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Thread: Digimon Adventure tri: Part 4 Loss Discussion

  1. #231
    Ain't got no mojo...
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    The "you're our friend" attitude, even though they only know her for a month, the constant and somewhat forced repetition of "Meiko and Meicoomon are our comrades, we've gotta help them!" in spite of the missing 02 kids, makes me dislike Meiko for the wrong reasons. She isn't a terrible character per se, but the way the other kids treat her, added to the sloppy writing / plotholes makes you wonder if she really was necessary as an addition to the plot...
    Last edited by Oki; 03-10-2017 at 06:23 PM.

  2. #232
    Completely digital NekoHaruko's Avatar
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    Yes, tri.'s glaring story issue probably does make it hard to like new characters when there are others seemingly tossed aside for the sake of convinience. I may have too much hope that Toei knows what it's doing. But tri. staff has shown me so far it's going somewhere with things. I just hope I'm not proven wrong. I really enjoyed Loss. It didn't focus on the love triangle, it gave Meiko her moments, and supplied us with a character arc for Maki for the next two movies.

    It gave us answers and put things out there to be more intrigued. I hope it's not too much to cram into two more movies..

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  3. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spongebond View Post
    I find Meiko boring because there is nothing that makes her special. It's hard to explain, but we had so many episodes with previous charaters we know each character has a spesific trait and role within the group. Meiko is just there. Taichi, is the brave leader. Yamato the second in command who butts heads with Taichi and is the bearer of friendship. Sora is like the Mother of the group, Koushiro/Izzy is our tech guy, who is basically the strategist etc. Every member has a designated role, this is mostly due to their crests explaining what they mean to the group, but Meiko IS JUST there. Being a plot device, now I get that is her role, but she has such a boring personality.
    I think the intention of Meiko addition was not bad idea. In fact, there are girls that have similar concept to Meiko in other anime series that handled very well and you will like them because of their developments: Does not have friends until she found her talents/special powers, The powers are dark/evil, Contribute larger after being convinced by friends.

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    It's really yet another Tri flaws again because of its Pace and Story Direction. It's understandable when people don't like Meiko because all her scenes so far are just drama/slice of life part in the movie. Meicoomon's position is also awkward, why don't just make her pure evil instead having berserk power that she can't control or need other antagonist to trigger? I don't think that all Digimon partners shouldn't be evil, because some Digimon games use human antagonist with partner (Well Ken and Oikawa screw this rule). Back when I watched Bakugan series, Hydranoid is perfectly evil but in the end get accepted in the group + creating good bond with Alice..

    Quote Originally Posted by NekoHaruko View Post

    I know this is a bit off topic, but did Takeru really have a purpose in Adventure other than the crybaby? I mean, he was only useful as the last resort if I remember correctly and Hikari was fully used as the plot device then too.

    I'm just relieved the new characters in tri. actually have more of a personality and not used for the sake of plot.
    Yeah Takeru was always being protected but then it's his development for zero to hero concept. He actually DOES NOT passive after Dark Masters Arc. Confession is really best part that he tries to protect everyone else by keeping Patamon away...

    The issue of new characters treatment is it's doubtful that last 2 movies will be enough to cover all of them. New characters in sequels are both needed and welcomed but leaving them half-finished development are not okay... It's happened in a lot of modern anime series and I don't like that, especially anime that adapted from Visual Novel Game and anything outside canon path is non-existent despite side character story can be fitted into canon path...

  4. #234
    Completely digital ShindoW's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Tetra Seleno;307346]
    Quote Originally Posted by ShindoW View Post
    a.) What else could the writers / producers have done to establish Meiko's character? I felt like she was more of an accessory or plot device in Reunion than an actual supporting character, so it was important for Determination to give her some spotlight to establish her arc throughout the series.

    b.) I would argue that Determination is the most important movie in terms of setup for Confession and Loss because the 'filler' activities of the onsen trip (especially the onsen trip) and the Cultural Festival establishes a lot of plot points that become very significant in later chapters, such as Meiko and Meicoomon's much more strained partnership in comparison to the other eight Chosen, properly introduces Maki to the audience, teases the nature of Daigo and Maki's shared history, and establishes them as foils to both each other as well as the Chosen Children, not to mention all of the allusions to Maki's ulterior motives.

    The two Ogremon incidents are about the only events in Determination that I concede are almost pure filler, because how irrelevant those incidents are to the climax of the movie and the bigger picture of the OVA. The fallout of the second attack is more consequential, but the first sequence, where Maki and Daigo's organization try to attack it on its own, is completely useless at advancing the narrative, since none of that ever comes up again.
    Let me offer my counter arguement.
    a)The problem I feel is the story focused on her relationships to other characters rather than who she is or what her real motivations are. All we get is "OMG Meicoomon! She's evil but I don't know why! Where did she go?!" :/ Then some scenes with her befriending the other girls, which IMO served to characterize Mimi more, which isn't that bad. The thing with Sora was dumb, but did show her talent towards her eventual career. Again, we learn more about the other characters... we learn Meiko was shy, but we already knew that. She stepped out of her comfort zone, sure, but the problem is I have NO REASON to give a crap. We need to feel some connection to a new character, which honestly, should have been set up in this movie, more than... whatever this was. It's like they skipped a step.
    b) Basically reitterates what I already said. It's good they teased us about Daigo and Maki--that's fine and good. That's what they should be doing with Meiko. Instead we get her in a slutty orange cheerleading outfit and whining about Meicoo.
    c)Ogremon was for nostalgia, but I feel they added to Mimi's personality and offered some action (the first half dragged... there is really nothing special about the onsen stuff).

    I agree with Theigno, though. In Part 4 we almost learned something, anything about her. We got the question of how did she get to the Digital World? Sadly the plot conveniently stepped over it. Then she died/almost died, so you know, that would be fine with me but isn't likely for Adventure canon.

    Spongebond and Oki kinda summed up how I feel. She's just ^$^#$Y^#^$@ bland and shoved into the plot. To be fair, Daigo was a lot like Meiko until Movie 4. I actually care about him somewhat now. Maki especially; I am really excited to see where her character goes.

    I'm not saying Meiko can't be good or won't be amazing by the end of Tri but so far she's just.... there.

    Neko mentioned its hard to make her special, but not really. There's plenty of other traits they could give her. With how they screwed up Sora's character (imo, she's pretty girly now) it would be nice to have had a tough woman character akin to Maki but less insane. Also, Meiko isn't the "mom" at all--Sora has long since been established in that role and it's been rehashed in Tri to death, for that matter. Ugh.

    Takeru did serve as a plot device (and honestly, mostly characterized Yamato, but maybe I'm biased here). He doesn't really shine until post-Dark Masters where he grows up. He's the child that grows up and learns to accept things like his parent's divorce, the death of a friend (Angemon.. although 02 kinda muddled this), and personal independence. Then Hikari shows up to be the new plot device--except Hikari is actually handled well in 01 (and got fucked over in 02). She's the selfless person who tries to do what's right. I love that she would put her life in danger for her friends and family and tries to bury her weaknesses. That's characterization.

    Speaking of the topic at hand, I really really hope we see more of selfless and strong Hikari; one that overcomes her faults and fears in Part 5.
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  5. #235
    Completely digital MasterOfTartarus's Avatar
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    i would like to calculate how much time passed between Maki and Daigoīs first trip to the Digital world till the end of adventure, it would be interesting to see how much time passed in the digital world.
    so 1 digi-day = 1 earth minute
    do we have any estimated age for Maki and Daigo? or someone wants to make a guess? for the time they been kids maybe as old as TK in adventure or a bit older 8-9years does that fit? and there grown selfs rougly around age 25-30?

    EDIT:
    a quick calculation

    letīs say they been 9 back then and are 25 now, taichi was 11 in adventure and is now 17 in tri, 25-6=19-9= 10 year between them first entering and the end of adventure
    10y=3650days=5,256,000minutes= 14,400 years passed in the digital world

    thatīs alot (i wonder if that would fit into my timeline lol)
    Last edited by MasterOfTartarus; 03-11-2017 at 02:59 PM.
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  6. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfTartarus View Post
    i would like to calculate how much time passed between Maki and Daigoīs first trip to the Digital world till the end of adventure, it would be interesting to see how much time passed in the digital world.
    so 1 digi-day = 1 earth minute
    do we have any estimated age for Maki and Daigo? or someone wants to make a guess? for the time they been kids maybe as old as TK in adventure or a bit older 8-9years does that fit? and there grown selfs rougly around age 25-30?
    Let's do a minimum and maximum. Let's say that the minimum age difference is that they are 25 now, and were 13 then. and that the maximum age difference is that they are 30 now, and were 9 back then. Time synchronized 6 years ago. So, calculation for the number of earth minutes that have passed:

    Max: (30 - 9 - 6) * 365 * 24 * 60 = 7884000 earth minutes, or 21600 digi-years.
    Min: (25 - 13 - 6) * 365 * 24 * 60 = 3153600 earth minutes, or 8640 digi-years.

    Which seems like a fairly long time :P


    (Related to discussions about time dilation, I once tried to estimate the length of time the adventure children spent in the digital world. The number that came out of this was kinda ludicrous (based on the times and time dilation stated in the show, everyone but Tai and Kari spent at least 2 years in the digital world, and they still came pretty close to that))
    Last edited by ijffdrie; 03-11-2017 at 03:28 PM.

  7. #237
    Ain't got no mojo... ontamon's Avatar
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    Someone in this forum (I didn't remember who) said that each Holy Beasts represent two crest and in the Adventure novel, four of the original chosen children digimon partner's became the four Holy Beasts. So, we already have story behind all 8 crests of Adventure children. I will assume that Maki are the one who hold the Crest of Kindness back then. But why she only got one crest? Her other friends got two. My theory is, since Loss talk so much about the 'balance', I think we will get Crest of Darkness soon. Maki hold two crests, Kindness and Darkness. Kindness goes to Ken, and Darkness will go to Meiko. That will suit tri part 5 poster and the title, which is 'Symbiosis'.
    But I don't like this idea. I prefer Black Tailmon and Lady Devimon hold the crest of darkness, it will look so good with Angewomon hold the crest of light. But, Lady Devimon is a devil princess, I think they will treat crest of darkness like darkness element in Frontier, they will make it belonga to the good guy (or girl).

  8. #238
    Ain't got no mojo... DazzleDream's Avatar
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    There's something from the movie that I can't figure out: Dark Gennai mentions that, because of the reboot, digimon that died in the real world get to come back. How would that work? Isn't their data still stuck in the real world anyway? Is all digital world data recalled before the reboot, or is it that the rebooted digital world somehow can collect their data? It doesn't really make sense to me..

  9. #239
    Super Moderator Theigno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DazzleDream View Post
    There's something from the movie that I can't figure out: Dark Gennai mentions that, because of the reboot, digimon that died in the real world get to come back. How would that work? Isn't their data still stuck in the real world anyway? Is all digital world data recalled before the reboot, or is it that the rebooted digital world somehow can collect their data? It doesn't really make sense to me..
    I would assume that the digital world simply recreates their data from scratch so that them going and dying in the human world never happened from the new world's perspective.

    ...also, don't call me Igno.

  10. #240
    Ain't got no mojo... DazzleDream's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theigno View Post

    I would assume that the digital world simply recreates their data from scratch so that them going and dying in the human world never happened from the new world's perspective.
    Ah, so they would be recreated and I guess the original data would still be in the real world then. That makes sense; thanks.

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