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Thread: Concerning Attributes

  1. #1
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    Concerning Attributes

    I think this page on Wikimon is in need of an overhaul, but I'm a bit short on info to try and do it myself. It suggests that the weakness system dates all the way back to the V-pets, but was that really the case? The pages on the Pendulums don't mention anything about it, neither does Version S (I forget, wasn't S the first instance of attributes being used?). I recall the first Digimon World determined whether or not certain areas were accessible (Dark Lord Mansion for Viruses, Ice Sanctuary for Vaccines), but no other functions besides that. So far as I can tell, Digimon World 2 is the earliest instance of it being used in a rock-paper-scissors system.

    I'm also curious to know when the weakness system even came up in other media. The page particularly cites its usage in the card game, but I only recall a few cases of that ever happening. I know the Perfect forms of the three main Tamers Digimon had a special effect that raises power against the weaker attribute in their earliest cards (from the Starter Ver. 5 set), but there are also some cards that contradict this (such as this Dukemon that does higher damage against Vaccines despite being a Virus). While attributes are briefly mentioned, I don't recall weaknesses EVER being brought up in the anime (though amusingly enough, again regarding the Tamers Digimon, when they first went Perfect, their opponents were a Deva of the weaker attribute and disposed of rather quickly... possibly a coincidence, though). I know that Cyber Sleuth is using the weakness system now. Unfortunately, I never played any of the DS Story games nor the more recent Digimon World titles, so I can't tell whether or not they ever invoked it. I do recall that Digimon World 3 (and X/4 for that matter) never even referenced attributes, and I think they were little more than flavor text in the WonderSwan games.

    Then there's the other attributes. It briefly touches upon Variable and how it functions in battle, but says absolutely nothing about Free (I think in the D-3 toys that first featured it, your Digimon changes attributes between Vaccine, Data, and Virus depending on the time of day, or was it determined by frequently training it during those parts of the day? At any rate, I don't know whether the change in attributes actually did anything beyond flavor text). It also says that Unknown has an advantage over all other attributes (since when was this ever a thing? No citation was given). For that matter, is there a difference between "Unknown" and "None" (the latter being a characteristic of practically all Baby Digimon)? It should also be worth noting that Cyber Sleuth seems to be incorporating Free as a completely neutral attribute (void of both strengths and weaknesses), while also applying it to any Digimon that would otherwise have an unknown attribute, no attribute, and likely Variable (assuming a Hybrid is featured in Hacker's Memory or any future games). In fact, it seems Free and Variable were already shown to be interchangeable with BanchoStingmon (which has "Free" in its profile, but is counted as "Variable" in the card game, which refuses to ever use Free, instead opting to give all the 02 Digimon actual attributes, but was just fine using Variable once Frontier came along).
    Last edited by Yamato-san; 10-17-2017 at 11:34 PM.

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    For the card game, the rock-paper-scissors system for attributes was only really in place until about Starter ver. 3/Booster 4; all Vaccine Digimon have battle type A, all Data Digimon have battle type B, and all Virus Digimon have battle type C. After those sets, they started to mix battle types up so they don't correspond with attributes anymore. After that, attributes really only play a part when specific special abilities/effects target certain attributes or require certain attribute Digimon to activate them, or when some Digimon cannot evolve from Digimon of certain attributes.

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    Junior Commander Gigamon23's Avatar
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    The Attribute system did indeed begin in the V-Pet era, starting with the Pendulums. Some great articles on the early V-pet history in general by the forum's own Touya can be found here, with the section on the gameplay of the Pendulum and the D-1 tournament where the Attribute system first came into play here. Other attributes did not exist initially, but were added as the franchise expanded. The whole system really played no role in the anime, with the exception of virus digimon happening to comprise the main bulk of the bad guys in Adventure. It's really been a mutilated and nearly-forgotten mechanic with regard to other media, usually substituted for something else--like the elemental attribute system of attacks in Digimon World Dawn/Dusk, for example. (Which, to be fair, makes sense, as the Attribute system of the Pendulums would probably have been a little too simplistic for a full game.)

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    There is a rock-paper-scissors weakness system on the Original V-Pets, though it doesn't really match up with what we now think of as the Digimon's attribute. It's discussed in two guidebooks that we know of, and I confirmed it with some testing.
    https://withthewill.net/threads/1433...beats-Pendulum

    Pendulum Digimon have the modern attribute assignments, and it's widely assumed that Data beats Vaccine beats Virus, but I've not tested whether this really works.

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    So what I'm getting from all this is that the weakness system was indeed incorporated into the Pendulums. That article on Tamer Union also briefly hints at the weakness system playing a role in the first Digimon World (though if such is the case, how come I never recall seeing it mentioned anywhere else? I checked this game quite a bit on GameFAQS back in the day). And assuming what I said about Free is true, changing your Digimon's attribute would be important for link battles with the previous Pendulum toys (and probably battles against in-game Digimon), correct? Honestly, I've seen so little info out there on what it is attributes actually do, I was assuming it was mostly flavor text in all but a scant few video games until now.

    But did the attribute system first appear in Ver. S? And did weaknesses apply there? Or were the Pendulums the first to feature it? Also, I did some looking around, and it seems like the "Unknown beats everything" rule might've come from Digimon Masters Online (and Digimon with no attribute were weak against everything). I'm only basing this on a single image that popped up in Google Images, so feel free to correct me if this is false.

  6. #6
    In Digimon World, attributes also play on wild encounter: if your attribute is stronger (ex: Vaccine > Virus) than enemies before battle, most would go away from you instead of approaching you, if you're weaker then it's the opposite, if it's the same, IIRC it's same like when you're weaker. Also, right before battle initiated, such things might also applies, i mean when one of the enemy "catches" you, other enemy(ies) that has weaker attribute may run away before battle started. Also, there's one guy on the net recently that looked into the game code for damage calculation, and if i'm not wrong, attributes play a role in it.

    In Digimon Championship, i don't recall attributes play a role in battle, but it does in evolution and for hunting equipments. I don't remember if attributes play major role in Ryo series (wonderswan), but i think i saw them used. Reigitize & Next 0rder might also use attributes similarly to Digimon World, not too sure though. Surely attributes aren't being used in Story games in DS. Regarding, Digimon Masters, that's true, all babies are None and is weaker against every other attributes while Un is stronger than other attributes, and as for Variable, all of the hybrid are turned into None instead of variable (except Agnimon, Vritramon, and KaiserGreymon).

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    Junior Commander Gigamon23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yamato-san View Post
    But did the attribute system first appear in Ver. S? And did weaknesses apply there? Or were the Pendulums the first to feature it?
    So if we consider the first three major media entries of the franchise: The original "Digital Monster", Digital Monster Ver. S, and the Digimon Pendulum, we can see that each one had a different method of determining the advantages of one monster over another.

    The original Digital Monster placed each Digimon according to it's position in the growth chart. The first entry in the D-1 series of articles from Tamer Union goes into more depth, but here's a guidebook image of the classification of each Digimon and a chart of their probability of winning against one another on the following page:


    As for Version S, it featured an entirely unique attribute system, as detailed in this article on the forum:
    https://withthewill.net/threads/1546...amers-Findings

    The article I first linked to from Tamer Union had this to say about the Pendulum attribute system:
    "Jogress was only possible between two compatible Digimon. This was related to the game's proper introduction of the attribute cycle, a first for the virtual pets. In this system each Digimon was classified as Vaccine, Virus, or Data, and was strong against one type while weak against another. Unlike later entries in the series, in Pendulum there were no non-elemental "Free" or "Null" Digimon. The outcome of the Jogress depended on which attributes were used, with two Vaccines creating a Vaccine and the same went for double Data and double Virus. When two different attributes were mixed the formula applied was Vaccine x Data = Vaccine, Data x Virus = Virus, and Virus x Vaccine = Data. However, these rules could only be applied to Jogressing Child-level Digimon to the Adult stage. When Jogressing to Perfect and Ultimate, under Pendulum rules both Digimon had to be of the same attribute or they would be incompatible."

    (Side note: he means when jogressing Adult-level Digimon to Perfect, not child-level to adult.)

    The article prior to this also mentions how the "elemental triangle" of how the attributes played out in battle goes like this: Vaccine > Virus > Data > Vaccine.

    Long story short, yes, the first instance of the Vaccine/Data/Virus attribute system did occur with the Pendulums. However, everything prior to that did have its own method of determining advantage in gameplay.
    Last edited by Gigamon23; 10-21-2017 at 07:00 AM.

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    Given recent screenshots of Hacker's Memory, it seems my speculation of Cyber Sleuth treating Variable as Free was right after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Idiysar Almond View Post
    In Digimon World, attributes also play on wild encounter: if your attribute is stronger (ex: Vaccine > Virus) than enemies before battle, most would go away from you instead of approaching you, if you're weaker then it's the opposite, if it's the same, IIRC it's same like when you're weaker. Also, right before battle initiated, such things might also applies, i mean when one of the enemy "catches" you, other enemy(ies) that has weaker attribute may run away before battle started. Also, there's one guy on the net recently that looked into the game code for damage calculation, and if i'm not wrong, attributes play a role in it.
    Considering that, outside of boss battles for certain recruitable Digimon, almost every enemy in the game is original, I gotta wonder if Digimon World programmed the enemies with the same attributes they'd go on to have in the card game. Granted, most of them are recolors, and they do tend to share the same attribute as their base form in other media, but there are exceptions to this (ex. Tsukaimon and Tekkamon being Viruses, unlike Patamon and Giromon), not to mention a few enemies like Yanmamon being 100% original. I'm sure the game's been cracked in this regard, so does anyone know if the enemy attributes match up with the ones seen in later media? I do know this wasn't the case with the three hidden Digimon: Panjyamon, Gigadramon, and MetalEtemon (which are, respectively, Data, Data, and Vaccine; ironically, Pendulum 1.0 should've already been out at this point, so MetalEtemon not being a Virus is rather odd).
    Last edited by Yamato-san; 10-24-2017 at 08:21 PM.

  9. #9
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    I remember that in Digimon World 2, the term Vaccine Virus and Data were more focused than any digimon RPG before (Ver S not included). Jogressing vaccine and virus will create vaccine, virus x data = virus, and data x vaccine = vaccine. This also applies that when a vaccine hits a virus one, the damage is higher, if the vice versa the damage is weaker. There are also some tricky support attacks that used the attribute mechanics (I remember WaruMonzaemon's Heartbreak Attack which decrease all non virus digimon motivations so they can't use high-MP attacks). I don't remember much of how Digimon World 1's gameplay do have effects against attributes besides of only story-related (ice sanctuary & grey lord mansion).
    Last edited by DATS24; 11-14-2017 at 11:20 PM.

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