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Thread: 3D Models from Digimon Linkz (and by extension Cyber Sleuth and Next 0rder)

  1. #1
    Super Moderator Theigno's Avatar
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    3D Models from Digimon Linkz (and by extension Cyber Sleuth and Next 0rder)



    The main archive is currently up to date for Digimon Linkz 2.2.1


    When Cyber Sleuth was made its entire roster of Digimon got new great looking 3D models. And as you would expect Bandai is now using these assets in other games; Next 0rder is using Cyber Sleuth assets and more imprtantly for this obviously Digimon Linkz is using them too. Being a 3D smartphone game Linkz was developed in Unity, one of the most popuar engines for games like this. One of Unity's big strengths is that games can easily be ported to many platforms which of course also extends to the assets. When Linkz loads a Digimon it gets it from a server as compressed .unity3D files like this one.
    With the the right tools it's possible to easily decompress the textures and models and convert them to another format.
    Initially there were 240 Digimon in the game, just as many Digimon as there are in Cyber Sleuth (when it came out) but by now we're up to 279 models as new Digimon have been added to linkz, some from Next 0rder, others seemingly exclusive to Linkz (for now) and even models from the Upcoming game "Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth: Hacker's Memory".
    This archive is regularly updated as new models are released.

    You can download the entire package here:

    http://www.mediafire.com/download/a1k536392kd1t30


    (I have given my permission to others to upload these models onto VGResource for people only interested in individual models)

    Here's the list of everything you'll find in the main archive:

    Code:
    1.AeroV-dramon
    2.Agumon (Black)
    3.Agumon
    4.Alphamon
    5.Andiramon
    6.Andromon
    7.Angemon
    8.Angewomon
    9.Ankylomon
    10.Aquilamon
    11.Armadimon
    12.Arresterdramon
    13.AtlurKabuterimon
    14.Bakemon
    15.BanchouLeomon
    16.Barbamon
    17.Beelzebumon
    18.Belphemon RM
    19.Belphemon SM
    20.Betamon
    21.Birdramon
    22.BlackKingNumemon
    23.BlackMetalGarurumon
    24.BlackTailmon
    25.BlackWarGreymon
    26.BlueMeramon
    27.Boltmon
    28.Botamon
    29.Breakdramon
    30.Bubbmon
    31.Cannonbeemon
    32.Chaosdramon
    33.ChaosDukemon
    34.Cherubimon Virtue
    35.Chimairamon
    36.Chrysalimon
    37.Clockmon
    38.Coredramon Blue
    39.Coredramon Green
    40.Craniummon
    41.Cyberdramon
    42.Cyclomon
    43.DeathMeramon
    44.Demon
    45.Devimon
    46.Diablomon
    47.Dianamon
    48.Digitamamon
    49.DORUgamon
    50.DORUgremon
    51.DORUmon
    52.Dracomon
    53.Duftmon
    54.Duftmon Leopard Mode
    55.Dukemon
    56.Dukemon Crimson Mode
    57.Dynasmon
    58.EBEmon
    59.Elecmon
    60.Etemon
    61.Examon
    62.Falcomon
    63.Fladramon
    64.Gabumon
    65.Gabumon Black
    66.Gaioumon
    67.Gaiuomon (Mutation)
    68.Galgomon
    69.Gankoomon
    70.Gaogamon
    71.Gaomon
    72.Garudamon
    73.Garurumon
    74.Garurumon Black
    75.Gazimon
    76.Gekomon
    77.Geogreymon
    78.Geremon
    79.Gigadramon
    80.Goburimon
    81.GoldNumemon
    82.Gomamon
    83.Gotsumon
    84.GrandLocomon
    85.GranKuwagamon
    86.GrappuLeomon
    87.Greymon
    88.Greymon Virus
    89.Groundramon
    90.Growmon
    91.Guardromon
    92.Guilmon
    93.Gumdramon
    94.Hackmon
    95.Hagurumon
    96.Hawkmon
    97.HerakleKabuterimon (Mutation)
    98.HerakleKabuterimon
    99.HiAndromon
    100.HolyAngemon
    101.Holydramon
    102.Hououmon
    103.IceDevimon
    104.Ikkakumon
    105.Imperialdramon DM
    106.Imperialdramon FM
    107.Imperialdramon PM
    108.Impmon
    109.Infermon
    110.Insekimon
    111.Jesmon
    112.Jijimon
    113.Justimon
    114.Jyureimon
    115.Kabuterimon
    116.KaratsukiNumemon
    117.Keramon
    118.Knightmon
    119.Koromon
    120.Kudamon
    121.Kuramon
    122.Kuwagamon
    123.Kuzuhamon
    124.Kyubimon
    125.LadyDevimon
    126.Lalamon
    127.Lavobomon
    128.Lavogaritamon
    129.Leomon
    130.Leviamon (Mutation)
    131.Leviamon
    132.Lilamon
    133.Lilimon
    134.Lilithmon
    135.Lopmon
    136.LordKnightmon
    137.Lotusmon
    138.Lucemon
    139.Lucemon FDM
    140.Lucemon SM
    141.MachGaogamon
    142.Magnamon
    143.Maicoomon
    144.Mamemon
    145.MarinAngemon
    146.Mastemon
    147.Megadramon
    148.MegaloFrowmon
    149.MegaSeadramon
    150.Meicrackmon
    151.Meramon
    152.MetalEtemon
    153.MetalGarurumon
    154.MetalGarurumon X
    155.MetalGreymon
    156.Metalgreymon Virus
    157.MetalMamemon
    158.MetalSeadramon
    159.MetalTyranomon
    160.Millenniumon
    161.Minervamon
    162.MirageGaogamon
    163.MirageGaogamon Burst Mode
    164.Mochimon
    165.Monzaemon
    166.Mugendramon
    167.Nanimon
    168.Nanomon
    169.Numemon
    170.Nyaromon
    171.Ofanimon
    172.Omegamon
    173.Omegamon Alter-B
    174.Omegamon Zwart
    175.Omegamon Zwart D
    176.OmegaShoutmon
    177.Ookuwamon
    178.Orgemon
    179.Otamamon
    180.Pagumon
    181.Paildramon
    182.Palmon
    183.Pandamon
    184.Panjyamon
    185.Patamon
    186.Peckmon
    187.Piccolomon
    188.PicoDevimon
    189.Piemon
    190.Pinochimon
    191.Piyomon
    192.PlatinumNumemon
    193.PlatinumScumon
    194.Plesiomon (Mutation)
    195.Plesiomon
    196.Plotmon
    197.Poyomon
    198.PrinceMamemon
    199.Pukamon
    200.Pumpmon
    201.Punimon
    202.Pyocomon
    203.Qilinmon
    204.Rapidmon
    205.Rapidmon Armor
    206.Ravmon
    207.Ravmon Burst Mode
    208.Renamon
    209.Reppamon
    210.RiseGreymon
    211.Rosemon
    212.Rosemon Burst Mode
    213.RustTyranomon
    214.SaberLeomon
    215.SaintGalgomon
    216.Sakuyamon (Mutation)
    217.Sakuyamon
    218.Scumon
    219.Seadramon
    220.Seraphimon
    221.Shakkoumon
    222.Shakomon
    223.ShineGreymon (Mutation)
    224.ShineGreymon
    225.ShineGreymon Burst Mode
    226.ShineGreymon Ruin Mode
    227.Shoutmon
    228.Silphymon
    229.Skullgreymon
    230.Slayerdramon
    231.Sleipmon
    232.Solarmon
    233.Sorcerymon
    234.Starmon
    235.Stingmon
    236.Sunflowmon
    237.Superstarmon
    238.Susanoomon
    239.Tailmon
    240.Tanemon
    241.Tankmon
    242.Taomon
    243.Tentomon
    244.Terriermon
    245.TigerVespamon
    246.Titamon
    247.Togemon
    248.Tokomon
    249.TonosamaGekomon
    250.ToyAgumon
    251.Tsukaimon
    252.Tsumemon
    253.Tunomon
    254.Tyranomon
    255.UlforceV-dramon
    256.V-dramon
    257.V-mon
    258.Vademon
    259.Vamdemon
    260.Vegiemon
    261.VenomVamdemon
    262.Vikemon
    263.Vobomon
    264.Volcanicdramon
    265.Wanyamon
    266.WarGreymon
    267.WarGreymon X
    268.Waspmon
    269.WereGarurumon
    270.WereGarurumon Black
    271.Whamon
    272.Wingdramon
    273.Wisemon
    274.Wizarmon
    275.Woodmon
    276.Wormmon
    277.XV-mon
    278.Yatagaramon
    279.Yggdrasil
    280.Yukidarumon
    281.Zubamon
    282.Zudomon
    Not sure what program to use to view the models? Here's a list of free software around the web that can open Collada 1.4 files:

    • MeshLab
    • Autodesk FBX Review
    • GLC_Player
    • O4C Viewer
    • open3mod
    • SketchUp Make

    ...if you want to view the more advanced effects on the models such as transparency and glows you will have to deal with more professional tools such as Blender.
    Last but not least it's also worth noting that Photoshop (not free but certainly... widespread), at least from CS6 and upwards can import .dae files as 3D layers.


    I noted earlier that the models are originally from Cyber Sleuth... but are they completely identical? The answer is yes, in terms of geometry but not in terms of textures.
    The current release combines the cyber Sleuth textures with the Linkz meshes, while the following analysis concerns the original textures used in linkz as well as the older release:

    Again most Digimon don't show any noticeable differences. There are however some more exceptions to that than there are for the identical meshes; Most Digimon come with a 512x512 Texture which I assume is the texture resolution for the Vita but some digimon use lower textures instead, a good example are the adult forms of the tamers partner Digimon, Growmon Kyubimon and Gargomon who use not 512x512 textures but 512x256 textures... I assume that originally that, like some other Digimon they were originally using two textures with one 512x512 texture file and another file at 256x256... but when it came to porting those textures both were combined into one texture and the main 512x512 texture was halved in resolution leading to worse results. So ironically those Digimon that had more detail than most in CS have for the same reason less detail now.
    But here is where things get interesting; Earlier I mentioned Next 0rder using Cyber Sleuth assets... but it's not always using the Cyber sleuth versions of the textures. I took a look at some Next 0rder footage and to my surprise the Growmon and Kyubimon models use the incredibly shitty looking downscaled texture we get from the linkz files. This is very surprising since one of the main Tamers in Next 0rder has a Guilmon partner who eventually evolves into a Growmon... so Growmon is on screen a lot and you would think they would make sure that such an important character would actually look good. And this is not a matter of Platforms; I suspected at one point that textures looked better in Cyber Sleuth because I was looking at PS4 footage, but that wasn't the case even the vita uses the better textures, so why Next 0rder isn't using them is a mystery to me. However not all models in Next 0rder are identical to Cyber Sleuth either: Angewomon who in addition to being low poly in linkz also uses a downscaled 256x256 texture in that game has a better texture and mesh in Next 0rder... in other words things are all over the place.
    Another thing to note about Linkz textures is that they are compressed in the pvr format with a maximum file size of 170KB... since I don't know how the PSV textures are compressed I don't know if that makes a difference (they could use exactly the same method) but as my only point of reference, since I don't have a vita or PS4, were youtube videos which of course have a tendency to be heavily compressed... to make definitive statements about some of the textures I'd need to take a look at some uncompressed screenshots from the game.
    But as far as I can tell the general rule is that if the textures are 512x512 they are probably identical to Cyber sleuth textures but beware of any main textures (not textures for secondary regions like wings or weapons) that are below that resolution as those were probably downscaled.
    Again, things could change in updates and I'll know when things change.

    I guess you could say this is my Easter present for the community or something like that, although it's actually mostly coincidence.
    Last edited by Theigno; 08-11-2017 at 08:23 AM.

  2. #2
    I come from the net Shadow Shinji's Avatar
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    This is huge! Thanks Theigno I don't know anything about computing or 3D and maybe it's a silly question but, why all the models appear with its arms raised in that way?

  3. #3
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    Oh Linkz models already? Awesome. Useful for drawings. Thx.

  4. #4
    Junior Commander saifors's Avatar
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    Wait, the models are the exact same as in Cyber Sleuth for the most? I thought they'd have lower res textures and slightly lower poly count to avoid frame drops on a non-game dedicated platform on the majority of them.

    @Shadow Shinji: That's done so "bones" can be placed in them to get "rigs" which allow devs to animate limb by limb
    Last edited by saifors; 03-27-2016 at 12:12 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by saifors View Post
    Wait, the models are the exact same as in Cyber Sleuth for the most? I thought they'd have lower res textures and slightly lower poly count to avoid frame drops on a non-game dedicated platform on the majority of them.
    You have to remember the platform, as developed for.

    The models and everything were designed for the Playstation Vita. Last I remember hearing, the Vita was a quad core ARM Cortex A9 that defaults to 333MHz, but can go up to 444MHz (although numbers have been tossed around at random that go up to 2GHz, the 444 number seems the most consistent and up to date.)


    Modern phones by and away are more powerful than this, dedicated game players or not. theigno has mentioned elsewhere that he has a Galaxy S3, which came out 4 years ago. It has a few variants, but it's weakest variant was 1.5ghz dual core, and it's strongest was 1.4ghz quad core.

    The Vita no doubt had tons of customizing done to it's hardware for gaming, but even if you look at last year's equivalent model to theignos (the S6 instead of this years S7) you have quite a bit of power (an octacore- quad 2.1ghz and quad 1.5ghz.)
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    Completely digital MasterOfTartarus's Avatar
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    if only i had the slightest idea about bones i could make some fun stuff with those in gta

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    Junior Commander ShikaSS's Avatar
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    As always, Theigno delivers hard. Thank you so much for sharing these.

    Did Lilimon's model also get downscaled for LinkZ? Seeing her battle, I get this feeling she looks a lot less detailed than on Cyber Sleuth.

    EDIT: I wonder what kind of use will Yggdrasil have on LinkZ?
    Last edited by ShikaSS; 03-27-2016 at 06:23 PM.

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    The new mysterious digimon didn't appear in Linkz yet?

  9. #9
    Super Moderator Theigno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShikaSS View Post
    Did Lilimon's model also get downscaled for LinkZ? Seeing her battle, I get this feeling she looks a lot less detailed than on Cyber Sleuth.
    It wasn't. Models might look worse in linkz (as well as in 3D editors) because of less sophisticated shading compared to Cyber Sleuth. Cyber Sleuth used a lot of great looking shaders to make the models look smoother and more detailed than they actually are (most games do this to maximize performance), they had a nice soft shader for skin, some great looking specular effects for metal, a softened cel-shading esque shader for the shadows etc... and these shaders is the main thing that was compromised for linkz, which only uses very rudimentary shaders in comparison.

    To illustrate the impact of shading take a look at this:


    On the left we have the Linkz Lilimon model with completely flat shading as well as the standard plastic specular that many 3D editors add to a material by default. It looks quite bad, you can see all the edges... on the right we have the same model with a phong shader applied which interpolates the shading of the model based on the angle of the individual edges. This makes the model look smooth, and rounder it's generally closer to how it looked in CS even though the geometry hasn't changed. Of course if you actually want actual smoother edges for things like an animation with close up shots you'll have to smooth out the actual model by subdividing the polygons which is a bit of work since the subdivision needs to be weighted because don't want to smooth everything the same way (lots of fan animations end up looking like crap when they just use game models unmodified)


    Also, with Cyber Sleuth and I believe Next 0rder to it's actually quite easy to directly compare the model geometry because of the evolution sequences:

    Image Thumbnail (custom)

    When a Digimon evolves it will show the wireframe of its model (but still using occlusion culling so you don't see the frame on the back). Rendering out the Lilimon model in wireframe mode and comparing it to the model shown in the evolution sequence you'll see that there isn't really a difference. The geometry on the wings, the skirt, the arms the, the feet and every section that is clearly visible is identical. It would be even clearer if the right image wasn't crappy youtube quality of course... so if you own cybersleuth and you want to compare the models you can pretty much do a better job than me by evolving/de-evolving your digimon in the game and taking a screenshot of the wireframe part of the evo sequence, which would get you a clearer comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Shinji View Post
    This is huge! Thanks Theigno I don't know anything about computing or 3D and maybe it's a silly question but, why all the models appear with its arms raised in that way?
    That's the T-pose that you will get most models in before they are animated. When you want to animate a character you have to pretty much "draw" the bones and joints onto the model... If the limbs were bent or in whatever random position figuring out where which bone would need to go would just get too confusing but if they are in a uniform pose all limbs extended, all joints in a neutral position it makes things much easier. It's also a symmetrical pose which is also important when modelling the model in the first place... with a symmetric model and pose you can pretty much save half of your effort by modelling one half of the model and simply mirroring it to the other side. If there are some asymmetries on a model (like Metalgreymon's Trident arm) you can be pretty sure that the asymmetrical parts were applied in a second step to a originally fully symmetrical base model done in the way described above.


    And talking about bones (especially it also came up a second time)... It is actually possible to export the models in a rigged state with a bit of extra work.
    I decided not to export the rigs because .obj doesn't support bones so if you want that and maybe even things like weight values of the joints I would have to export it in a more advanced file format that would lower the accessibility of the models significantly, in contrast to the near universal compatibility of obj. Also the texture stuff was enough work by itself...

    Anyway, the unity3D files do contain information about the bones, or rather they have skin deformers that can be converted back into bones (there are also models for the different animation state that will result in bones for the first frame of each animation since actual animations can't be exported with any tool I'm aware of). However the deformations itself break on export so while the bones are exported correctly the actual model will look like someone put it through a pasta machine. This is fixable... I won't go into too much detail, since the exact steps that need to be taken probably vary by software and most people probably won't have the exact same professional modelling program I happen to use, but it comes down to that you need to discard the deformations and reset the model into its original binding pose (which is the T-pose of course) to realign it with the bones. so that will only work with neutral model file and not with any of the posed ones since with poses the bones won't align with the model after resetting it and that would defeat the entire point of the exercise.
    Anyway you can use a program called "unity studio" to extract the Unity3D bundle files and export the standard model with deformations and bones into an .fxb file. opening that file in a 3d program and resetting the screwed up deformation will get you the model of the Digimon with all the bones it had in the game. To texture the model you could simply import my extracted texture files (and the area selections if there is more than one texture, it should work since the geometry is the same).
    Of course the rig is only very basic. You still need to do the more advanced animation stuff by yourself like IK chains and joint limits and all the other stuff that keeps the limbs from just flailing and spasming all over the place.

    And for reference here is the order of the unity3D files on the server (the index number is always three digits so for example the file name for model number 12 is http://icdn.s3.api.digimonlinkz.channel.or.jp/asset/AB_DATA/ANDROID/1.0.3/Characters/Characters_012_GO.unity3d?1 )
    Code:
    0.Kuramon
    1.Tokomon
    2.PlatinumScumon
    3.BlackTailmon
    4.Vegiemon
    5.Peckmon
    6.Meramon
    7.Yukidarumon
    8.Leomon
    9.Reppamon
    10.Waspmon
    11.AtlurkAbuterimon
    12.Nyaromon
    13.Andiramon
    14.Andromon
    15.Insekimon
    16.Infermon
    17.Vamdemon
    18.AeroV-dramon
    19.Etemon
    20.Angewomon
    21.ookuwamon
    22.Garudamon
    23.Pagumon
    24.Gigadramon
    25.Cannonbeemon
    26.GrappLeomon
    27.Cyberdramon
    28.Shakkoumon
    29.Jyureimon
    30.Silphymon
    31.Superstamon
    32.SkullGreymon
    33.Zudomon
    34.Pyocomon
    35.Taomon
    36.Qilinmon
    37.Digitamamon
    38.DeathMeramon
    39.ShogunGekomon
    40.DORUgremon
    41.Knigthmon
    42.Nanomon
    43.Paildramon
    44.Panjamon
    45.Pukamon
    46-Pumpmon
    47.Piccolomon
    48.BlackKingNumemon
    49.BlueMeramon
    50.Vademon
    51.Whamon
    52.HolyAngemon
    53.MachGaogamon
    54.Mamemon
    55.MegaSeadramon
    56.Mochimon
    57.Megadramon
    58.MegaloGrowmon
    59.Metalgreymon
    60.MetalGreymon Blue
    61.MetalTyranomon
    62.MetalMamemon
    63.Monzaemon
    64.Yatagaramon
    65.RiseGreymon
    66.Lilamon
    67.Wanyamon
    68.Rapidmon
    69.Lilimon
    70.Lucemon
    71.LadyDevimon
    72.WereGarurumon
    73.WereGarurumon Black
    74.Wisemon
    75.Alphamon
    76.UlforceV-dramon
    77.EBEmon
    78.Agumon
    79.Imperialdramon
    80.Imperialdramon Fighter Mode
    81.Vikemon
    82.VenomVamdemon
    83.WarGreymon
    84.Examon
    85.Ofanimon
    86.Gaioumon
    87. ChaosDukemon
    88.Gankoomon
    89.Agumon Black
    90.Kuzuhamon
    91.GranKuwagamon
    92.GrandLocomon
    93.Craniummon
    94.Cherubimon Virtue
    95.Saberleomon
    96.Sakuyamon
    97.Jesmon
    98.ShineGreymon
    99.Justimon
    100.Armadimon
    101.Sleipmon
    102.Seraphimon
    103.SaintGalgomon
    104.TigerVespamon
    105.Titamon
    106.Dianamon
    107.Diablomon
    108.Demon
    109.Dukemon
    110.Dynasmon
    111.Bubmon
    112.Impmon
    113.Duftmon
    114.HiAndromon
    115.Barbamon
    116.Banchouleomon
    117.Piemon
    118.Pinochimon
    119.Platinumnumemon
    120.BlackWarGreymon
    121.PrinceMamemon
    122.Plesiomon
    123.Elecmon
    124.HerakleKabuterimon
    125.Beelzebumon
    126.Belphemon Sleep Mode
    127.Hououmon
    128.Holydramon
    129.Boltmon
    130.Mastemon
    131.MarinAngemon
    132.Minervamon
    133.MirageGaogamon
    134.Otamamon
    135.Mugendramon
    136.MetalEtemon
    137.MetalGarurumon
    138.MetalGarurumon Black
    139.MetalSeadramon
    140.RustTyranomon
    141.Leviamon
    142.Lilithmon
    143.Ravmon
    144.LordKnightmon
    145.Gaomon
    146.Rosemon
    147.Lotusmon
    148.Imperialdramon PM
    149.Omegamon
    150.Omegamon Zwart
    151.Duftmon Leopard Mode
    152.Belphemon Rage Mode
    153.Lucemon SM
    154.Fladramon
    155.Magnamon
    156.Gazimon
    157.Rapidmon Armor
    158.Yggdrasil
    159.Gabumon
    160.Gabumon Black
    161.Guilmon
    162.Kudamon
    163.Keramon
    164.Punimon
    165.Gotsumon
    166.Goburimon
    167.Gomamon
    168.Shakomon
    169.Solarmon
    170.Terriermon
    171.Tentomon
    172.ToyAgumon
    173.DORUmon
    174.Hagurumon
    175.Botamon
    176.Patamon
    177.Hackmon
    178.Palmon
    179.PicoDevimon
    180.Piyomon
    181.Falcomon
    182.V-mon
    183.Plotmon
    184.Betamon
    185.Hawkmon
    186.Poyomon
    187.Lalamon
    188.Lucemon
    189.Renamon
    190.Lopmon
    191.Wormmon
    192.IceDevimon
    193.Aquilamon
    194.Ankylomon
    195.Ikkakumon
    196.Wizarmon
    197.Koromon
    198.Woodmon
    199.XV-mon
    200.Angemon
    201.Orgemon
    202.Guardromon
    203.Gaogamon
    204.Kabuterimon
    205.KaratsukiNumemon
    206.Gargomon
    207.Garurumon
    208.Tanemon
    209.Garurumon Black
    210.Kyubimon
    211.Growmon
    212.Chrysalimon
    213.Greymon
    214.Greymon Blue
    215.Clockmon
    216.Kuwagamon
    217.Gekomon
    218.Geremon
    219.Tunomon
    220.GoldNumemon
    221.Cyclonemon
    222.Sunflowmon
    223.Seadramon
    224.GeoGreymon
    225.Scumon
    226.Starmon
    227.Stingmon
    228.Sorcerimon
    229.Tankmon
    230.Tsumemon
    231.Tyranomon
    232.Tailmon
    233.Devimon
    234.Togemon
    235.DORUgamon
    236.Nanimon
    237.Numemon
    238.Birdramon
    239.Bakemon
    240.V-dramon
    Last edited by Theigno; 03-28-2016 at 12:59 PM.

  10. #10
    Red shirt
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    60
    Wow this is amazing!
    I am not sure I really understand how these are used in Next Order. They are the same models but lower resolution and different shading? Maybe more bones too

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