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Thread: What are your Digimon headcanons?

  1. #421
    I come from the net Inpu's Avatar
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    Unless the Xros Wars manga had involvement by someone' who worked heavily on Adventure I wouldn't count it as Adventure is canon.
    The manga was licensed as an official story by Bandai.

    From a logic standpoint Digimon who died in the real world have no primary village to go to.
    This fantheory was not licensed as an official story by Bandai.

    If we're privileging fanon over the canon that disputes it...

    Speaking of during the dark masters arc where did the dead Digimon data go while the Primary Village was poisoned by Piedmon's evil?
    Probably got stuck in the Dark Area, like the null canon says all data does. Possibly Piedmon did something to that universe's Anubimon to prevent him from being able to forward the eggs?

  2. #422
    I come from the net Seymour Butz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inpu View Post
    The manga was licensed as an official story by Bandai.
    So what.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inpu View Post
    If we're privileging fanon over the canon that disputes it...
    There is no canonicity in anime, and even if there were, ×ros Wars wouldn’t be part of Adventure’s.

  3. #423
    I come from the net Inpu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour Butz View Post
    So what.
    Normally? Nothing. When someone says "this evidence isn't canon enough" and then immediately expands upon that with "according to my fan theory"...then something.

    If we're discussing fantheories, and how interesting they are, the more the merrier.

    Personally, I think the strongest evidence against "Digimon who die in the real world are condemned to an eternal death/half-life from which they can never escape" is that...fuck, if I was a Chosen Child and thought that was even slightly true, I would never let my partner Digimon come to the real world unless they were under heavy guard. Much less if I was a wild Digimon who didn't really have any goal in being there. I would avoid "world where the thing I do twice a year will condemn me to eternal damnation" like the plague.

    Hell, if I was a self-preservation-obsessed Vamdemon, and knew that the worst that can happen to me in the Digital World is that I get stuck in the Dark Area and have to build a fortress there until I'm strong enough to break out, I would absolutely not choose "go to the eternal death world where prophecy says I'm gonna get lit, to chase down the kid that prophecy says is gonna do it." Nuh uh. Make them come to me, enjoy what time I have left, that is a terrible freaking gamble. Hell, I don't care about my minion's safety, so if the seven children not prophesied to be able to stop me are really scary enough for me to flee my stronghold, I'd still send minions out into the real world to get ganked (by my other minion's hands if necessary), see if they respawn at Primary Village, and immediately flee home if it turns out they're stuck. (Or if I do get stuck as a ghost, I'd certainly arrange my plans for my next set of minions so that they aren't a single point of failure also.) "Real World is a place which prevents Digimon from ever being reborn" turns Vamdemon from a pragmatic though risk-taking villain to a bigger, more self-destructive idiot than the DigiXros of Sukamon, Chuumon, and Numemon.

    When confronted with the pieces of evidence that that fantheory relies on, none of the characters actually respond in a manner that indicates it's a plausible concern.
    Last edited by Inpu; 07-26-2015 at 07:32 PM.

  4. #424
    I come from the net Seymour Butz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inpu View Post
    If we're discussing fantheories, and how interesting they are, the more the merrier.
    We are, so unless one of those theories flies directly in the face of the specific series it’s addressing, establishing a canonicity hierarchy strikes me as ludicrous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inpu View Post
    When confronted with the pieces of evidence that that fantheory relies on, none of the characters actually respond in a manner that indicates it's a plausible concern.
    This is a considerably more salient objection.

  5. #425
    I come from the net Inpu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour Butz View Post
    We are, so unless one of those theories flies directly in the face of the specific series it’s addressing, establishing a canonicity hierarchy strikes me as ludicrous.
    Which was my point, yes.

  6. #426
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    But there is no actual canon stating otherwise.


    As far as your argument for why it doesn't make sense well what choice do the kids and Digimon have. Would they even know better?




    Gennai: You have to fetch 8th child before Myotismon kills him or her


    Digidestined: Our Digimon might stayed dead in the real world, just let the 8th child die and Myotismon can take over the earth. Not our problem, aight?

    Partner Digimon might be exempt from needing a primary village since we
    actually saw Patamon be reborn on the spot instead of going directly to primary village don't pass go don't collect 200 Digi dollars.



    As for Myotismon; Myotismon dying in the Digital World means banishment to the dark world but dying in the real world means lingering as a ghost and just feed on human energy to come back stronger.

    Considering there was a huge opportunity to return to the Digital World with the next to none existent barrier and he elected to be Oikawa's headmate we have good evidence the real world has some appeal to Myotismon.
    Last edited by DontStopPataPata; 07-27-2015 at 06:59 AM.

  7. #427
    I come from the net Inpu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontStopPataPata View Post
    But there is no actual canon stating otherwise.
    There is officially released material stating otherwise. If you don't consider it applicable, that's fine, but it makes little sense to be setting an arbitrary barrier for canonicity and then immediately following it up with something even less canon.
    Don't quibble about canonicity unless you're going to respect the standards you set.

    As far as your argument for why it doesn't make sense well what choice do the kids and Digimon have. Would they even know better?
    A lot of choice in the points I outlined, and given what we're told they were up to, they would absolutely know better.
    To give a more specific example -- if the Wizardmon event is meant to be the primary evidence that the real world traps Digimon there (something that Gennai or the Digimon left in the Digital World would have noticed after none of the Digimon that died in the Human World came back) then A Very Digi Christmas would not have happened -- unless we're claiming that the humans don't care about their Digimon. Bringing your Digimon in for self-defense -- I'd expect more thought given to protecting the Digimon, but okay. Bringing them in for slumber parties -- hell no. If you want to have a slumber party and half of the invitees live in what is metaphorically Gehennah, you have them come to you.
    And then, after the MaloMyotismon event (the other main piece of evidence) -- I would definitely not be bringing my Digimon back to work alongside me as a detective apprehending criminals. I would absolutely not risk damning my soulmate to a hideous undeath because I was too chickenshit to just call for human backup.
    Gennai: You have to fetch 8th child before Myotismon kills him or her
    Digidestined: Our Digimon might stayed dead in the real world, just let the 8th child die and Myotismon can take over the earth. Not our problem, aight?
    I already addressed this.
    Partner Digimon might be exempt from needing a primary village since we actually saw Patamon be reborn on the spot instead of going directly to primary village don't pass go don't collect 200 Digi dollars.
    According to the theory, wild Digimon would definitely not be exempt, right? So if over the course of three years, the forces of good have very good evidence between the missing Pumpkinmon, Gotsumon, Wizardmon, etc. to believe that Digimon who die in the Real World are turned into eternally suffering data wraiths, wouldn't they have mentioned that to the Digimon during the World Tour?
    If the theory is true, you'd expect that to be the first word out of their mouths to the wild Digimon: "We know you're not a bad Digimon, we know you don't want to suffer eternally, so just come with us and we can get you back to the Digital World where you're safe." That's way more scary than "we'll cook and eat you", honestly, which is about as hardcore as they got.
    As for Myotismon; Myotismon dying in the Digital World means banishment to the dark world but dying in the real world means lingering as a ghost and just feed on human energy to come back stronger.
    "Banishment to the dark world" doesn't mean so much when you're already working for the guy who took control of the dark world. Presumably, he brings you back through the Wall of Fire or Dark Whirlpool, badabing badaboom.
    Considering there was a huge opportunity to return to the Digital World with the next to none existent barrier and he elected to be Oikawa's headmate we have good evidence the real world has some appeal to Myotismon.
    The only appeal we were ever told (at least from what I've seen, maybe the novel gives him another) about was that he was trying to snuff out the eighth child before the child could become strong enough to snuff him out. We are not given any other reason for him to be in the real world. Furthermore, we are never given any hint that he planned for his resurrection as VenomVamdemon -- he seems as distraught and surprised as you would suspect when Angewomon kills him.
    He lucked out, managing to spend three years as the backseat driver to a person he held in contempt, relying on incompetent, barely loyal minions to try and engineer a way for him to get back home just to regain his body. He totally Voldemort-ed it.
    The claim that he intended to be slain and try to come back as BelialVamdemon all along very, very much needs some kind of evidence from the series.

    To clarify:
    By Adventure 02, both the Chosen Children and Vamdemon's forces can be assumed to have access to any available evidence that Digimon who die in the Real World are trapped there as data ghosts.
    *The Chosen Children don't take steps to protect their partners as if this were true.
    *The Chosen Children continue to invite their Digimon to spend time in the Real World on non-essential missions, or even for sleepovers.
    *The Chosen Children don't use this information as leverage to negotiate with wild Digimon who enter the human world.
    *The chosen children don't seem to be afraid of creating eternal poltergeists that will forever haunt the Real World when they are forced to dispose of evil Digimon in the Real World -- basically, no one is afraid of creating more poltergeists like Wizarmon, who managed to be disruptive despite being a good guy.
    *Gennai does not remind the children of this information in case they forgot, urging them to do everything in their power to return the escaped Digimon to the Digital World alive.
    *Myotismon does not encourage his minions to protect themselves accordingly so that he does not lose them before their task is complete.

  8. #428
    I come from the net Seymour Butz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inpu View Post
    Which was my point, yes.
    No, your point was this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Inpu View Post
    There is officially released material stating otherwise. If you don't consider it applicable, that's fine, but it makes little sense to be setting an arbitrary barrier for canonicity and then immediately following it up with something even less canon.
    It makes all the sense in the world. The work being interpreted in the fan theory at issue is Digimon Adventure. It is not Digimon ×ros Wars. The attempt to formulate a fan theory is bound by a desire to incorporate it organically into the themes, lore and mechanics of the work being interpreted. This in no way includes incorporating other works that happen to feature the same characters in another universe in another story written by another author twelve years after the fact — no, not even if they slap ‘Bandai’ on it. You might as well object that someone’s fan theory regarding Re:Digitize is eccentric for contradicting the back story of Tekken. ‘Canon’ is an inappropriate and oft-misused term for expressing this sentiment, but we all know that’s what the man meant.
    Last edited by Seymour Butz; 07-27-2015 at 02:59 PM.

  9. #429
    Junior Commander AliceKaninchenbau's Avatar
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    I still stand my opinion that the Xros Comic is to the Digimon franchise's canon the same as Kingdom Hearts is to Disney and Final Fantasy. It can be used as a legit way to fill a hole in the lore and/or plot, but until Kakudou or someone else states it as Adventure-canon, yeah I merely see it as an official AU fanfic. (Kind of the same reason to why I try to stay away from post-Zero Two official material from Bandai to fill holes in Adventure- yes it can work, but whatever answer the writers had to these questions while making Adventure, well, I highly doubt these were it. Hence why I'm hesistant to apply later Dark Area-lore etc into Adventure and prefer try to find answers by only relying on material from the creators from that time preferably.)

    As for why not a single character brought up the possible "Die in Human World, get stuck in Limbo" thing:

    Gennai probably didn't bring it up for the same reason(s) he never brought up anything else to the Chosen. Telling them about certain things could cause them immense stress (they are 11 year olds) that could be way too hard for them to handle. Gennai keeping quiet about that risk (especially when the Chosen wouldn't want their partners to die even when they could be reborn, like, just because rebirth exists doesn't mean you'll be A-OK with them dying, so it's not like the Chosen would take ridiculous risks on without giving a damn) could've been on purpose for the Chosen's mental health (not to mention that he might've had memory issues because of Piemon's curse but that's a whole different discussion). The Chosen probably never brought it up because they didn't realize the risk (too busy with finding the 8th Chosen etc)(I have no comment on Zero Two related stuff because the season was a trainwreck in writing and /angry mumbling). Also I do want to suggest the idea that nobody might've known about the risk, since as far as I know, no Digimon had been to the Human World and died there until Adventure, so yeah, the risk could've been something nobody simply thought of.
    As for Vamdemon? Eh, if I remember correct those official artbooks or whatever mentioned that Vamdemon's likes included the energy of humans (women specifically?), and Vamdemon did state that it was his "destiny to unite the Human and Digital World and become its rightful ruler". Considdering how full of himself Vamdemon was, yeah, I can totally see him just not give a damn about any of the risks. He was ridiculously OP (only true danger/weakness was the Holy Powers of a Perfect-Level Angel and sunlight) and he knew it, so Vamdemon going to the Human World just to get rid of one of the only two Digimon that could harm him seems perfectly in-character. Not to mention that it really was the only thing he could do. The Chosen themselves held the power to Perfect-Evolution, so the only way to make sure the partner Digimon could never evolve that far would be to kill the Chosen (Vamdemon was full of himself so not killing Tailmon and making her watch Hikari die does seem to be in-character if you ask me, even when it is a really arrogant move). Destroying the Placebo-Crest (if even possible for a Perfect?) long before getting to the Human World could hurt Vamdemon more than anything, not to mention that I don't think the prophecy said anything about the birth of VenomVamdemon having to happen in the Human World? Like I'm pretty sure the requirements could be met in the Digital World too (unless 'hitobito' can only refer to humans and not other sentient beings).

  10. #430
    I come from the net Seymour Butz's Avatar
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    Kakudō doesn’t have unlimited licence to add to or alter the Adventure canon either, regardless of the fact that he wrote it. It is a discrete work and while his involvement with it necessarily means that any ideas he develops after the fact are much more likely to fit the tone and mythos with minimal disruption, whether they actually do is a determination to be made by each individual fan. The only thing that should be regarded as sacrosanct are clarifying statements made after the fact in direct reference to what something in Adventure was supposed to be at the time of the initial writing — and even then only if it is cleared of the suspicion of faulty memory, which has produced some legendary and nonsensical retcons in fiction over the years.

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