified as the show continues. Significantly, when the children are given the short road to returning whence they came, they refuse and still actively choose the initiatic path. Ultimately, they sacrifice the darkness inside of them (Kouichi) to overcome worldly materialism (Lucemon, who by the end literally personifies the world, having absorbed it), unify all their natures, and defeat forever the dragon and demonic element, Satan Mode.

    After the battle, their spiritualization has become so prominent that their "spirits" take physical form (soma athanton, achieved only by the truly talented) and the children ascend to another world, having obtained immortality as legends. Indeed, one of them literally overcomes death itself.

    As it is written, the tao that can be told is not the true tao, but that's the gist of it, and it would be very easy for the reader to exercise whatever initiatic talent he has by elucidating further. Frankly, it is almost hard not to see the esoteric elements in Frontier, as they are often (as in the case of Sefirotmon) almost too hamfisted. At any rate, it is certainly at an entirely different level than the spiritually dead and utterly lifeless Digimon Tamers.

    Quote Originally Posted by TMS View Post
    Ah, it's probably one of Inpu's headcanons. Not that it doesn't work. If we do adopt it, it would make Ophanimon the archangel of Darkness, Seraphimon the archangel of Wind, and Cherubimon the archangel of Earth. Or Ophanimon for Wind and Seraphimon for Darkness if you switch them around.
    It does sound fake to me, like someone decided to draw equivalences between the three most popular archangels and the Three Great Angels.To be fair, archangel is daitenshi, and Three Great Angels is sandaitenshi; i.e., we could translate it as Three Archangels if we wanted.
    Last edited by Shining Celebi; 02-02-2018 at 04:32 PM.

  5. #25
    Completely digital Muur's Avatar
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    I never did get why dudes live inside him. How and why did they end up there? What if he slides bsck to his original form, do they all die?

  6. #26
    I come from the net flintlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Celebi View Post

    Frontier is not the only series with a meaning hidden only for those who know. There is, after all, Hermes Trismegistus.
    What did you mean by this? Do you have any of your theories posted anywhere else? This is pretty fascinating stuff.

  7. #27
    I come from the net Inpu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMS View Post
    Ah, it's probably one of Inpu's headcanons. Not that it doesn't work. If we do adopt it, it would make Ophanimon the archangel of Darkness, Seraphimon the archangel of Wind, and Cherubimon the archangel of Earth. Or Ophanimon for Wind and Seraphimon for Darkness if you switch them around.
    It's based on their Japanese name being the three archangels, which is the term for Raphael, Michael, and Gabriel. Ofanimon's profile says that Seraphimon executes God's justice, Cherubimon guards his wisdom, and Ofanimon extends his mercy: Michael is the angel who leads god's armies against evil, Gabriel is the one who conveys revelation to the prophets, and Raphael performs healing.

    The franchise has not explicitly said they are linked in the manner it did with the SGDL, but this looks pretty open-and-shut as a design basis to me, at least for those three in their role as the Three Archangels. Certainly it's on the level of saying Lilithmon is based on Lilith.

    I can clarify on the wiki that it is a design thing and not an explicit bit of character data a la the Code Keys if it helps.

    EDIT: We've done this -- removed the info from the table so that it doesn't imply that it is an *explicitly stated* part of the canon, moved it to the design sections for the individual digimon showing how it plays into their influences. Done the same with the Dragons.

    • Michael in the Hebrew language means "Who is like God?" or "Who is equal to God?" Michael has been depicted from earliest Christian times as a commander, who holds in his right hand a spear with which he attacks Lucifer/Satan, and in his left hand a green palm branch. At the top of the spear, there is a linen ribbon with a red cross. The Archangel Michael is especially considered to be the Guardian of the Orthodox Faith and a fighter against heresies.
    • Gabriel means "God is my strength" or "Might of God." He is the herald of the mysteries of God, especially the Incarnation of God and all other mysteries related to it. He is depicted as follows: In his right hand, he holds a lantern with a lighted taper inside, and in his left hand, a mirror of green jasper. The mirror signifies the wisdom of God as a hidden mystery.
    • Raphael means "It is God who heals" or "God Heals" (Tobit 3:17, 12:15). Raphael is depicted leading Tobit (who is carrying a fish caught in the Tigris) with his right hand and holding a physician's alabaster jar in his left hand.
    As the Digital World's Holy Mother-like being, it imparts the loving and merciful side of God, while Seraphimon is the executor of the enlightened God's laws, and Cherubimon is the guardian of God and its wisdom; each has their own duty.
    Last edited by Inpu; 02-15-2018 at 08:26 AM.

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