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Thread: The Seven Demon Lords - Strongest To Weakest

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Theigno View Post
    Strength is... always a matter of interpretation with very little solid evidence depending on your exact definition of the term strength or under what circumstances you think their power should apply.

    Wait, how can Leviamon be the weakest one if his profile explicitly describes it as "the strongest monster in the digital world" with jaws that could literally swallow the world whole (bringing him to a similarly broken level as EBEmon's Planet Destroyer)
    There is of course the (seeming) contradiction with Lucemon Falldown mode's profile which describes FDM as the "Strongest of the Seven Great Demon Lords". But if Leviamon is the strongest monster in general Lucemon (being a monster himself) can no longer be the strongest demon lord.
    There might be some solutions to this problem: While the "Demon Lord" status of both Digimon isn't really something to be doubted, there is a bit of leeway in Leviamon's profile... either by stipulation that the rather humanoid Lucemon might not count as a monster (which I doubt... since he's a Digimon and all) or the more promising interpretation would be by targeting the phrase "in the digital world": It would be possible for Leviamon to be the strongest Monster in the digital world even while Lucemon is stronger in the case of Lucemon not being located in the digital world... and we have indeed a precedent for this kind of argument since Lucemon's profile states that he has been sealed in the Dark Area. The question now becomes if you can legitimately call the Dark Area a separate world from the digital world itself... this distinction is especially questionable in the profile canon as in Leviamon's profile itself Leviamon is mentioned living in the Net Ocean "near the dark area" and Devimon's profile describing the Dark Area as existing within a "spatial distortion" of the digital world. Both of these passages imply the Dark Area to be a part or at least a sub-dimension of the digital world itself thus invalidating the "different world" justification for the profiles' strength paradox. But there might still be enough vagueness to interpret the Dark Area as its own separated space that is enclosed enough to not really count as part of the world for most of the digimon population (Leviamon included).

    Anyway, I would put those two at the very top. I feel that Deino's arguments about the practicality of agility are convincing as well but apply in another context altogether.

    As noted in the opening paragraph it's all about your preferred definition of "strength" or "power".
    Is it a quantitative approach that simply defines power as the amount of energy (everything from kinetic, radiant, electric etc) that a Digimon can output in any way within a defined time?
    Is it a pragmatic approach that defines strength as the probability of a Digimon to win a fight against other Digimon given specific starting conditions (the much more complicated option that in the case of Digimon as thinking, intelligent beings would also involve a need to describe social and tactical circumstance of the combatants)?


    Quote Originally Posted by NeoZero101 View Post
    Also i am pretty sure Lucemon of the Demon Lords can go Satan Mode.
    That's besides the point though. Dukemon can evolve to MedievalDukemon but that doesn't automatically make MedievalDukemon a Royal Knight himself.
    Lucemon Satan Mode has as far as I know never been described as a member of the SGDL in any media be it card games, video games or anywhere else. Generically as a "Demon Lord", sure but the same is true of BelialVemdemon since the label is independent of the actual SGDL group.
    Even in Digimon Fortune which included many tangentially related Digimon in their "groups" for the first time (although if iirc the game used the label "Affiliation" or something along those lines which is an important distinction, since you can be affiliated with a group without being directly part of it), Satan Mode did not qualify to be counted as part of the SGDL. I don't think any more recent game overrode that, as of the present state of the canon Satan Mode is not part of this group.

    The same goes for Demon Super Ultimate. Needless to say if you identify Demon lords form an individualist perspective he is immediately disqualified since the individual Demon in V-Tamer cannot be part of the SGDL because when the character was introduced the group still didn't exist. In terms of species there also no proof of his inclusion as the Demon Super Ultimate card in Hyper colloseum isn't classified as part of the SGDL group even though it was released in 2003, the same year other members of the group such as Lucemon FDM and Lilithmon got cards that did classify them as members of the group.

    Blast Mode is the only "tangential" species in the list that might actually qualify due to him being listed as a member on a single Digimon Jintrix card.

    I don't see any Beelzebumon form as particularly impressive because their never really presented that overwhelmingly and the only thing he has going for him is that his profile says that he could stand at the peak of the nightmare soldiers which isn't much of an achivement considering most of the more powerful dark Digimon are of the "Dark Area" variety.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoZero101 View Post
    Also didn't Belzemon have help beating Megidramon, Without taking the data of the ultimate Digimon i think Beelzemon might have lost.
    The same reasoning could be applied to all Demon Lord Digimon if you take the lore introduced in Cyber Sleuth into account. If every time a demon lord gets defeated in some part of the multiverse the other Demon lord in the rest of the multiverse get stronger this means that you cannot say that, only because you might see a Barbamon in a future entry of the franchise being portrayed as stronger than say, the Lucemon FDM in Frontier, that Barbamon is a stronger species than lucemon FDM, since due to the multiversal power siphoning that the group has going on (and the fact that they end up dead in a lot of stories) the overall power of all of them should increase over time making it hard, if not impossible to ascertain any kind of "base strength" for a given Demon Lord species.

    Quote Originally Posted by ukyouluvr View Post
    6. Daemon (Same, but in 02)
    I beg to differ. In fact I would argue that Demon was among the strongest beings that we ever saw in Zero Two. Imperialdramon FM's beam which was able to harm BelialVamdemon could not even begin to penetrate Demon's forcefield and was indeed pushed back until the other Partner Digimon joined the fight. Even with their help no one could do even the slightest bit of physical damage to Demon.
    And Keep in mind that recently we've had Imperialdramon FM being classified as an Super Ultimate level Digimon, meaning that Demon even in his base non Super Ultimate form (and the robed mode is sometimes even portrayed as an additional downgrade) Demon is physically stronger than a Digimon qualifying for Super Ultimate status.
    You could make the case that the 02 Imperialdramon FM is weaker than what we see of the species in CS but the moment you introduce the assertion that an individual demonstration of power of a given species is independent of a species' performance in other continuities, then the same would logically apply to Demon and the rest of the Demon Lords as well making all multi continuity comparisons between them inherently meaningless.
    I am really amazed with the knowledge you know of Digimon. Also in Leviamon's Profile it says that it is able to eat the entire Digital World, but could this just be a False statement similar to Hinukamuy a champion level Digimon its profile states that Hinukamuy is so strong that "there couldn't exist any kind of Digimon to be recognised as a rival". So does that mean that this champion level Digimon can beat Alphamon or ZeedMilleniumon i Don't think it can.
    Last edited by NeoZero101; 12-28-2016 at 10:58 AM.

  2. #12
    Super Moderator TMS's Avatar
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    Well, a Digimon is only ever as strong as the plot of whatever it's in needs it to be. We can take the profiles into consideration, but there is no right list of "strongest to weakest" anything.
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  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by TMS View Post
    Well, a Digimon is only ever as strong as the plot of whatever it's in needs it to be. We can take the profiles into consideration, but there is no right list of "strongest to weakest" anything.
    t
    That is true we will only ever know which demon lord is the strongest to weakest is if there was an anime or movie where they all were gathered as a group. That way we could see who is more stronger than who with their interactions and there skills

  4. #14
    Super Moderator TMS's Avatar
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    Even then, the dynamics of the group will probably change if it ever shows up again in something else.

    Edit:
    For actual numbers, one can always look to the card game, but then you're still comparing individuals rather than species. If you look at just the card with the highest total attack power for each of them, you wind up with this order:

    1. Leviamon (3000)
    2. Belphemon RM (2570)
    3. Demon (2480)
    4. Lucemon FM (2330)
    5. Beelzebumon (1790)
    6. Lilithmon (1780)
    7. Barbamon (1760)
    Last edited by TMS; 12-26-2016 at 07:17 PM.
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  5. #15
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    What? Demon's Hooded thingy mode is actually downgraded? I thought that alternative costume is just like Archnemon and Mummymon's Humanoid forms.
    That Cult costume mode didn't decrease in power according to his official card compared to Demon's first card.

  6. #16
    Super Moderator TMS's Avatar
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    The hooded version might be considered a downgrade because in Digimon Story the hooded version is the non-Great Demon Lord version. And in Digimon Masters the non-mantled version is the Burst Mode.
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  7. #17
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    I thought the hooded version made him look more Demon Overlordy and less goofy.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by DontStopPataPata View Post
    I thought the hooded version made him look more Demon Overlordy and less goofy.
    Have you seen his Super Ultimate form he looks amazing and is so much more stronger than the hooded form
    Last edited by NeoZero101; 12-27-2016 at 10:22 AM.

  9. #19
    I come from the net Jay Ukyou's Avatar
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    I'm inclined to agree with Theigno's assessment, but if pressed on the issue, the numbers from the cards work close enough for me.

    Again, the correct answer is almost certainly "the strongest one is the one that meets the needs of the plot to be the strongest".

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