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Thread: English Hacker's Memory Footage of Domination Battles & a Quest

  1. #21
    I come from the net Jay Ukyou's Avatar
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    'cheating' is an odd way of putting it.

    Honestly, it sounds like there's more complaints about CS's overly-simplistic dungeon design more than the option to turn off random encounters. CS has a general issue with enemy difficulty, too. I think the combination of these factors is what contributes to the feeling of 'turning off randoms kills all challenge/is cheating'. Because apart from slogging through the annoyance of random encounters that you're just oneshotting, there isn't much challenge in CS apart from optional bosses.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by floof View Post
    The Ds dungeons on the other hand, were pretty nice. They had interesting environments, and there was plenty to explore (perhaps a little too much at times, however). Despite the tedious encounter rates, the dungeons were much more enjoyable than those in Cyber Sleuth. At least the dungeons can be memorable, even if they're only memorable for being difficult (I'm lookin' at you Loop Swamp and Micro Sea/Access Glacier!).
    It's the complete opposite for me. The high encounter rate in Digimon Story ("Digimon World DS") is what prevents me from truly enjoying the game -- or at least enjoying it enough to finally finish it one of these days. It seems like every 3 or 4 steps is another encounter, and if you take into consideration the fact that each Digimon materializes/gets scanned one at a time in battle...it gets tedious rather quickly. Sure, the dungeons looked good and had different paths to explore. Cyber Sleuth's dungeons mostly paled in comparison and they really could've used some more pizzazz. But the ability to control the encounter rate as you became more powerful not only made Cyber Sleuth a very satisfying experience, but it also connected to the story's strongest motifs (being able to "hack" the game itself).

    I get what you're saying about it feeling like "cheating" and I guess I can even see how it "defeats the purpose of JRPGs" like you said, but I don't really agree with those sentiments myself. The encounter rate in the original Digimon Story is way too high and the game would have benefited from an item or an option to reduce the rate like in Cyber Sleuth. I'm a big RPG fan and I love random encounters (it brings back memories of older FF games), but not when it's every 2 or 3 steps.

    I also think you're missing the point that Cyber Sleuth has an entire secondary level of the Digimon fetch quests in addition to the main game. When you're just trying to get the quests done, the last thing I want to do is grind my team and waste time running from random encounters (especially since many of the quests take place in the earlier stages of Kowloon that feature Baby-level Digimon). On the other hand, the function of initiating a random battle helps the grinding process so you're not just running around waiting for a random encounter while bloating the game clock with time spent doing nothing but moving the character around the screen aimlessly.

    And I guess to bring this back to the main topic at hand...I doubt Hacker's Memory will do anything about this because it's not really an issue in Cyber Sleuth. The concept of either reducing the encounter rate or eliminating random encounters (and/or initiating battles on command) is useful and wonderful, and since it's just an option, there's really no logical reason why you feel it shouldn't be in the game unless it offends your sensibilities or something like that. You have the option of not using this tool; in fact, you also have the option of INCREASING the encounter rate if that's more to your liking. More control is not a bad thing in this instance.

    It'd be nice if Hacker's Memory could decorate its dungeons better than Cyber Sleuth did, but from what I've seen, that doesn't seem to be the case -- at least not in a significant degree -- and that makes sense since this takes place alongside the original game. Hopefully the next Digimon Story game will take this into consideration.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Ukyou View Post
    'cheating' is an odd way of putting it.

    Honestly, it sounds like there's more complaints about CS's overly-simplistic dungeon design more than the option to turn off random encounters. CS has a general issue with enemy difficulty, too. I think the combination of these factors is what contributes to the feeling of 'turning off randoms kills all challenge/is cheating'. Because apart from slogging through the annoyance of random encounters that you're just oneshotting, there isn't much challenge in CS apart from optional bosses.
    Yep, it connects to all aspect. That's why I can say that. It's true that making ppl able to turn off encounter is good, but it's good for its merits: avoiding cheap wild battles, so the feature is killing the fun factor of the game itself. So imagine like you're playing a digimon game with no wild battles, just important battles and bosses. So there will be obviously no player who wanna be masochist and increase wild encounter rate. And obviously there will be no complaint against the feature, coz most of ppl agree that wild battle sucks. Ppl just are being straightforward, but I'm thinking of the whole game aspect.
    Last edited by DATS24; 07-02-2017 at 10:23 PM.

  4. #24
    You know what would rock? Is a Digimon Story game took a few elements from the Wild Arms series (also by Media.Vision). The battle system in CS already bears some resemblance to some Wild Arms games, but they could also implement features like the system where you can skip encounters at a lower level than you with a button press or things like Force Points in WA to negate or supplement the MP. Just a thought~


  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by AquaVersus View Post
    It's the complete opposite for me. The high encounter rate in Digimon Story ("Digimon World DS") is what prevents me from truly enjoying the game -- or at least enjoying it enough to finally finish it one of these days. It seems like every 3 or 4 steps is another encounter, and if you take into consideration the fact that each Digimon materializes/gets scanned one at a time in battle...it gets tedious rather quickly. Sure, the dungeons looked good and had different paths to explore.

    But the ability to control the encounter rate as you became more powerful not only made Cyber Sleuth a very satisfying experience, but it also connected to the story's strongest motifs (being able to "hack" the game itself).
    Yep, the DS game's only merit is its frustrating encounter rate, just like in digimon world 3, no repels, nothing. That's why I think some kind of repels are needed, but NOT completely disabling any encounter.

    I get what you're saying about it feeling like "cheating" and I guess I can even see how it "defeats the purpose of JRPGs" like you said, but I don't really agree with those sentiments myself. The encounter rate in the original Digimon Story is way too high and the game would have benefited from an item or an option to reduce the rate like in Cyber Sleuth. I'm a big RPG fan and I love random encounters (it brings back memories of older FF games), but not when it's every 2 or 3 steps.
    That's why I said they need a middle way of handling it. Why not making the hacking skill be like "you can turn it on, but it only lasts for few seconds, and having cool down, so you can't use it too long."

    I also think you're missing the point that Cyber Sleuth has an entire secondary level of the Digimon fetch quests in addition to the main game. When you're just trying to get the quests done, the last thing I want to do is grind my team and waste time running from random encounters (especially since many of the quests take place in the earlier stages of Kowloon that feature Baby-level Digimon). On the other hand, the function of initiating a random battle helps the grinding process so you're not just running around waiting for a random encounter while bloating the game clock with time spent doing nothing but moving the character around the screen aimlessly.
    You can instead leave your digimon on digifarm, go outside digilab for few seconds, and you see your digimon getting its level escalated quickly. So, yeah. Wild battle still sucks.

    And I guess to bring this back to the main topic at hand...I doubt Hacker's Memory will do anything about this because it's not really an issue in Cyber Sleuth. The concept of either reducing the encounter rate or eliminating random encounters (and/or initiating battles on command) is useful and wonderful, and since it's just an option, there's really no logical reason why you feel it shouldn't be in the game unless it offends your sensibilities or something like that. You have the option of not using this tool; in fact, you also have the option of INCREASING the encounter rate if that's more to your liking. More control is not a bad thing in this instance.

    It'd be nice if Hacker's Memory could decorate its dungeons better than Cyber Sleuth did, but from what I've seen, that doesn't seem to be the case -- at least not in a significant degree -- and that makes sense since this takes place alongside the original game. Hopefully the next Digimon Story game will take this into consideration.
    It's not really an issue for the fans, but for real gaming critics, it is, and for me, it's too. Bcos all the complaints from ppl is that CS is poor of varieties, especially in level design. Games like CS is a story-driven game, so that it's reasonable that ppl were not really into the gameplay (especially exploring). But why digimon games can't be at least close to perfect? They can both focus on story and gameplay aspect. Cyber Sleuth is still a hit and miss for me after all.
    Last edited by DATS24; 07-02-2017 at 09:57 PM.

  6. #26
    I come from the net Jay Ukyou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DATS24 View Post
    Yep, the DS game's only merit is its frustrating encounter rate,
    I don't think you're using the word 'merit' correctly. This sentence confuses me. Can you clarify?

    That's why I said they need a middle way of handling it. Why not making the hacking skill be like "you can turn it on, but it only lasts for few seconds, and having cool down, so you can't use it too long."
    This isn't a bad option, but I think I'd prefer just a simple encounter toggle or sliding scale as opposed to trying to play a 'no encounter' mini-game while trying to navigate a dungeon...
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Ukyou View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DATS24 View Post
    Yep, the DS game's only merit is its frustrating encounter rate,
    I don't think you're using the word 'merit' correctly. This sentence confuses me. Can you clarify?

    That's why I said they need a middle way of handling it. Why not making the hacking skill be like "you can turn it on, but it only lasts for few seconds, and having cool down, so you can't use it too long."
    This isn't a bad option, but I think I'd prefer just a simple encounter toggle or sliding scale as opposed to trying to play a 'no encounter' mini-game while trying to navigate a dungeon...
    I mean the only bad thing personally from DS games is its frustrating encounter rate, yeah sorry, english problem...

    for the encounter feature, I still feel that having "forever no wild enemies until you turn it off" is still kinda unfair for digimon games. Probably next Story games need to have visible wild enemies, perhaps?

  8. #28
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    So recently I decided to do a few tests. I remembered, back when Cs came out for PS4 there were claims of higher texture resolutions on Digimon yet everything I ever saw of the PS4 version didn't really live up to that; textures were cleaner because they were less compressed but not actually bigger (they probably were in the case of N0 because the vita textures for that game were horrendous).
    So as most of the footage and promotional material for Hacker's Memory seems to come from the PS4 I decided to have a look at all the returning Digimon we've seen so far and compare the texture resolution to the current best textures I have right now (the Cyber Sleuth Vita textures) and see if they have been improved... or not.
    This of course relies on the assumption that the textures used in promotional screenshots and renders represent the texture quality to be used in the final game. Results so far:

    Wormmon: No
    Koromon:Yes
    Gottsumon:No
    Agumon: Yes
    Gabumon: Yes
    Mugendramon: No
    Tigervespamon:No
    Cyberdramon: No
    Holydramon:No
    Ankylomon:No
    Tentomon: No
    Chrysalimon: No
    Guardromon (Gold) : Yes/No*
    Omegamon: Maybe?**

    *In this case the textures were bigger than the Next 0rder vita textures but not bigger than the Cyber Sleuth textures for the standard Guardromon, I believe the PS4 version N0 uses the 512x512 of these textures already

    **Not sure yet... in one of the screenshots it looks like the breastplate might have more detal although the detail on the grey-sword is definitely the same... it could just be the angle.

    ...So far that's not very impressive. I can't really say anything definitive about the textures on the new digimon since without the model you never know how the UV is "distributed".



    About some of the other discussions in this thread:
    I don't think that anything that the Developers put in the game intentionally and make available to the player through normal gameplay (as opposed to hidden consoles or debug modes and stuff like that) could be considered cheating per definition.

    I don't understand how giving the option to disable something that "many people agree sucks" could somehow be worse from the game as a whole.
    As for the "critics" argument... if critics take an issue with something that most gamers don't mind that just sounds like we're dealing with useless critics that are out of touch with their audience.

    And of course, there are games out there that don't feature random battles and only boss battles, and very well received ones at that. Could there be a Digimon game like this? I don't see why not, it might even be a really good one (I always found the idea that some dungeon just randomly has a practically infinite amount of digimon hanging around in it, that all just happen to want to eat your face and that can materialize out of nowhere to be a kind of a dumb concept in general).
    Would it still be a JRPG in that case? Maybe not, but who cares. Using genre descriptors in a way that sucks creativity out of design possibilities is about the most toxic thing you can do.

    I do agree about the level design though... I haven't played Cyber Sleuth but one of the fun things in DW3 is always that the levels were basically tiny labyrinths. Figuring out the paths and eventually being able to get through the jungle grave or enter the Protocol ruins on first try was a nice achievement. In my opinion levels shouldn't just be dressed up corridors, in order to make it interesting there should either be lots of NPCs to talk to and lots of things to interact with or the traversal of the level should be a challenge in itself. If it's something where you just rush from point A to point B while just hoping not to get attacked on the way seems boring (but as I said I don't know how bad CS actually is with that). It's been a long time since I played the DS games but I think it hit many of the level design beats that DW3 also had.

    ...also, don't call me Igno.

  9. #29
    Red shirt Vaioumon's Avatar
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    Love the domination battle. Hope they have more complex versions too. And it's of course nice to see some of the new digimon in action.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DATS24 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Ukyou View Post
    I dunno, I've personally found that the best-received JRPGs tend to give you both a sliding scale of enemy difficulty and encounter rate. Bravely Default and The World Ends With You for prime examples of how giving the player more choice on how many battles they want to play tends to make players enjoy playing battles more.
    I don't say that I don't like it at all, it might work on other JRPG, but for CS, sorry, it's cheating. There's few reasons:

    1. Wild battles in CS are cheap, yeah they're not any important / challenging at all. If you wanna big exp, just go to the last dungeon, then do direct encounter skill many times. It will make you avoid all random battles when finally able to use the skill except in last floor of last dungeon.

    2. No objective to scan digimon more. Coz pretty much your digimon can evolve into anythingmon. So just making 11 digimon is already more than enough coz you can choose what route you can both evolve and devolve, you can get all digimon in no time. It's not like in the DS where scanning is important bcos that's the only way to get correspondent digimon and unlock its evo. I mean, you won't find any dorugoramon in wild battle of Sunburst, you have to scan dorugamon in wild battles and yet there's no dorumon or dorugreymon anywhere. So this is connected to the first reason coz player will obviously 90% avoid any random encounter.
    Sounds like you played on easy/normal. Play on hard and it's a different game. Some of the boss fights are almost impossible. It's weird how different normal and hard are, on normal you can kill a boss in three hits. On hard that same boss fight will take over an hour

    Also... if you're complaining about the ability to remove wild battles (like using a repel in Pokemon) then don't use it!!!!!!!!!!! turning off battles and having the ablity to insta battle (both also in Pokemon and other JRPGs) is important for grinding, as well as quickly getting through a dungeon for say, a item collect side quest. What benefit would level 99 megas have in killing level 1 babies? it's a waste of time and turning off battles now and then is good.

    Quote Originally Posted by DATS24 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Ukyou View Post
    'cheating' is an odd way of putting it.

    Honestly, it sounds like there's more complaints about CS's overly-simplistic dungeon design more than the option to turn off random encounters. CS has a general issue with enemy difficulty, too. I think the combination of these factors is what contributes to the feeling of 'turning off randoms kills all challenge/is cheating'. Because apart from slogging through the annoyance of random encounters that you're just oneshotting, there isn't much challenge in CS apart from optional bosses.
    Yep, it connects to all aspect. That's why I can say that. It's true that making ppl able to turn off encounter is good, but it's good for its merits: avoiding cheap wild battles, so the feature is killing the fun factor of the game itself. So imagine like you're playing a digimon game with no wild battles, just important battles and bosses. So there will be obviously no player who wanna be masochist and increase wild encounter rate. And obviously there will be no complaint against the feature, coz most of ppl agree that wild battle sucks. Ppl just are being straightforward, but I'm thinking of the whole game aspect.
    No one does that. If they try to do that, they will lose every boss fight and then grind. You're complaining for the sake of complaining about an OPTIONAL feature. People don't think battles suck... people think pointless battles suck. Also if Digimon are on the field like in Next Order that's even easier to avoid cuz you just run passed them, no hacking skill needed
    Last edited by Muur; 07-04-2017 at 07:28 PM.

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