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View Full Version : Methods of actually playing these games (LackeyCCG plugin, perhaps?)



ZeedMillenniummon
02-05-2012, 09:55 AM
So, I was wondering if any way to play any of the Digimon card games short of having actual Digimon cards in real life. I mean, as you can imagine in many places it's nearly impossible to find these cards nowadays, and even harder to find other people in real life who would be interested in playing with them anyway. So, in particular I was wondering if there was any way to play Digimon cards online...although I sort of doubt there is, because I have made efforts to find such a thing but have not found any as of yet. (I would like to be proven wrong, though)

Now, if there isn't yet...I do have something I would like to point out to you guys. There is this thing called LackeyCCG (http://www.lackeyccg.com/about.html), which is a free platform that you can play various card games like Magic or Yugioh on via installable plugins. Plugins exist for dozens of card games, if not more. Why do I bring this up? Well, because the plugins themselves are made by people who are interested in playing those card games in the first place - and currently none exist for any of the Digimon ones (well, aside from a broken first-format Digimon plugin that fails to install properly because some of the files for it are gone, and it will likely never be fixed since the last update for it was in like 2003 or something). Anyway, in other words if people on this forum are interested in making a plugin for one or more of the Digimon formats on Lackey, it is perfectly possible to do. Heck, this very site already has a card database filled with high quality scans that is none to shabby, so having that around is already a great starting point.

The Lackey site even has a tutorial on how to make plugins for it (http://lackeyccg.com/tutorialplugininfo.html)

From what I can tell there is a little bit of slightly complicated work involved, and I know I myself probably would not have the skills to work on this (heck, or the *time*, even - college is a killer), but...I guess all I'm really trying to accomplish is to get the message out here. I would be delighted to see at least one of the official Digimon card games being playable online, and I'm sure I can't be the only one who thinks so. So if anyone with actual skills sees this idea and is interested...then that would be awesome. If not then I completely understand, given that I came up with this idea myself but then am too lame to do anything more than that. :P

TMS
02-05-2012, 10:07 AM
It would be interesting, though I feel like I should let you know that LackeyCCG is very hard to work with. The programming might be possible for someone well-versed in that sort of thing, but the interface is really terrible.

ZeedMillenniummon
02-05-2012, 10:18 AM
Well, if you are referring to the interface while actually playing games on Lackey, I guess our opinions differ in that regard; I've used it myself to play Magic and Yugioh with my friends and found it not too difficult to adapt to. But regardless really the only reason I brought up Lackey in particular is because it's the first thing that came to mind. I'm sure there are other similar programs out there too - the purpose of this thread is not necessarily limited to just making a Lackey plugin, but rather...it's about finding some means of playing the Digimon card games online. Lackey just seems like a good example of a possible means of doing this, but if there's anything better then by all means that should be what is used.

CyberDramon
02-05-2012, 11:24 PM
There are many online ccg programs, but all of them require some coding knowledge, or for a person to tear down different game's patch/plug-in and learn from it.

However, I seriously doubt that goc or rianmon would give permission for this site's scans to be used in something like that, because it would technically be copyright infringement (illegal) in intent, since it would be meant to replace playing the physical game. (Simply scanning cards is illegal, because it's copying copyrighted material, but it's not designed as a replacement for buying cards to play the game).

So if someone wants to do this type of thing, they'd have to get different scans.

That being said, isn't talking about this against board rules?

http://withthewill.net/index.php?topic=671.msg45096#msg45096

MarcFBR
02-06-2012, 12:04 AM
I don't recall if we ever decided if it counted on emulation of card games.

Haven't decided which way to go.

ZeedMillenniummon
02-06-2012, 09:53 AM
I must say I'd be severely disappointed if this was seen as breaking said rules. I mean, the only way such a thing would even harm the creators of the card game would maybe be if it contained scans of cards that are still being actively printed - and even then any effect that would have would be extremely minimal, as I'll explain later. The years and years worth of past cards that are out there? Bandai doesn't make any money off of them anymore, whether you buy them from some guy on ebay or if you play around with scans of them on the internet. So I guess if you really wanted to be safe you could just avoid using any cards that are still being circulated commercially, but honestly, is it really *that* much of a concern? To use the examples of Yugioh and Magic again, those are internationally-played games, and sometimes their Lackey plugins get updated within days of new cards/sets coming out - yet this seems to pose no great threat to their sales or anything. Now, look at the Digimon card game, which has been Japan-only for years now. I'm pretty sure that some random westerners playing games using scans of cards that were never marketed to them in the first place would not cause any real problems. Sure, you could argue that "well maybe some Japanese players might discover the [Lackey plugin/whatever else might be used to make playing these games online possible] and use it," but in the general scheme of things I highly doubt that would be too common of an occurrence, especially since like I said, much more "mainstream" card games get played on platforms like Lackey all the time but you don't hear that making any headlines.

Of course, arguing all this is a moot point if I'm the only one who thinks this way anyway. The goal of this thread was to see if there might be a general interest among people to try to pull together some way to play this card game with each other. But if the overall consensus turns out to be that it's somehow morally or legally wrong to pursue such a thing then I don't see that happening. It would be very sad if that were the case though, since no matter how you slice it you've got to admit: if you're not in Japan and you want to play the card game, the end result is that you will have to commit unimaginable time and effort scouring for ways just to get the cards you are looking for, let alone have someone else to actually play them with. The impracticality of it all is alone enough to ensure that next to no one in the western world plays it.

So yeah, in the end I guess it's your choice whether this is something worth pursuing, or if it's something to reject on principle. I just thought I would throw the idea out there and see what would come of it. (Since like I said before I'd be incapable of starting such a project on my own, for lack of the necessary skills - otherwise I'd have done so already myself)

TMS
02-06-2012, 10:28 AM
I have no moral objections to such a card game. Besides the programming, though, there will also be a difficulty in getting decent scans and translations of all the cards. The Card Terminal and Wikimon would help, but their card databases are far from complete. Hardly any of the non-Digimon cards have ever been translated.

Vande
02-06-2012, 10:47 AM
I know i was able to get the Option cards backed up, well for the ones Megchan translated at least. They are up on Starlight.

CyberDramon
02-06-2012, 04:58 PM
The problem is less about how it would hurt Bandai, and more about how Bandai could hurt whomever is doing this.

The law states that Bandai Japan is the legal copyright holder. Then there's the recent SOPA and PIPA bills, which almost allowed the U.S. government to put the Internet under martial law. Then there's ACTA, which Japan has already signed, and the U.S. wants to sign.

And the recent thing with MegaUpload.

Besides that, a few months ago, someone with a website, hosting illegally scanned comics as a 'library' site, was charged with a criminal offense. A criminal offense could mean jail time.

Just so that you know the risks. What's the probability of something like that happening? Not very big, I guess, for a canceled game from a foreign country. But if Bandai finds out, and wants to do something about it, they can.

And Bandai Japan didn't want Gundam War in the U.S., and probably didn't want the Digimon card game in the U.S. either. They tightly controlled the recent card games that they licensed to Bandai America.

ZeedMillenniummon
02-06-2012, 05:39 PM
While what you say is true, it doesn't seem like it would be any less likely to attract attention than having that wonderful card database on the web (which I might mention is the reason I found this community - it made me delighted to see that scans of this game existed online). So the way I see it not only would the risk be very small, but also it would not add any substantial degree to the risk already run just by having card scans, which as you said before are technically illegal as well.

The Megaupload takedown sucked, yeah, but if you notice the biggie there is that in that case money was being made via distributing commerical copyrighted material. Those high-profile types of "copyright infringers" are the ones that companies are mainly going to bother going after, because they are the ones perceived to be doing actual financial damage in what they do. So in other words, it doesn't seem like something to worry too much over.



And Bandai Japan didn't want Gundam War in the U.S., and probably didn't want the Digimon card game in the U.S. either. They tightly controlled the recent card games that they licensed to Bandai America.


As far as I heard the reason the Digimon card game stopped being exported to the US was due to it not selling well after a point. (As opposed to any other more personal reasons - they simply stopped selling it here because the US is not a viable market for the product) *Shrugs*

CyberDramon
02-06-2012, 05:55 PM
The Megaupload takedown sucked, yeah, but if you notice the biggie there is that in that case money was being made via distributing commerical copyrighted material. ... So in other words, it doesn't seem like something to worry too much over.
...
As far as I heard the reason the Digimon card game stopped being exported to the US was due to it not selling well after a point. (As opposed to any other more personal reasons - they simply stopped selling it here because the US is not a viable market for the product) *Shrugs*


The point I was getting at is that, if Bandai Japan wanted too, they might be able to get the U.S. authorities to arrest anyone in the U.S. who is infringing their copyright, if there's enough to charge them with a criminal offense.


Part of the reason that Digimon CCG didn't sell well in the American market was because of broken cards, messed up effects, and a lack of customer support in these issues. When Bandai America did make erratas to some of their cards, it was small things, like spelling errors, and changing the power of a Digi-Destined card, instead of the big issues that people were complaining about.

I sent in Lots of paperwork, detailing what was wrong, and making suggestions on how to fix it, until Bandai America asked me to stop, because it was costing them to much money sending all that paperwork to their lawyers. And when my suggestions Were used, most of the card effects were butchered.

At the time, I was the volunteer mod on the board, and ended up becoming de facto customer support. At one point, Bandai America gave me power to 'interpret' the rules anyway I wanted to, but I was not allowed to change the rules. They also gave permission for me to preview sets before they went to print. This was supposed to start with series 4. But I would only have 1 day to preview the cards before they were sent to print.

When the time came, I couldn't preview the set. Bandai Japan had sent the series to print before Bandai America had a chance to preview it. They also only gave Bandai America 1 day to preview the Gundam War sets before they went to print.

Read that paragraph carefully.

ZeedMillenniummon
02-06-2012, 09:00 PM
Mh...well, I was unaware you were an actual expert of some sort regarding the card game (or at least one of the incarnations of it), so as far as personal knowledge regarding this stuff goes you've surely got me beat and I can't argue with that. Really, I'll be perfectly honest here: I'm just someone who's been a Digimon fan since I was a child but never got a chance to play the cards. You see, I collected the cards long ago without ever learning how to play them back in the day. Then my life got busy for a long period of time sometime after the end of when season 3 aired on TV, and for awhile I had all but forgotten about Digimon. Years later I "rediscovered" my love of the franchise, and being a fan of many trading card games, thought I would get into the Digimon card game at that point too - however, it turned out that the cards I used to have had been given away by my family long ago - and furthermore it was at that time that I also found out that Digimon cards were pretty impossible to find anymore, even at trading card shops.

That was probably 2-3 years ago. Since then the Digimon card game has been a topic that makes me a little melancholy when I think about it. (Heh, even as an adult I get all sentimental over it - kinda silly, huh?) That's also why the card database's existence was such a pleasant surprise for me, since before that I wasn't even sure if interest in the game existed anywhere anymore. In any case...yeah, I guess this also explains why I care so much about this in the first place. I want some way to at least be able to try the card game, something I have not yet gotten the chance to ever do (whether it is actually worth the trouble or not). I have family members I keep in touch with online, and I use Lackey to play the card games we all used to enjoy together back when I lived with them in person. My lofty "dream" with this, I guess you could say, would be to get a method to play the game and then introduce those relatives to the Digimon card game too, so I could try it out with them. However on a grander scale I also know I'm not the only one who would benefit from such a thing...and I think it would be really cool to be a part of something that would allow more people on this side of the world to be able to give the cards a try. Whether or not it's plausible is another thing entirely - and finding that out is exactly the reason I made a thread about it.

I don't really have much else to say on the matter. I've stated my thought and my reasons for being interested in this, and I understand the things that you have said too. Now I just want to see if others around here are interested, or if this is not a project that would get anywhere any time soon.